MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 23, 2014 11:44:32 GMT -5
I don’t get all of this consternation regarding the lack of commitments following MM. First of all it was bad enough that a few people would hit individual recruiting threads this past weekend which questions like “has there been any news of commitments?”. Not only was it too early to ask such questions it was also pretty annoying because it suggested that people actually had information but were holding back on sharing it. I think it should be clear enough by now that if anyone has anything they can share to the masses on these forums, they will. If for some unique reason they can’t share what they are privy to then there is no point in asking them about it in the first place, right?
Be patient. And that applies to commitments. How many commitments came about because of Midnight Madness so far for any program? It doesn’t always work out that a recruit gives a verbal on the spot just because he had a great time during a weeked visit. Most like to think it over awhile, many even like to fininsh up all of their oncampus visits or in-home meetings first before making a decision. Dozier, who was arguably the prime ’15 target last weeked, fits that bill. We knew he still had a couple of more visits to take including Louisville and one to his dad’s alma malta (which happens to be the state home school of Dozier). While I get why people would hope he would commit to Gtown once the weekend was wounding down, I don’t understand how anyone could have been realistically expecting that.
Let things play out. The key was for the program to put on a good show which the recruits could enjoy. It appears Gtown had success on that front. Most importantly the Hoyas perhaps gave themselves a head start for certain players from the ’16, ’17 and ’18 classes.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Oct 23, 2014 11:52:26 GMT -5
I don’t get all of this consternation regarding the lack of commitments following MM. First of all it was bad enough that a few people would hit individual recruiting threads this past weekend which questions like “has there been any news of commitments?”. Not only was it too early to ask such questions it was also pretty annoying because it suggested that people actually had information but were holding back on sharing it. I think it should be clear enough by now that if anyone has anything they can share to the masses on these forums, they will. If for some unique reason they can’t share what they are privy to then there is no point in asking them about it in the first place, right? Be patient. And that applies to commitments. How many commitments came about because of Midnight Madness so far for any program? It doesn’t always work out that a recruit gives a verbal on the spot just because he had a great time during a weeked visit. Most like to think it over awhile, many even like to fininsh up all of their oncampus visits or in-home meetings first before making a decision. Dozier, who was arguably the prime ’15 target last weeked, fits that bill. We knew he still had a couple of more visits to take including Louisville and one to his dad’s alma malta (which happens to be the state home school of Dozier). While I get why people would hope he would commit to Gtown once the weekend was wounding down, I don’t understand how anyone could have been realistically expecting that. Let things play out. The key was for the program to put on a good show which the recruits could enjoy. It appears Gtown had success on that front. Most importantly the Hoyas perhaps gave themselves a head start for certain players from the ’16, ’17 and ’18 classes. Good post MCI .. Though I do think it should have been put in the Hoya Madness thread..
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 23, 2014 12:13:52 GMT -5
All I'm saying is that I've counted at least 16 guards or guard like recruits (PG-SF) that have passed on GU. That's pretty alarming! I will admit I have high expectation and I also agree with shaking the bush to find quality recruits, but my patience is getting thin. We are the flagship of the Big East, we put quality players in the NBA but we also provide a quality education to fall back on. What is it about GU that is so unappealing? To be fair we have studs who just arrived at the hilltop at the sg, sf, and pf positions. If I were a '15 recruit at one of those positions I'd think twice too. On top of that we have a top 50 center arriving next year. The only position we are trully struggling with is at pg. Finally, we have to start winning. We aren't going to land many mcd AA's by losing to FGCU and following it up by not making the tourney. Winning cures everything. Agree with this mostly, but if DSR stays for his senior year and Tre Campbell develops... and we get someone in the '15 or '16 classes... I'm not even sure we can say we are struggling there. We've had depth issues across all positions, but our PG trend across the years in terms of starting is Jon Wallace --> Chris Wright --> Markel Starks --> DSR. Yes, we haven't always had an elite player there, and we've played to the combo for obvious reasons (talent + system), but the only time starting PG has really been a weakness was: - Early Jon Wallace
