prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Sept 24, 2014 19:38:10 GMT -5
That he even misses dunks as we have seen time and again? He doesn't miss his dunks much at all. He does. Check the game threads.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 24, 2014 19:49:48 GMT -5
Nonsense. He has a quick leap that allows him to throw it down even when in close proximity to the opponent. It may be the one time he is actually reliable as a finisher because he is more likely to miss a point-blank layup. I'm sorry, but you are wrong on this one. It's not nonsense. Hopkins is a horrible finisher when it comes to both dunks and layups (sometimes he gets stuffed early enough where it's not clear what he is trying to do). It's too bad Hoya Prospectus did not cover last season, because they used to keep those statistics. For the record, in 2012-2013 Hopkins was 7/12 on dunks (28/56 on layups) and I doubt his number was much better in 2013-2014. 7/12 is really bad.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 24, 2014 19:54:29 GMT -5
Fun fact. In 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 the Hoyas had no missed dunks on many more attempts than last year. In 2008-2009, they missed one (and it was Chris Wright). In 2009-2010, again there was one missed dunk, three in 2010-2011, seven in 2011-2012, and 8 in 2012-2013 (5 of them were Hopkins).
So basically, in 2012-2013 Hopkins missed more dunks in one season than the Hoyas missed from 2006-2011.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Sept 24, 2014 20:10:33 GMT -5
III comes across as he is chomping at the bit. I'm guessing he realizes the talent and experience at his disposal and is ready to unleash it upon an unsuspecting world. The part about Gtown being so important to this new BE is something we don't discuss enough. That is so on point. But I'll take it a step further: if the Hoyas are to be the glamour team for the Big East they must play a way that attracts eyeballs to the tube. It isn't just about winning, it is about putting a product on the floor that entices college basketball fans and casual (no, not that Casual)sports fans to care. This team has the personnel that can accomplish that so it is a matter of just letting the hounds loose. It won't help the Big East (and thus it won't help the state of the Gtown program) for the most storied team to continue to be a squad rarely scores as much as 70 in conference games, rarely push the ball on the break, seems allergic to the thought of dunking and puts its center at the top of his key with his back to the basket as he waits for a teammate to make a backdoor cut. Going back through some games of the 2011-2012 BET I was reminded of a comment Doris Burke quoted from III which he said something like "our backdoor cuts are like other teams' dunks" because it fires up the Gtown players. No, sir, let your dunks be like other teams' dunks. The backdoor cuts are a key weapon and may please the basketball purists, but nothing wrong adding elements that please the majority of the viewers. Push it when we can and finish strong. If the Hoyas continually start finding themselves at MSG on a Saturday evening to decide a BE Championshp and they are playing a more exciting, uptempro brand of the Princeton, that alone may take care of any recruiting woes III has been facing. Completely agree with this. Jabril, Bowen, Hopkins, LJ, and Copeland to name a few have the speed and athleticism to run the break and pile up the so-called style points. Also have the length and athleticism to run a pressure defense, like that we glimpsed when Gregg Whittington was a freshman. Does not mean an end to the Princeton principles, but an addition.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Sept 25, 2014 1:41:17 GMT -5
That he even misses dunks as we have seen time and again? He doesn't miss that many. I loved how you edited your post after 2003's fact post, but I have you quoted in my post above at: "He doesn't miss his dunks much at all." Then you changed it to "that many". The question is how many is "that many"? You're wrong. It's funny. Obviously, 2003 put a lid on this.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Sept 25, 2014 4:07:13 GMT -5
He doesn't miss that many. I loved how you edited your post after 2003's fact post, but I have you quoted in my post above at: "He doesn't miss his dunks much at all." Then you changed it to "that many". The question is how many is "that many"? You're wrong. It's funny. Obviously, 2003 put a lid on this. I was editing my post before I noticed you had responded directly to my first version of it (by the way not the first time I made an edit while some other poster had already beaten me to the punch with a response or was in the process of responding). I edited it for the reasons I normally edit anything I write....I take a second glance and either notice grammatical errors or I come to a conclusion that the sentences I used don't look right. "Doesn't miss his dunks much" just looked like an awful sentence. Period. So I cleaned it up while keeping what I thought at least was the same intent. In other words my argument remained the same because not missing much and not missing that many is the same freakin' thing from a vague/non-specific quantitative point of view. Once I made my edit I noticed immediately that you had kept my original line alive by directly quoting me. What was I supposed to do? Go back and change my first post again so it would be in sync with yours? Now I may be in the wrong with my stance on Hopkins and 2003 surely makes a fine argument in support of what you detractors have claimed. But 2003's words had nothing to do with anything I wrote. As right now in real time as I stare at it, the original entry of my first post and the time of its edit both say 8 Hours ago while 2003's two posts both say 7 hours ago. So, no, you're funny. You're funny for thinking you had me in some sort of gotcha moment and proudly trotted out your flimsy trial evidence. Perhaps you're watching too much "Law and Order". PS - Edited for grammatical purposes.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Sept 25, 2014 7:10:51 GMT -5
