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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Aug 14, 2014 21:15:43 GMT -5
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Aug 14, 2014 21:46:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the link Wilson. This seems like the start of a far better approach. As rusty suggested this is another good example of why, in a perfect world, the police force should be more representative of the population as a whole. I'd be interested to read an editorial from or, at the least, an interview with Capt. Johnson to hear what the impetus was for the change in approach. Fingers crossed that the new peace remains and that the investigation is thorough.
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Aug 15, 2014 0:10:31 GMT -5
And are you wearing their shoes or are you just that much more enlightened? Sharpton is not there to help those folks; he has a track record a mile long of being a self-promoter and an agent of negative energy. Being involved with Sharpton is just one more injury for a family already suffering. The secondary tragedy here is that people feel compelled to engage this type of charlatan in times of trouble. I don't pretend to be anymore enlightened than the next fallible human being. I am, however, a person of color and have personal knowledge of what I've shared. Your opinion of Sharpton is really beside the point. All you see in him is negative. I guarantee you that is NOT a view that is held by a number of people in the African American community. Dat's da reality. It ain't gonna change anytime soon. What's funny is, just like the Trayvon Martin incident, the family of Michael Brown reached out to Rev. Al to come to Ferguson and talk about this incident on his show on MSNBC to raise awareness about the incident itself. He went to Ferguson, called for peace in the streets while police officers were walking around with gas masks and sniper rifles pointed at protesters and randomly arresting journalists covering the scene. He did exactly what he we was asked to do by the family of the deceased. So what exactly is the point of this thread again?
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Post by strummer8526 on Aug 15, 2014 6:16:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the link Wilson. This seems like the start of a far better approach. As rusty suggested this is another good example of why, in a perfect world, the police force should be more representative of the population as a whole. I'd be interested to read an editorial from or, at the least, an interview with Capt. Johnson to hear what the impetus was for the change in approach. Fingers crossed that the new peace remains and that the investigation is thorough. It is better, and I'm glad it's working now. But I wonder how it would have been received if some law enforcement just went out to join the people on the first day. I suspect it would not have gone over so well. They're being welcomed now because they're a sign of relief from heavy-handed tactics. Without the heavy-handed tactics in the first place, do the people there appreciate any show of support from cops, or do they turn on the officers?
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 15, 2014 8:29:23 GMT -5
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 15, 2014 10:09:13 GMT -5
I could not agree with you more. What is your take on the rioting, vandalism and looting? Did people stealing and setting fires help or hurt the situation?
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by thebin on Aug 15, 2014 10:20:41 GMT -5
There are of course elements of race at play here but I think this is the umpteenth example of a much broader trend in America; law enforcement has become un-tethered from any restraints on their use of force if they feel slightly threatened, which it seems is the case constantly now. Police work is difficult, partially because there is a regular element of danger that is part of the gig. But it IS part of the gig and that has to be managed and not by grabbing for the gun/mace at the drop of a dime. If they are going to have our respect for doing a crucial and sometimes dangerous job they are going to have to do it without acting like thugs themselves. It is high time for conservatives to remember their healthy fear of a powerful state and recognize that at all levels the police in this country have WAY too much firepower and too much consent of the governed to use it. Cops are out of control in this country. They are far too aggressive too often. I knew that when non-lethal weapons like pepper spray and the like were introduced it was going to mean they were just going to use a weapon far more often rather than use a less dangerous form of violence at the same rate as before. And it has come to pass. Cops now think you can pepper spray anyone who is frankly annoying them whether from civil disobedience, mental incapacity, or just not being respectful enough. The police unions need to stop protecting rogue cops from real punishment for starters. And every time a cop kills an innocent, we cheer understandably when the family gets a large payout from the civil courts. Of course that money comes from all of us- doesn't bother the police when