- When Chris Wright got hurt
- Markel's soph year where he shared with Jason Clark
That's it. I mean, yeah, we could've used some backup PGs then, but we had JW, who went to the Final Four, then a McD's AA for three years, then Markel. That's not so bad.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Oct 23, 2014 12:56:52 GMT -5
All I'm saying is that I've counted at least 16 guards or guard like recruits (PG-SF) that have passed on GU. That's pretty alarming! I will admit I have high expectation and I also agree with shaking the bush to find quality recruits, but my patience is getting thin. We are the flagship of the Big East, we put quality players in the NBA but we also provide a quality education to fall back on. What is it about GU that is so unappealing? I guarantee you we've been interested in and not had that interest returned on a lot more than 16, and that the number there is higher basically every single year. Recruiting is a game of numbers. Even putting aside lower level schools, there are probably 120+ schools that we truly compete against for recruits. I imagine we send out hundreds of feelers for every class, and only really strongly find mutual interest in a fraction of that for each position. Once there is mutual interest, we're almost always one of three to ten schools with similar credentials and different positives and negatives. Which all goes to my point that going 1 for 10 isn't that unusual for any program of our stature. Which is generally a Top 25 but not a Top 10 program. Yeah, it's not great that we are 0 for whatever (though defining what we are 0 for could be anything from about 0-5 to 0-200) this year but it's also kind of silly to not mention that our current freshman class grabbed an NBA-talent 2 guard in LJ Peak and a PG in Tre Campbell. With DSR very possibly staying four years simply because he's neither overly tall nor overly athletic -- and his most likely route to the NBA is showing some level of PG skills, there's not a ton of PG time in 15-16 (if he stays). Recruits do look at that, too.I'm not saying trust the staff. I'm simply saying that you miss on many more than you hit. You don't even see most of the misses. And you can't really evaluate until the class is fully signed -- and even then you should really see how their careers play out. Kids like Trier, Bacon or Dorsey aren't going to be scared off by kids in the freshman class, same goes for Dozier.. Honestly I doubt kids like T. Mann or Cheatham or K. Williams would be scared off either.. These theories read like excuses imo .. I fully get what you're saying about the unpredictability of recruiting SF but to me as much as you recruit players a staff should also recruit to roster need, the roster must have good balance in its make up.. This season the team has 4 "guards" DSR, JT, LJ & Tre, if the staff fails to land a guard for next season they'll have 3 on the roster.. That's not a good look imo, no matter how good the 3 are.. The roster has to get better balance or it could come back to hurt down the road.. I applaud the staff for looking heavily into Robinson and if he falls thru I hope they stay at it until they find someone they think can contribute at some point..
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 23, 2014 13:26:29 GMT -5
1. Some of these recruits may not be afraid of players individually, but I guarantee some of them wanted a place where they would be guaranteed to start Day 1 at PG or SG. Phrasing it "scared" is ridiculous; it's simply good business that if you want to be one and done that you have no competition. A senior DSR and even a freshman Peak can influence that for some players. The former definitely.
2. There's no doubt that they should target more bodies in the backcourt, which I am sure they are doing. Three true guards for next year isn't a good look. But (a) the recruiting season isn't over and (b) if we do go into next year with a three guard rotation, it's risky and it either means some minutes for someone like Cameron or Copeland or a walk-on at the 2, but it's not a bad rotation at all. I find it weird there's a freak out that we are targeting more guards when that's what we need.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 23, 2014 13:48:29 GMT -5
2. There's no doubt that they should target more bodies in the backcourt, which I am sure they are doing. Three true guards for next year isn't a good look. But (a) the recruiting season isn't over and (b) if we do go into next year with a three guard rotation, it's risky and it either means some minutes for someone like Cameron or Copeland or a walk-on at the 2, but it's not a bad rotation at all. I find it weird there's a freak out that we are targeting more guards when that's what we need. Add White to that rotation list. He can play 1 thru 5, if needed. What I would like to see is not just a "solid" guard; there are plenty of those. Since we'll have plenty of penetration with the kids on the roster, we need to balance that with very good to great outside shooting. From now on, GU guards should be equal or better outside shooters than post-injury Jabril. As we have seen with our offense, anything less leaves us exposed to 4-vs-5 offense.
