njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,760
|
Post by njhoya78 on Nov 14, 2014 10:41:58 GMT -5
The NHL permits players to be drafted and return to play hockey in juniors or college. A not-unusual course of action for hockey players is to play junior hockey (perhaps even forgoing high school hockey to play for a junior team, and even to billet with another family away from home), and then to play in college, sometimes starting their freshman year at age 20 or 21.
I speak from some experience here. My son was courted to play junior hockey when he was a high school freshman, with the theory that he could then play D-2 or D-3 hockey on a scholarship. My wife and I talked with him about the proposal and his reaction was "Why would I want to do that? I want to go right to college after high school." I think he also recognized that he was not likely to be big enough to survive without serious injury at the junior level, even though his hockey skills were otherwise tremendous (and I have no idea where they came from). He was right. As a college junior, he has topped out at 5'9", 145 pounds. . .and is very happy playing club hockey as a diversion to his studies.
|
|
hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,807
|
Post by hoyazeke on Nov 14, 2014 10:43:52 GMT -5
I am a fan of the either/ or rule, in which either you go straight to the league or spend a minimum of two years in school. I think that is a win/ win for both the nba and ncaa. The top tier kids like shabazz and ADavis will go straight to the league. The majority of the second tier kids would spend two years in school. Really, how many of this year's class do you think would have went straight to the league? Maybe 5-7 kids. Okafor, Towns, Johnson, Whitehead and I'll give you 3 knuckleheads.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Nov 14, 2014 10:47:20 GMT -5
I am a fan of the either/ or rule, in which either you go straight to the league or spend a minimum of two years in school. I think that is a win/ win for both the nba and ncaa. The top tier kids like shabazz and ADavis will go straight to the league. The majority of the second tier kids would spend two years in school. Really, how many of this year's class do you think would have went straight to the league? Maybe 5-7 kids. Okafor, Towns, Johnson, Whitehead and I'll give you 3 knuckleheads. That's definitely the best way to handle it. You build up star power in college ball and the NBA gets big stars earlier / avoids injury while not having to scout too many high schoolers
|
|
hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
Posts: 4,719
|
Post by hoyainla on Nov 14, 2014 11:37:36 GMT -5
Ive talked on here before about so I wont go into detail again but Kentucky/Cal are not doing anything illegal. All the illegal stuff is being done by the agents/shoe companies. Kentucky/Cal get the players the most exposure and Cal gets out of the way which is exactly what the agents/shoes want. Not really sure there is anything the NCAA can do to stop it. I am somewhat interested to see what happens after this year as there will have to be some big time recruits that don't get enough PT/exposure but I can see Kentucky winning it all and Cal leaving as it probably wont get any better for him than this season.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 14, 2014 11:44:10 GMT -5
. MCI hit the nail on the head with his observation that eliminating the one and done would simply drive most of the 5 star players overseas or to the development league. Fans would have to decide if that is a preferred option. Why not prefer that. Only a handful of programs would really be affected by that. It's not like we have a chance at any 5 stars/McDonalds under the current system anyway. It would just level the playing field while hurting UK, KU and UNC.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Nov 14, 2014 11:53:39 GMT -5
Ive talked on here before about so I wont go into detail again but Kentucky/Cal are not doing anything illegal. All the illegal stuff is being done by the agents/shoe companies. Kentucky/Cal get the players the most exposure and Cal gets out of the way which is exactly what the agents/shoes want. Not really sure there is anything the NCAA can do to stop it. I am somewhat interested to see what happens after this year as there will have to be some big time recruits that don't get enough PT/exposure but I can see Kentucky winning it all and Cal leaving as it probably wont get any better for him than this season. Where would Cal go? He turned down the Cavs coaching job last year (may have been pre-LeBron's announcement, but I'm sure he knew LeBron's plans). He's obviously not moving to another NCAA school, and any other NBA team worth jumping too is either unavailable (Knicks/Bulls/Clippers/Rockets) or undesirable (Lakers) or some combination of both (Nets).
|
|
njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,760
|
Post by njhoya78 on Nov 14, 2014 12:12:02 GMT -5
I'm thinking Calipari will succeed Mark Emmert with the NCAA. Seems like a match made in. . .well, fill in the blank.
|
|
calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,351
|
Post by calhoya on Nov 14, 2014 12:37:50 GMT -5
. MCI hit the nail on the head with his observation that eliminating the one and done would simply drive most of the 5 star players overseas or to the development league. Fans would have to decide if that is a preferred option. Why not prefer that. Only a handful of programs would really be affected by that. It's not like we have a chance at any 5 stars/McDonalds under the current system anyway. It would just level the playing field while hurting UK, KU and UNC. Well that would be fine, but if we are truly going to level the playing field lete's make many other changes. Allowing a kid to leave Kentucky and transfer to another school with immediate eligibility--outside the conference if necessary--would also level the playing field. Not many 5 star recruits want to sit out a year or share limited minutes behind an army of other 5 star recruits. Let's also allow all recruits to be released from their letters of intent immediatly if a coach is fired or leaves the program. Let's put some straightforward guidelines in for determinations of eligibility wihtout allowing for so much discretion. .
