TC
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Post by TC on Nov 25, 2014 8:17:04 GMT -5
A cynical person might say that the reaction was what was the Ferguson authorities wanted. Everyone knew this result might lead to problems - the Governor, the National Guard, etc - why make it at 9 PM?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 25, 2014 9:16:46 GMT -5
A cynical person might say that the reaction was what was the Ferguson authorities wanted. Everyone knew this result might lead to problems - the Governor, the National Guard, etc - why make it at 9 PM? I don't log in here too much anymore, but when TC and I agree, which is about 0.01% of the time (on these types of subjects anyway), I feel it's worth a post. That was a completely insane decision to announce this at 9 p.m. I am not offering any excuses for the reaction and the destruction, but come on. What's the matter? You couldn't announce the grand jury results on Free Fireworks and Baseball Bats Night? (they still have that, right?) However, I refuse to listen to the cable news networks lecture anyone about this abysmally poor timing. You vultures relished it and you damn well know it. You got to have about 7 hours of "special reports" leading up to the decision, and then several more hours of coverage of the chaos. I don't care whether you're MSNBC or Fox or somewhere in between. Executives, news directors, executive producers, producers and hosts were all loving every minute of it (I will sympathize somewhat with reporters, cameramen and crew on the ground who got tear gassed). So don't come on TV today and tell me any different. You all suck, you hypocrites. Anyway, I'll log back in again at the next blue moon when TC and I might agree on something else.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 25, 2014 12:56:30 GMT -5
I watched exactly zero coverage of this travesty. Too much basketball and football on. Knew how this would play out all along. Like Wilbon (who's never surprised by anything), I'm not surprised.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 26, 2014 1:52:45 GMT -5
Regardless of your views on the Grand Jury decision, this reaction is not acceptable. At least four local businesses who might employ people have been destroyed. Boy, didn't see this post coming. What's the point of posting this? Do you think it's going to spark any debate? No one on here supports looting.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 26, 2014 5:34:23 GMT -5
Regardless of your views on the Grand Jury decision, this reaction is not acceptable. At least four local businesses who might employ people have been destroyed. Boy, didn't see this post coming. What's the point of posting this? Do you think it's going to spark any debate? No one on here supports looting. I'm very glad no one supports looting. At least no one on this Board. However, pointing out that the reaction to the news in Ferguson is unacceptable is an observation about a fairly prominent national news event. Lawless behavior (both by those in and out of authority) needs to be called out wherever and whenever it occurs. The reaction in Ferguson is unacceptable, period. You may not like that observation but it needs to be made. The more it is ignored, explained or rationalized, the more likely it is to occur elsewhere.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 26, 2014 9:27:35 GMT -5
Boy, didn't see this post coming. What's the point of posting this? Do you think it's going to spark any debate? No one on here supports looting. I'm very glad no one supports looting. At least no one on this Board. However, pointing out that the reaction to the news in Ferguson is unacceptable is an observation about a fairly prominent national news event. Lawless behavior (both by those in and out of authority) needs to be called out wherever and whenever it occurs. The reaction in Ferguson is unacceptable, period. You may not like that observation but it needs to be made. The more it is ignored, explained or rationalized, the more likely it is to occur elsewhere. What's unacceptable is that police continue to kill citizens and are always exonerated. Always a justifiable murder? Come on. As the saying goes, a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich. While Wilson's testimony aligns with witnesses at several points in the testimony, it differs dramatically at others. Yet, given that, according to this grand jury, the public doesn't even deserve a trial. The point of a trial would have been to try to answer the questions surrounding this kid's death. A trial would have determined if Wilson's (IMO totally unbelievable!) testimony was flawed in any way. But now we're not going to get that chance. We're just left with a live officer, a dead kid, and a whopper of a tale, once again. That's what Ferguson is about, not the relatively minor, yet nonetheless inexcusable "lawless behavior" about which you posted. Where is your outrage about that? In that context, E, your post on "lawless behavior" comes across as somewhat petty and indifferent to the real issues. How about a post on the lawless behavior of the law in Ferguson?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 26, 2014 10:06:00 GMT -5
I believe that the totality of the lawless behavior of the police in Ferguson is under review by the eminently capable Justice Department and the profoundly capable Eric Holder. I will reserve judgment on those issues until that investigation is complete.