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Post by HometownHoya on Oct 23, 2014 13:59:36 GMT -5
I'm hoping Bowen can provide some spot minutes at the 2 as well.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Oct 23, 2014 14:07:03 GMT -5
I don’t get all of this consternation regarding the lack of commitments following MM. First of all it was bad enough that a few people would hit individual recruiting threads this past weekend which questions like “has there been any news of commitments?”. Not only was it too early to ask such questions it was also pretty annoying because it suggested that people actually had information but were holding back on sharing it. I think it should be clear enough by now that if anyone has anything they can share to the masses on these forums, they will. If for some unique reason they can’t share what they are privy to then there is no point in asking them about it in the first place, right? Be patient. And that applies to commitments. How many commitments came about because of Midnight Madness so far for any program? It doesn’t always work out that a recruit gives a verbal on the spot just because he had a great time during a weeked visit. Most like to think it over awhile, many even like to fininsh up all of their oncampus visits or in-home meetings first before making a decision. Dozier, who was arguably the prime ’15 target last weeked, fits that bill. We knew he still had a couple of more visits to take including Louisville and one to his dad’s alma malta (which happens to be the state home school of Dozier). While I get why people would hope he would commit to Gtown once the weekend was wounding down, I don’t understand how anyone could have been realistically expecting that. Let things play out. The key was for the program to put on a good show which the recruits could enjoy. It appears Gtown had success on that front. Most importantly the Hoyas perhaps gave themselves a head start for certain players from the ’16, ’17 and ’18 classes. MCI - I think you are certainly on point. I suspect that some of the agitation surrounding the Hoya Madness recruits may be a concern that with some of the obstacles we face with recruits ( negative "Princeton offense" impressions, facilities, reduced conference power), our best moment with some recruits will be while they are hyped up by the Madness show; once they leave campus and can be wooed by programs without some of those obstacles, we will be back behind the 8 ball. Of course this is myopic for most of the kids we recruit - not to mention the fact that allowing them to have their recruiting process run its course, so they can be more confident in their decision, will help avoid the possibility of a decommitment down the road. We would all be excited by numerous commitments of highly ranked kids last weekend. It does not happen that way. Just remember that our recruiting is on a big upswing the last 2 years, and there is no reason to fear that it won't continue. Now let's just win a bunch of games to help it along! Hoya Saxa.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 23, 2014 14:31:10 GMT -5
My main concern on depth is simply having enough players where you have somebody solid in there (not necessarily great, but solid). For example, the fact that Caprio played any amount of extended minutes last year was a clear indication that we lacked depth, and that should not happen (obviously, in unforeseen situations it can happen, but ideally it wouldn't).
For that reason, I really do think we probably need a 2015 guard, simply because we do not have enough depth there for 2015-2016. Sure, if DSR stays and Tre Campbell is good, then we're probably in good shape because we will likely also have LJ Peak. That probably is sufficient if we land solid 2016 talent, but I think you need at least one more guy on the bench who can play.