|
|
CaliHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,184
|
Post by CaliHoya on Nov 14, 2014 12:38:32 GMT -5
I think there should be a 2-year minimum out of high school to go to the NBA. It'd help all sides:
1) NBA teams wouldn't race to sign high schoolers and have too many busts to count like Eddy Curry, etc 2) Top prospects could go to the NBDL or Europe to make more money and focus on their trade full-time 3) Colleges would get players who actually do value an education enough to skip #2, and they'd have them long enough that they have to study some. Also, I actually do think this would screw up Kentucky's system - if last year, all recruits knew that Kentucky's fab five (Randle, Harrison twins, etc) were definitely gonna be there this year, there's no way they would have gotten another strong class to sit behind. This year only happened because the Harrison Twins, Poythress, Cauley-Stein, etc all surprised by staying back and the other recruits signed on assuming they'd be gone. With a 2-year rule, many of those would have gone to other programs.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 14, 2014 12:45:16 GMT -5
I think there should be a 2-year minimum out of high school to go to the NBA. It'd help all sides: 1) NBA teams wouldn't race to sign high schoolers and have too many busts to count like Eddy Curry, etc 2) Top prospects could go to the NBDL or Europe to make more money and focus on their trade full-time 3) Colleges would get players who actually do value an education enough to skip #2, and they'd have them long enough that they have to study some. Also, I actually do think this would screw up Kentucky's system - if last year, all recruits knew that Kentucky's fab five (Randle, Harrison twins, etc) were definitely gonna be there this year, there's no way they would have gotten another strong class to sit behind. This year only happened because the Harrison Twins, Poythress, Cauley-Stein, etc all surprised by staying back and the other recruits signed on assuming they'd be gone. With a 2-year rule, many of those would have gone to other programs. I disagree. The incoming class could have easily been flipped to other schools if they had really wanted to leave to get full PT. Calipari always uses the excuse of well I'm just doing this because of the "evil" one and done system but I don't buy it. There are alot of other things going on that are bringing all the 5 stars to UK. A Two and done wouldn't change that.
|
|
CaliHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,184
|
Post by CaliHoya on Nov 14, 2014 12:49:31 GMT -5
Well, if there's rampant cheating beyond what other schools are doing, then yes, maybe Kentucky would do well still with a 2-year rule. But in that case, it's only a matter of time before they get caught and Kentucky gets what it deserves. Yes, maybe it will be a long while (a la Cuse and UNC), but eventually someone talks.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 14, 2014 13:11:30 GMT -5
I must be missing something. How exactly can the NCAA force a student to stay in school for 3 years just because he signed a scholarship offer? What are they going to do if he leaves? Sue him? This^^ A rule like this would never work and I doubt the schools would allow the NCAA to set such a requirement.. The NFL has a 3 year rule doesn't it? MLB has a rule that if a kid goes to college he's not eligible for the draft for 3 years and I think the NHL has a similar rule.. The NBA has to amend its age limit to curb the one & done issue.. It's fashionable to blame the evil NCAA but the only ones who can really create a two and done are the NBA and the NBA players association. If you are looking for blame, blame the NBA and NBAPA.
|
|
|
Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Nov 14, 2014 13:15:36 GMT -5
This^^ A rule like this would never work and I doubt the schools would allow the NCAA to set such a requirement.. The NFL has a 3 year rule doesn't it? MLB has a rule that if a kid goes to college he's not eligible for the draft for 3 years and I think the NHL has a similar rule.. The NBA has to amend its age limit to curb the one & done issue.. It's fashionable to blame the evil NCAA but the only ones who can really create a two and done are the NBA and the NBA players association. If you are looking for blame, blame the NBA and NBAPA. Its actually the NBAPA... NBA teams prefer that the players stay more than a year at college, so they are more seasoned and prepared for the NBA. But nope. NBAPA always pulls the race card whenever that issue is being discussed.
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,972
|
Post by jwp91 on Nov 14, 2014 13:54:02 GMT -5
It is hard to argue why able players shouldn't be able to play regardless of age.......because owners and GMs aren't good enough not to give the wrong ones too much money?