Assuming everything you posit is true, the reaction by the public is still unjustifiable. Period.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 26, 2014 10:26:15 GMT -5
Boy, didn't see this post coming. What's the point of posting this? Do you think it's going to spark any debate? No one on here supports looting. I'm very glad no one supports looting. At least no one on this Board. However, pointing out that the reaction to the news in Ferguson is unacceptable is an observation about a fairly prominent national news event. Lawless behavior (both by those in and out of authority) needs to be called out wherever and whenever it occurs. The reaction in Ferguson is unacceptable, period. You may not like that observation but it needs to be made. The more it is ignored, explained or rationalized, the more likely it is to occur elsewhere. Then consider your civic duty fulfilled. You have sanctimoniously pointed out the obvious to a group of like-minded people. In other words, FIGHT THE POWER.
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Nov 26, 2014 11:42:42 GMT -5
I'm very glad no one supports looting. At least no one on this Board. However, pointing out that the reaction to the news in Ferguson is unacceptable is an observation about a fairly prominent national news event. Lawless behavior (both by those in and out of authority) needs to be called out wherever and whenever it occurs. The reaction in Ferguson is unacceptable, period. You may not like that observation but it needs to be made. The more it is ignored, explained or rationalized, the more likely it is to occur elsewhere. What's unacceptable is that police continue to kill citizens and are always exonerated. Always a justifiable murder? Come on. As the saying goes, a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich. While Wilson's testimony aligns with witnesses at several points in the testimony, it differs dramatically at others. Yet, given that, according to this grand jury, the public doesn't even deserve a trial. The point of a trial would have been to try to answer the questions surrounding this kid's death. A trial would have determined if Wilson's (IMO totally unbelievable!) testimony was flawed in any way. But now we're not going to get that chance. We're just left with a live officer, a dead kid, and a whopper of a tale, once again. That's what Ferguson is about, not the relatively minor, yet nonetheless inexcusable "lawless behavior" about which you posted. Where is your outrage about that? In that context, E, your post on "lawless behavior" comes across as somewhat petty and indifferent to the real issues. How about a post on the lawless behavior of the law in Ferguson? You're wasting you're breath. I don't even bother any more. If people honestly want to feel like the real problem is the reaction of the citizens in Ferguson and not the fact that there wasn't an indictment, then let them continue to live in their fantasy world.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 26, 2014 12:14:15 GMT -5
As if there can not be more than one real problem. The police in Ferguson are being investigated by the USDOJ. Is that not good enough?
The other problem is that because they do not like the result if a grand jury proceeding, some of the citizens of Ferguson (and no doubt imported troublemakers as well) are throwing a dangerous and violent temper tantrum.
It is not mutually exclusive to point out more than one wrong here.
Is there any concern for the people who lost their businesses and suffered damage to their property?
Just asking.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 26, 2014 14:08:19 GMT -5
As if there can not be more than one real problem. The police in Ferguson are being investigated by the USDOJ. Is that not good enough? The other problem is that because they do not like the result if a grand jury proceeding, some of the citizens of Ferguson (and no doubt imported troublemakers as well) are throwing a dangerous and violent temper tantrum.It is not mutually exclusive to point out more than one wrong here. Is there any concern for the people who lost their businesses and suffered damage to their property? Just asking. If that's all you think it's about, then you're even dumber than I thought previously.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 26, 2014 14:17:39 GMT -5
As if there can not be more than one real problem. The police in Ferguson are being investigated by the USDOJ. Is that not good enough? The other problem is that because they do not like the result if a grand jury proceeding, some of the citizens of Ferguson (and no doubt imported troublemakers as well) are throwing a dangerous and violent temper tantrum.It is not mutually exclusive to point out more than one wrong here. Is there any concern for the people who lost their businesses and suffered damage to their property? Just asking. If that's all you think it's about, then you're even dumber than I thought previously. Okay. I am dumb and you are smart. Now tell me how the rioting and looting can be considered anything but unacceptable. Go ahead and justify it.
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 26, 2014 14:49:10 GMT -5
As if there can not be more than one real problem. The police in Ferguson are being investigated by the USDOJ. Is that not good enough? They're being investigated by USDOJ because everyone knew the fix was in.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 26, 2014 16:08:44 GMT -5
If everyone knew the fix was in, why such outrage after the decision everyone knew was coming?
