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Post by Admin on Aug 26, 2014 6:28:06 GMT -5
Post pre-game comments here in anticipation of Saturday's game. Some questions:
1. What are your expectations for 2014?
2. What would define a successful season?
3. What could Georgetown do to improve this team?
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Post by puppydog100 on Aug 26, 2014 8:26:06 GMT -5
Expectations for 2014?
Injuries always play a big part in Hoyas season. We are playing above our heads, out manned, and out sized. Stay healthy, two wins, at best.
What would define success?
During the course of the season, the Administration and Athletic Department puts forth their vision for the future of Hoya football. Chances are, Hoyas will depart the Patriot League when current contract expires. We cannot be competitive in this league without a significant commitment to the program, and that does not seem to be on the horizon.
What could Georgetown do to improve this team?
Silly question. The answer is nothing. It's not about this team, its about future teams and the direction of the program.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,834
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Post by thebin on Aug 26, 2014 11:45:40 GMT -5
As discussed here often, the FCS alternatives to the Patriot league are too depressing to contemplate. Either because of distance, lack of names anyone at GU would care to associate with or often both.
The Patriot league is the only FCS league that makes any sense for the Hoyas. Killing the program makes more sense than the NEC or the Pioneer. Once upon a time moving to the NEC might have made sense from the MAAC- from which it is hardly different. But limping to the NEC from the Patriot league after an era that included a win on ESPN over Princeton seems like a harder sell for a program coasting on fumes in the interest/support dept.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Aug 26, 2014 18:00:43 GMT -5
1. 3 wins. I've got Sgarlata fever. 2. 3 or more wins. 3. Spend more money.
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Post by alumni47 on Aug 27, 2014 13:25:30 GMT -5
1. 1 win 2. No kids getting hurt
3. Move to a division 3 football program where they can compete. Where they can play to win,not play to say the school has a D1A football team.
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Post by puppydog100 on Aug 27, 2014 16:42:31 GMT -5
Alumni47, moving to Division 3 is not an option.
The bin, we cannot compete in the Patriot League, moving to another conference or going indy makes more sense. Killing the program is would be unthinkable.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,834
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Post by thebin on Aug 28, 2014 9:31:39 GMT -5
Define "unthinkable."
10 years ago I would have said it was unthinkable that the team would be hosting Harvard this year in a facility that has an awfully nice fence but is still using temporary rented bleachers and asking patrons and football players alike to use porta-johns to relieve themselves in the middle of campus. I could not have forseen that. The combination of having acheived the goal of playing the Harvards, Yales and Princetons of the world and yet having failed to improve the stadium itself from an F to a D in the same long period would have been "unthinkable" to my mind.
What exactly is gained by keeping a FCS program (in name only) so that we can host Bryant or Sacred Heart? It would still be a very expensive program due to the nature of college football. What is the upside? A 6-4 season in a league that doesn't matter? I'd rather see us go 2-8 in a league that does. At least there would remain hope of meaningful season now and again. We haven't been able to get enough momentum to build a very modest permanent facility with the promise of visits from Harvard and Yale and Lehigh and Lafayette. How much will the prospects of hosting St Francis and Wagner instead excite the Gtown student body and alumni base?
Everyone on this board understood the promise of the move up into the Patriot League. The idea of having a university that wants to see their football team play a Holy Cross or a Colgate which by proxy meant the odd Ivy league team held much appeal. Do you really think the rationale still stands for the Northeast or Pioneer league? Interest in the program is too low to sustain a blatent retreat into a lesser league. I would liken it to kicking out a patient from a hospital who is on life support to send him to a hospice and expecting a full recovery. What is the upside of that retreat? A couple of more meaningless wins per season that nobody will see against teams nobody cares about?
I remain friends with a number of football players from the late MAAC era and I feel pretty confident that even most ex-players would say kill the program before retreating into a lesser league. And by the way, can you really say that killing a program is "unthinkable" on that program's only message board which sees about 15 posts a month from about 5 users? What's going to be the source of the outrage that accompanies the death of a program is currently being left to wither on the vine from lack of support?