The part about Gtown being so important to this new BE is something we don't discuss enough. I thought "we need [team X] to be good for the sake of the Big East" was the designated nice/backhanded way to tell another team that they're underachieving/terrible but also not DePaul? Also, there's no mythical style of play we're ever going to use that is soooooooo sexy/exciting/attractive/enticing that it alone is going to draw TV eyes to Fox Sports 1. There are such a limited number of teams IMO that you'd watch purely on style alone (IDK, like, the 1990 UNLV Runnin' Rebels? That one Grinnell game ESPN televised a few years ago and then Grinnell got blown out?). Beyond your team/conference, I suspect most fans seek out good matchups or highly ranked teams, so winning would sure help as a "style". Maybe it works in reverse, and people don't like to watch rockfights, but I personally kinda dig the Big Ten because there are always about 5-6 ranked teams clustered together at the top, so almost every week is a quality big game.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Sept 25, 2014 7:37:23 GMT -5
Possible, FL. But for me personally I won't watch the Big Ten when that is league is having one of those seasons in which the first team to reach the 55-point threshold wins. Doesn't matter how many ranked teams the conference has. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Sept 25, 2014 8:28:06 GMT -5
Also, there's no mythical style of play we're ever going to use that is soooooooo sexy/exciting/attractive/enticing that it alone is going to draw TV eyes to Fox Sports 1. There are such a limited number of teams IMO that you'd watch purely on style alone (IDK, like, the 1990 UNLV Runnin' Rebels? That one Grinnell game ESPN televised a few years ago and then Grinnell got blown out?). See also, Loyola-Marymount and 40 Minutes of Hell. The style of play I watch the Hoyas for has not changed since 1982 - Mad Defense, or as I like to think of it, G-fense! I know, I know, nobody wants to watch a defensive battle. Except I do. And we have consistently emphasized D in ways few/no other teams have. And this year our D has the potential to be very effective and exciting. Say what you will about Joshua in the middle, we will have length, speed and tenacity all over the perimeter and Smith will be a paint protector of sorts. Maybe not against zippy mobile 5s - I know he is unlikely to add the necessary foot speed to deal with the Opekpas of the world. But I take heart in the reports that he is much more athletic this year and I expect him to be a serviceable fist in the middle of the D. The rest of the guys are capable of greatness and I would not be surprised to find that we have a top 10 or at least top 25 D all year.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Sept 25, 2014 9:20:23 GMT -5
I can excuse the Hopkins missed dunks if he is going up strong. I cannot articulate how many times I have wanted our guys on the block to just take a step and go up for the dunk- offensive foul, missed dunk, or anything else be damned. What I cannot stomach is the weak, soft missed layups. In my book, an offensive foul where you knock over the other guy and COMPLETE THE DUNK is a foul well used, because it is still an imposing play that often makes the opponent hesitant the next time there is a match up on the block. But a weak missed layup...not good.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Sept 25, 2014 11:07:23 GMT -5
what you detractors have claimed. Stop the drama and your imagined division of posters regarding Hopkins. We all want him to be the best he can be, have an awesome season and hopefully reach the NBA.
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Post by BleedBlueHoya on Sept 25, 2014 11:12:04 GMT -5
Fun fact. In 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 the Hoyas had no missed dunks on many more attempts than last year. In 2008-2009, they missed one (and it was Chris Wright). In 2009-2010, again there was one missed dunk, three in 2010-2011, seven in 2011-2012, and 8 in 2012-2013 (5 of them were Hopkins). So basically, in 2012-2013 Hopkins missed more dunks in one season than the Hoyas missed from 2006-2011. I usually keep quiet on this board but I don't think 2003's dunk stats are completely accurate. I've seen the majority of Hoya games since my freshman year (1997) and clearly remember DaJuan Summers missing a few, if not several, dunks during his Georgetown career (06-07 - 08-09). But 2003's stats show only one miss during that period by Chris Wright. I don't have video evidence of DaJuan's missed dunks but I recall being frustrated when they happened because I thought he was a pretty good dunker. My favorite being his emphatic dunk in the closing minute of our Elite 8 OT win against UNC in 2007. Hopefully I'm not the only one who remembers DaJuan missing a few dunks. Regardless, we all hope Hopkins finishes at a higher rate this year. Looking forward to this season!