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 14, 2014 14:13:43 GMT -5
It is hard to argue why able players shouldn't be able to play regardless of age.......because owners and GMs aren't good enough not to give the wrong ones too much money? I think it's about having a more polished, stable product. There's the maturity issue. Guys like Kobe have their growth stunted by not going to college and then end up in rape allegation situations. And then in Kwame Brown's case he was just mentally destroyed by Michael Jordan and was never the same after that. In terms of the more polished product. Those college media interviews are really good training for the players being well spoken. You can see it just with the Hoyas how guys like Sims, Hollis, Otto, Greg Monroe, Hibbert pick up the mannerisms of JT3 from being with and observing JT3 during those interview sessions in their 2+ years at Georgetown post game media pressers. That kind of practice and having a sort of mentor/college coach is invaluable and when a high school kid misses out on that and is thrown to the NBA media their speaking skills growth seems to be stunted. You look at Dwight Howard, or Lebron and their speaking skills are really poor and really haven't improved at all and that hurts the NBA since they are among the best players in the game. If you compare the speakings skills of the players during the golden age of the NBA, MJ (3 years of college), Bird (4 years), Isiah (2 years), Magic (2 years) they run circles around Lebron and Dwight Howard. That really hurts the league in terms of popularity and ultimately hurts the player's popularity as well.
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,972
|
Post by jwp91 on Nov 14, 2014 15:08:04 GMT -5
Professor,
I don't disagree with the benefits you point out....I just wonder if they justify restraint of trade. In my mind right now, it doesn't.
|
|
IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,526
|
Kentucky
Nov 14, 2014 16:58:30 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by IDenj on Nov 14, 2014 16:58:30 GMT -5
The NHL permits players to be drafted and return to play hockey in juniors or college. A not-unusual course of action for hockey players is to play junior hockey (perhaps even forgoing high school hockey to play for a junior team, and even to billet with another family away from home), and then to play in college, sometimes starting their freshman year at age 20 or 21. I speak from some experience here. My son was courted to play junior hockey when he was a high school freshman, with the theory that he could then play D-2 or D-3 hockey on a scholarship. My wife and I talked with him about the proposal and his reaction was "Why would I want to do that? I want to go right to college after high school." I think he also recognized that he was not likely to be big enough to survive without serious injury at the junior level, even though his hockey skills were otherwise tremendous (and I have no idea where they came from). He was right. As a college junior, he has topped out at 5'9", 145 pounds. . .and is very happy playing club hockey as a diversion to his studies. Junior A hockey kids leave home at 16 or 17 and billet in their respective new towns. At 18 they get drafted. If they choose junior they cannot get a scholarship. If you play a lower level of junior you retain ncaa eligibility. I've never understood why you can play tier 2 hockey and get drafted ( or American junior ) and still go the university route. Why can't you draft high school basketball seniors and they can choose to go to schoo, for how long, or skip college all together.
|
|
hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,807
|
Post by hoyazeke on Nov 14, 2014 18:45:56 GMT -5
Those of you that want to see us be able to win recruiting battles against the Kentuckys and Dukes need to pray for LJ having a season in which he has the option to leave. We need proof that we can put guards in the league and LJ should be a pro within 2 years.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 10:21:19 GMT -5
It's fashionable to blame the evil NCAA but the only ones who can really create a two and done are the NBA and the NBA players association. If you are looking for blame, blame the NBA and NBAPA. Its actually the NBAPA... NBA teams prefer that the players stay more than a year at college, so they are more seasoned and prepared for the NBA. But nope. NBAPA always pulls the race card whenever that issue is being discussed. Race Card? smh..What race does the NBPA represent considering they have members of every one?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 10:35:02 GMT -5
It is hard to argue why able players shouldn't be able to play regardless of age.......because owners and GMs aren't good enough not to give the wrong ones too much money? I think it's about having a more polished, stable product. There's the maturity issue. Guys like Kobe have their growth stunted by not going to college and then end up in rape allegation situations. And then in Kwame Brown's case he was just mentally destroyed by Michael Jordan and was never the same after that. In terms of the more polished product. Those college media interviews are really good training for the players being well spoken. You can see it just with the Hoyas how guys like Sims, Hollis, Otto, Greg Monroe, Hibbert pick up the mannerisms of JT3 from being with and observing JT3 during those interview sessions in their 2+ years at Georgetown post game media pressers. That kind of practice and having a sort of mentor/college coach is invaluable and when a high school kid misses out on that and is thrown to the NBA media their speaking skills growth seems to be stunted. You look at Dwight Howard, or Lebron and their speaking skills are really poor and really haven't improved at all and that hurts the NBA since they are among the best players in the game. If you compare the speakings skills of the players during the golden age of the NBA, MJ (3 years of college), Bird (4 years), Isiah (2 years), Magic (2 years) they run circles around Lebron and Dwight Howard. That really hurts the league in terms of popularity and ultimately hurts the player's popularity as well. What about Kobe and say Charles Barkley in the speaking department? It’s 100% about them trying to limit the risk on their investment imo
|
|