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Nov 26, 2014 17:12:26 GMT -5
"Lawless behavior (both by those in and out of authority) needs to be called out wherever and whenever it occurs."
Lol yes, you're just so concerned with justice and stopping lawless behavior. It's so clear through your post history that you constantly point out instances of lawless behavior and tell everyone that it's unacceptable, no matter what the situation.
It's not the tiresome baiting you constantly do on this board, no sir.
Back to the actual grand jury for a second, this prosecutor is a disgrace.
Wilson said he was punched in the face twice, so hard that he was afraid a third punch may kill him. Yet the medical examiner found no injuries. If a prosecutor can't get an indictment on that alone, he's stupider than a ham sandwich. Oh, but that would involve asking Wilson about the inconsistencies and not acting like his defense attorney. Or, this grand jury went exactly as the prosecutor wanted.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 26, 2014 19:26:24 GMT -5
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 4, 2014 19:19:17 GMT -5
A littany of big govt power abuses in extremis to make any real conservative wretch. "...Eric Garner never had a chance. Or, to be more accurate, the cops never gave him one. Rather than talk to Garner, whom they approached on a Staten Island corner, police used force. Officer Daniel Pantaleo used a chokehold to bring him to the ground, and officers joined the struggle in an attempt to subdue Garner, whose only “crime” was asking police to leave him alone. He went into cardiac arrest, and died. That sudden escalation in the use of force isn’t unusual. In April, Dontre Hamilton was killed—shot 14 times—after an altercation with Officer Christopher Manney, who confronted him in a Milwaukee park after complaints that Hamilton was sleeping on the ground. An attempted pat-down led to a scuffle, in which Manney says Hamilton took his baton and started hitting him. Soon after, Manney shot and killed the mentally ill man. (It’s worth noting that, in his memo detailing the event, Manney described Hamilton as “muscular” and “impossible to control if you were one-man.” According to the autopsy report, Hamilton was 5-foot-7 and an overweight 169 pounds.) In August, just days before Officer Darren Wilson shot Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, 22-year-old John Crawford was killed by police in an Ohio Walmart. Crawford—who was holding an air gun while talking to his family on the phone—didn’t have a chance, either. In less than a minute, police rounded a corner, shouted a command, and shot him, hitting Crawford and sending him to the emergency room, where he died of his wounds. Later that same month, in St. Louis, Kajieme Powell was shot by police while allegedly wielding a butter knife outside a convenience store. By all accounts, including a video, he wasn’t an actual threat. Despite this, police entered close—erasing any space between them and Powell—and drew their guns, firing several shots and killing the 25-year-old, who also suffered from mental illness. A few weeks later, in South Carolina, Levar Jones was shot and wounded by state trooper Sean Groubert at a gas station near Columbia. According to the dash-camera video, Groubert asked Jones to show his ID. When Jones tried to comply—he was standing outside his car, reaching for his wallet—Groubert drew his weapon, yelled for Jones to “Get out of the car,” and opened fire. He shot several times at Jones, striking him in the hip and prompting a bewildered response. “What did I do, sir?” he asked. “Why did you shoot me?” Most recently, Cleveland police killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice after receiving a call that a “juvenile” was in a public area with a gun that was “probably” fake. In the video released by authorities, Rice is holding an air gun and standing in an empty park. A police car rolls into view—stopping just a few feet from Rice—and an officer jumps out, shooting. Seconds later, Rice is on the ground, dying. The common thread in all of these isn’t police violence as much as it’s the sudden use of force. The victims never have a chance to react. Instead, police enter, weapons drawn, ready to kill. And when they do kill, they almost never face criminal charges. On Wednesday a grand jury declined to indict Officer Pantaleo with any charges in the death of Garner, despite video of his escalation, his use of an illegal chokehold, and his history of racial bias. Likewise, grand juries declined to press charges against the officers who killed Crawford, and the St. Louis police department is dragging its feet in the investigation of the officers who killed Powell. Prosecutors have yet to make a decision in the case of Officer Manney, and while the Rice shooting is still under investigation, the odds are that those officers will escape charges as well, despite the fact that the officer who used his weapon—Timothy Loehmann—had been described as “unfit for duty.” It’s only in South Carolina that the officer is facing trial for his actions....." www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/eric_garner_daniel_pantaleo_and_cop_training_police_departments_must_explain.html