That's why I think you need to go after guys like Galen Robinson. Obviously, Dozier would be the ideal person to fill that role next year, but you have to plan like you aren't. Clearly, we would all prefer to have a four or five star guard coming in next year, but if we cannot, I think we need to bring in at least one guy, even if it's a 3 star guy with potential. The other possibility is to wait until the spring and see if we can get on any top talent that either emerges this winter or people who decommit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 14:52:59 GMT -5
Galen Robinson @g_robinson1 · 20h 20 hours ago Taking an Official Visit to Georgetown tomorrow #hoyas
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Oct 23, 2014 14:55:37 GMT -5
I also think it would be nice to get a Texas kid. The kid appears to be an up and comer and it could get us in more doors with future 4/5 star kids out west.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Oct 23, 2014 15:00:02 GMT -5
1. Some of these recruits may not be afraid of players individually, but I guarantee some of them wanted a place where they would be guaranteed to start Day 1 at PG or SG. Phrasing it "scared" is ridiculous; it's simply good business that if you want to be one and done that you have no competition. A senior DSR and even a freshman Peak can influence that for some players. The former definitely. 2. There's no doubt that they should target more bodies in the backcourt, which I am sure they are doing. Three true guards for next year isn't a good look. But (a) the recruiting season isn't over and (b) if we do go into next year with a three guard rotation, it's risky and it either means some minutes for someone like Cameron or Copeland or a walk-on at the 2, but it's not a bad rotation at all. I find it weird there's a freak out that we are targeting more guards when that's what we need. 6 in one hand or a half dozen in the other.. "Scared" or "influenced" mean the same thing in my eyes, I still don't think any of the kids I mentioned earlier had that as a top or major or primary or even a small reason for not coming to G'town.. It's proven when you look at where many of them ended up committing to.. I did state in my post that I like the fact the staff was going after a guard for 2015 and I even made the point that if it doesn't work out with Robinson, I hope they continue the search.. Not sure I see where folks are "freaking" out about the staff chasing another backcourt kid.. Of course other players on the roster will have to fill in if some unforeseen circumstance comes up to one of the backcourt guys but we all know playing kids in spots they're not comfortable in hurts the team and them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 15:24:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 15:26:50 GMT -5
#25 White
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Oct 23, 2014 20:06:37 GMT -5
Getting back to Galen, how is his outside shooting? I don't think I've seen any reference to that here.
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Post by eastcoastteddy58 on Oct 23, 2014 20:29:01 GMT -5
It appears that I've stirred up the hornets nest and rightful so. Reading some of your responses tells me that maybe we've all been thinking the same thing but some of us have been a little unwilling to bring it to the forefront. But let me clear up at least one mess that I made, which is having everyone believe that my patience for Dozier has gotten thin. No that's not what I meant at all. Dozier is working through the recruiting process and I respect that, but it's true we've been passed over by some pretty good Top 100 "ball handlers". And "ball handlers" is what we need going forward at every position. I will say that my biggest disappointment coming out of Midnight Madness is not getting a commitment from Tacko Fall. Sorry, but I felt that was a sure thing especially after Wake Forest grabbed Doral Moore.
Sorry Galen Robinson fans for killing this thread, but I'm a little concerned when a name pops up this late into the recruiting season and we here at Hoyatalk haven't had the chance to armchair recruit from our computers. That's what we live for in the off season, right everyone?
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Oct 24, 2014 0:08:38 GMT -5
Kid's game reminds me a bit of Trey Burke and a lot of Parker Cartwright-Jackson. I know JT3 loves PCJ's game. Haven't seen much of this kid but if he's anything like PCJ I'm sold. I held out hope for years that Parker would grow 4 inches and become a Hoya.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2014 0:41:15 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2014 2:19:38 GMT -5
Senior swingman Zach Hamilton, junior point guard Galen Robinson and junior forward Kirk Berger made the state all-tournament team. The 6-foot-4 Hamilton, the leading scorer with 17 points, played well throughout the playoffs. He tallied 19 points in the first round and 15 in the other three games. Austin noted that Hamilton, an unsigned college prospect, reminds him of Paul George of the NBA's Indiana Pacers. "Zach is a little undersized, but he can play anywhere," Austin said. "Zach has a high basketball IQ, attacks the basket and hustles for rebounds." Robinson was the consummate floor general for the Wildcats, contributing 16 points, six assists and three steals. He was in double figures in three of Westbury Christian's four playoff victories. "Galen was the No. 1 player in our district and one of the better point guards out there," Austin said. "We're excited to have Galen back for another year.” www.chron.com/neighborhood/bellaire/sports/article/Westbury-Christian-St-Thomas-Episcopal-earn-5288551.php
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Oct 24, 2014 13:57:42 GMT -5
So if he shows up and says I want to be a Hoya this weekend, do we take him on the spot? Sounds like he is a gooder.
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