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Sept 25, 2014 11:20:04 GMT -5
Fun fact. In 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 the Hoyas had no missed dunks on many more attempts than last year. In 2008-2009, they missed one (and it was Chris Wright). In 2009-2010, again there was one missed dunk, three in 2010-2011, seven in 2011-2012, and 8 in 2012-2013 (5 of them were Hopkins). So basically, in 2012-2013 Hopkins missed more dunks in one season than the Hoyas missed from 2006-2011. I usually keep quiet on this board but I don't think 2003's dunk stats are completely accurate. I've seen the majority of Hoya games since my freshman year (1997) and clearly remember DaJuan Summers missing a few, if not several, dunks during his Georgetown career (06-07 - 08-09). But 2003's stats show only one miss during that period by Chris Wright. I don't have video evidence of DaJuan's missed dunks but I recall being frustrated when they happened because I thought he was a pretty good dunker. My favorite being his emphatic dunk in the closing minute of our Elite 8 OT win against UNC in 2007. Hopefully I'm not the only one who remembers DaJuan missing a few dunks. Regardless, we all hope Hopkins finishes at a higher rate this year. Looking forward to this season! DaJuan never missed a dunk is his life...
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Post by BleedBlueHoya on Sept 25, 2014 11:48:01 GMT -5
I usually keep quiet on this board but I don't think 2003's dunk stats are completely accurate. I've seen the majority of Hoya games since my freshman year (1997) and clearly remember DaJuan Summers missing a few, if not several, dunks during his Georgetown career (06-07 - 08-09). But 2003's stats show only one miss during that period by Chris Wright. I don't have video evidence of DaJuan's missed dunks but I recall being frustrated when they happened because I thought he was a pretty good dunker. My favorite being his emphatic dunk in the closing minute of our Elite 8 OT win against UNC in 2007. Hopefully I'm not the only one who remembers DaJuan missing a few dunks. Regardless, we all hope Hopkins finishes at a higher rate this year. Looking forward to this season! DaJuan never missed a dunk is his life... Man, it's tough to detect sarcasm on these boards. Fortunately google has a better memory than all of us. Apparently he missed at least one dunk his last year against Pitt at the 15:58 mark in the 1st half.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Sept 25, 2014 12:02:27 GMT -5
DaJuan never missed a dunk is his life... Man, it's tough to detect sarcasm on these boards. Fortunately google has a better memory than all of us. Apparently he missed at least one dunk his last year against Pitt at the 15:58 mark in the 1st half. yeah seriously it's thought but I do remember a stretch pre BE where Dajuan seemed to miss one almost every other game or so my memory could be faulty though
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Sept 25, 2014 12:20:16 GMT -5
Be still MCI's heart.. haha Very interesting thought, I'm all for it btw.. Love the Josh Smith observation too, this could be a very entertaining year.. I hope JT3 concentrates on transition Offense also, this team has a lot of potential in that area.. It should be fun. I agree on the offensive bit. Though, I'd tend to think that this group (any any group of freshmen really) would need more work on transition D. Early on, guys like Peak and Copeland probably are starting at a higher level in terms of transition offense than on the defensive side. We always get out in transition but it's up to your point guard NOT just JT3!!!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Sept 25, 2014 12:20:54 GMT -5
Oh, don't front. You know you are just upset that Rothstein didn't suggest that Paul White should start. You know me to well! haha jk What matters is who finishes strong most of this team can start but everyone cannot start!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Sept 25, 2014 12:23:46 GMT -5
It should be fun. I agree on the offensive bit. Though, I'd tend to think that this group (any any group of freshmen really) would need more work on transition D. Early on, guys like Peak and Copeland probably are starting at a higher level in terms of transition offense than on the defensive side. I disagree, the biggest thing to transition defense is hustling.. Get back and protect the paint 1st, no easy layups, Hustling should be a mindset.. Running transition offense on the other hand requires much more specific practice.. For some programs it's like their second offense. Tom Izzo spends a lot of time on transition offense, so much so each kid has a specific lane to run and no matter where they are on the court when the ball is pushed they have to hustle to that lane.. First player back on defense should be your point guard Tre Campbell does this well not so well with DSR running the point because he likes to get rebounds but we'll see how this goes... in a head up match during Kenner Campbell outdueled DSR believe it or not... but maybe Tre was more out to prove himself vs. the super junior...idk
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Sept 25, 2014 12:25:34 GMT -5
To your point as well Etomic, I hope that LJ gets after it on the defensive and offensive side. I can see him pinning shots on D like Pat Jr. and pushing the tempo and finishing on O. Then again, YouTube is my only basis for any of that. I can tell you all you need to know about Peak he does EVERYTHING AND I MEAN EVERYTHING!!!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Sept 25, 2014 12:28:45 GMT -5
He's a long 3 and D reserve. He's already an average rebounder. He looked lost on defense but in the freshman way. If he's dedicated to defense and is a poor man's Hollis, I'll take it. The lost on D part is to be expected. The too slow on D part is what worries me more. Whose too slow on defense? Not White, don't let him fool you he's not slow by know means remember he's 6'9" ...
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