Leaving the PL would be such an opportunity squandered- after most of the heavy lifting had already been done no less. I would love to see the program supported they way it deserves to be after bringing the Ivies to campus. I would love to see them play in a big boy stadium, against teams that matter, with the resources coach Sgarlata needs in order to be able to compete. But if the realistic option at this point is only retreating back to a MAAC-esque league of nobodies and back to 3 digit crowds....the program going away seems all too thinkable to me.
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Post by puppydog100 on Aug 28, 2014 11:29:07 GMT -5
Unthinkable means to me, there are better options than taking the program off life support, and letting it die a slow death.
The Patriot League is not sustainable, not a life worth living.
Let's play at a competitive level. The Administration and alumni base to not want to dedicate the funds to upgrade the program to compete with the big boys. Let's make the best of what we've got.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,834
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Post by thebin on Aug 28, 2014 12:00:59 GMT -5
"Let's make the best of what we've got."
I hear where you are coming from but I guess at the end of the day I think football is too expensive to treat it like we treat our tennis or swimming teams. Those teams have very small numbers of athletes, far fewer coaches, and confine their travel largely to the greater DC area.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Aug 28, 2014 13:11:47 GMT -5
I remain friends with a number of football players from the late MAAC era and I feel pretty confident that even most ex-players would say kill the program before retreating into a lesser league. And by the way, can you really say that killing a program is "unthinkable" on that program's only message board which sees about 15 posts a month from about 5 users? What's going to be the source of the outrage that accompanies the death of a program is currently being left to wither on the vine from lack of support? Leaving the PL would be such an opportunity squandered- after most of the heavy lifting had already been done no less. I would love to see the program supported they way it deserves to be after bringing the Ivies to campus. I would love to see them play in a big boy stadium, against teams that matter, with the resources coach Sgarlata needs in order to be able to compete. But if the realistic option at this point is only retreating back to a MAAC-esque league of nobodies and back to 3 digit crowds....the program going away seems all too thinkable to me. It may sound horrible, but "kill the program in a dignified manner" is probably option 2 in my list of future directions for the program.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,834
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Post by thebin on Aug 28, 2014 13:12:48 GMT -5
By the way, don't be so sure that dropping into the NEC or Pioneer will lead to long term success on the field. By retreating into a lower profile conference with much less rigorous academic institutions there is considerable risk that we will be forgoing perhaps our second biggest recruiting asset after the university's reputation: membership in a respectable league with other good schools. We currently get a lot of very good high school players who are looking to go Ivy/PL or perhaps Colonial. These are kids with good brains who want to play big boy football but who also want a top flight education. This is the only reason why with a budget 1/3rd the size of Lehigh's we were one game away from the national playoffs a couple of years ago in front of about 10K people in glorious Goodman Stadium.
You think all of those kids, most with offers of one type or another from PL and Ivies, are still there in the mix if we move to the NEC? Clearly there will have to be a shift- we'll have to be recruiting against kids considering Wagner and Sacred Heart instead of Columbia and Colgate. Well....something's got to give. Those kids are either not good enough at football or have the grades enough (or often both at same time) to go to an Ivy/PL or else they would be. So presumably they won't meet admissions standards on the Hilltop. There can be no expectation that we will continue to grab recruits with better IAA fb prospects but who want GU academics once we step down that obviously. I'm not sure recruiting doesn't become nearly impossible without relaxing academic standards (a non-starter) once we're not playing in an attractive league. Or more likely we'll be getting kids that should be playing d3 at a Williams or Amherst or Middlebury. Then we're right back to 1-9 every year. But in a crappy league with no upside even if we had a great year.
Well the silver lining is there would be no more need to build a stadium since we'd be drawing 500 a game if the weather cooperates.
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Post by puppydog100 on Aug 28, 2014 18:44:26 GMT -5
thebin, the Lehigh game for the PL title was before scholarships. Don't anticipate that to happen again any time soon.