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Dec 4, 2014 20:44:18 GMT -5
The common thread in all of these isn’t police violence as much as it’s the sudden use of force is that all the victims are Black males.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Dec 5, 2014 17:26:48 GMT -5
A littany of big govt power abuses in extremis to make any real conservative wretch. "...Eric Garner never had a chance. Or, to be more accurate, the cops never gave him one. Rather than talk to Garner, whom they approached on a Staten Island corner, police used force. Officer Daniel Pantaleo used a chokehold to bring him to the ground, and officers joined the struggle in an attempt to subdue Garner, whose only “crime” was asking police to leave him alone. He went into cardiac arrest, and died. That sudden escalation in the use of force isn’t unusual. In April, Dontre Hamilton was killed—shot 14 times—after an altercation with Officer Christopher Manney, who confronted him in a Milwaukee park after complaints that Hamilton was sleeping on the ground. An attempted pat-down led to a scuffle, in which Manney says Hamilton took his baton and started hitting him. Soon after, Manney shot and killed the mentally ill man. (It’s worth noting that, in his memo detailing the event, Manney described Hamilton as “muscular” and “impossible to control if you were one-man.” According to the autopsy report, Hamilton was 5-foot-7 and an overweight 169 pounds.) In August, just days before Officer Darren Wilson shot Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, 22-year-old John Crawford was killed by police in an Ohio Walmart. Crawford—who was holding an air gun while talking to his family on the phone—didn’t have a chance, either. In less than a minute, police rounded a corner, shouted a command, and shot him, hitting Crawford and sending him to the emergency room, where he died of his wounds. Later that same month, in St. Louis, Kajieme Powell was shot by police while allegedly wielding a butter knife outside a convenience store. By all accounts, including a video, he wasn’t an actual threat. Despite this, police entered close—erasing any space between them and Powell—and drew their guns, firing several shots and killing the 25-year-old, who also suffered from mental illness. A few weeks later, in South Carolina, Levar Jones was shot and wounded by state trooper Sean Groubert at a gas station near Columbia. According to the dash-camera video, Groubert asked Jones to show his ID. When Jones tried to comply—he was standing outside his car, reaching for his wallet—Groubert drew his weapon, yelled for Jones to “Get out of the car,” and opened fire. He shot several times at Jones, striking him in the hip and prompting a bewildered response. “What did I do, sir?” he asked. “Why did you shoot me?” Most recently, Cleveland police killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice after receiving a call that a “juvenile” was in a public area with a gun that was “probably” fake. In the video released by authorities, Rice is holding an air gun and standing in an empty park. A police car rolls into view—stopping just a few feet from Rice—and an officer jumps out, shooting. Seconds later, Rice is on the ground, dying. The common thread in all of these isn’t police violence as much as it’s the sudden use of force. The victims never have a chance to react. Instead, police enter, weapons drawn, ready to kill. And when they do kill, they almost never face criminal charges. On Wednesday a grand jury declined to indict Officer Pantaleo with any charges in the death of Garner, despite video of his escalation, his use of an illegal chokehold, and his history of racial bias. Likewise, grand juries declined to press charges against the officers who killed Crawford, and the St. Louis police department is dragging its feet in the investigation of the officers who killed Powell. Prosecutors have yet to make a decision in the case of Officer Manney, and while the Rice shooting is still under investigation, the odds are that those officers will escape charges as well, despite the fact that the officer who used his weapon—Timothy Loehmann—had been described as “unfit for duty.” It’s only in South Carolina that the officer is facing trial for his actions....." www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/eric_garner_daniel_pantaleo_and_cop_training_police_departments_must_explain.htmlGlenn Broadnax almost made this list. He was indicted for felony assault instead. www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/nyregion/unarmed-man-is-charged-with-wounding-bystanders-shot-by-police-near-times-square.html?_r=1&
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 5, 2015 1:24:53 GMT -5
Curious silence on here following the release of the DOJ report, which included passages like this:
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Or this one:
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