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cheer48
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 180
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Post by cheer48 on Aug 29, 2014 9:42:41 GMT -5
the university is breaking my heart in its attitude regarding football......as a kid I followed us all the way to the sugar bowl.....don`t expect that anymore but surely, surely we can afford a modest field and permanent stands and enough money to compete with the ivys and patriots......REALLY is that really too much to be hoped for
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,701
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Post by DFW HOYA on Aug 29, 2014 9:57:15 GMT -5
I think people should step back and realize this program is not being funded at the club level anymore.
How does football rank in terms of program budget among Georgetown's 29 sports? 2nd. How does football rank in terms of staff budget among Georgetown's 29 sports? 2nd. How does football rank in terms of operating expense budget among Georgetown's 29 sports? 3rd.
If Georgetown was an Ivy league team its budget would rank near the median of those eight programs. Trouble is, of course, the Hoyas play in a conference where the other teams are spending closer to the CAA than the Ivy. Fordham's football budget is now more than what USC, Nebraska or Penn State spend on basketball, close to $6 million. Fordham football even outspends three Big East basketball programs (Creighton, Xavier, Butler).
No one is choking off the program financially. Yes, the MSF is a major issue, but that alone doesn't drive wins and losses.
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Post by hoyahopeful on Aug 29, 2014 12:50:16 GMT -5
Hey DFW, those are some interesting pieces of data and I will bet they will surprise a lot of contributors on this board. Do you have access to the actual budget? I would love to see where the money actually goes. It's a shame the school cannot come up with the equvalent of maybe 10 full scholarships to split among 20 players. I know the accounting would put that cost at $500,000, but does it really cost more to add one more seat in 10 or 20 classrooms? Sure, room and board cost money...but does waiving tuition really cost money?
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Post by Problem of Dog on Aug 29, 2014 16:40:54 GMT -5
Hey DFW, those are some interesting pieces of data and I will bet they will surprise a lot of contributors on this board. Do you have access to the actual budget? I would love to see where the money actually goes. It's a shame the school cannot come up with the equvalent of maybe 10 full scholarships to split among 20 players. I know the accounting would put that cost at $500,000, but does it really cost more to add one more seat in 10 or 20 classrooms? Sure, room and board cost money...but does waiving tuition really cost money? I can't tell if this is serious.
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Post by strummer8526 on Aug 29, 2014 19:27:51 GMT -5
Hey DFW, those are some interesting pieces of data and I will bet they will surprise a lot of contributors on this board. Do you have access to the actual budget? I would love to see where the money actually goes. It's a shame the school cannot come up with the equvalent of maybe 10 full scholarships to split among 20 players. I know the accounting would put that cost at $500,000, but does it really cost more to add one more seat in 10 or 20 classrooms? Sure, room and board cost money...but does waiving tuition really cost money? Man, "hopeful" is a fitting name.
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Post by Admin on Aug 30, 2014 11:41:24 GMT -5
End of 1st qtr.
Wagner 7 Georgetown 0
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Post by Admin on Aug 30, 2014 11:53:57 GMT -5
2nd quarter series:
Georgetown: Four plays, short punt Wagner: Five plays, punt Georgetown: Two plays, GU fumble at its three Wagner: One play, INT in end zone, returned to G24 Georgetown: Nine plays (aided by two Wagner personal fouls), punt to W22 Wagner: Three and out, punt to G40 1:15 2nd Georgetown: Ten plays, 35 yd. FG at end of half 7-3
Halftime:
Wagner 7 Georgetown 3
Hoyas have 11 yards rushing at the half.
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Post by Admin on Aug 30, 2014 13:02:45 GMT -5
3rd quarter series:
Wagner: Three and out, punt Georgetown: Three and out, punt Wagner: 15 plays, 76 yards, 14-3 4:33 3rd Georgetown: Five plays, punt Wagner: Six plays, now at the Georgetown one
End of 3rd:
Wagner 14 Georgetown 3
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