those payouts are made in the slightest. And the cycle continues. Civil payouts for killing someone without cause need to come from the police coffers themselves- including a fair share from the pension funds. There have to be more severe consequences for absurd situations like say...the LAPD blasting away at two Hispanic women delivering newspapers when they are looking for a single black male....because you know, they made the reckless mistake of also driving a Japanese pick up truck in Southern California no less. "....Early in the morning of February 7, Los Angeles police officers fired approximately 100 shots at a blue Toyota Tacoma pickup truck in which Margie Carranza and her 71-year-old mother, Emma Hernandez, were delivering newspapers. The officers mistook their truck for the gray Nissan Titan Dorner was believed to be driving. Hernandez was hit and Carranza suffered injuries from flying glass. The officers were guarding the home of a high-ranking police official. The city of Los Angeles agreed to a $4.2 million settlement besides the initial $40,000 compensation for their truck.[41][42][43] On the same morning, Torrance police deliberately crashed into and opened fire on a 2006 Honda Ridgeline of a surfer headed for the beach.[41]...." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 15, 2014 10:54:38 GMT -5
What is your take on the rioting, vandalism and looting? Did people stealing and setting fires help or hurt the situation? I think they are wrong, but there were arrests in a lot of those cases, at least from what I read. They are being held responsible for their actions. That's not true of the police so far. The fact that we're having a discussion about who is the bad guy here - the police or the absolute worst element of the protest crowd is pretty damning.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 15, 2014 11:13:31 GMT -5
What is your take on the rioting, vandalism and looting? Did people stealing and setting fires help or hurt the situation? I think they are wrong, but there were arrests in a lot of those cases, at least from what I read. They are being held responsible for their actions. That's not true of the police so far. The fact that we're having a discussion about who is the bad guy here - the police or the absolute worst element of the protest crowd is pretty damning. As I have stated repeatedly in this thread, if the facts are as reported regarding the shooting, the officer in question can not face enough punishment to suit me. There is not a hot enough place in hell for him if he did what has been reported. However, his criminality and the ham handed police reaction to protests do not excuse those miscreants who have chosen to use this young man's death as an excuse to steal tires, or sneakers or ATM machines. The people doing this likely care not at all about the death of this young man, but will wrap themselves in the banner of protest and outrage to justify their crimes of opportunity. While we are having a discussion about police conduct, it might be nice to touch on what a civilized citizenry ought do as well.
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 15, 2014 12:41:26 GMT -5
As I have stated repeatedly in this thread, if the facts are as reported regarding the shooting, the officer in question can not face enough punishment to suit me. There is not a hot enough place in hell for him if he did what has been reported. I wasn't even talking about the officer. I'm talking about the police response - aiming rifles at people, teargassing crowds, teargassing residents in their own backyards, arresting reporters, and even now their handling of the release of information.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 15, 2014 13:02:28 GMT -5
Okay. All of that is reprehensible and intolerable.
What about the questions I raised? Where is the outrage for the man whose store got torched, or the stealing and looting?
PS. The second sentence of my post spoke to the ham handed police reaction and you have refused to address the shameful behavior of some of the "protestors".
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 15, 2014 14:14:59 GMT -5
Okay. All of that is reprehensible and intolerable. What about the questions I raised? Where is the outrage for the man whose store got torched, or the stealing and looting? PS. The second sentence of my post spoke to the ham handed police reaction and you have refused to address the shameful behavior of some of the "protestors". I dunno, maybe because the real outrage in this case is about justice not being meted out, and most of the people involved in those instances were arrested, at least according to reports? It's amazing to me that the police released the robbery information along with the Wilson id, admit it had absolutely nothing to do with the shooting, and in their report state that even after the shooting they hadn't found anyone matching the description of the robbery suspects. Putting two and two together must have been some happy accident for them - hey isn't this the guy we shot yesterday? Let's use this to assassinate his character!
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 15, 2014 14:21:13 GMT -5
"What about the questions I raised? Where is the outrage for the man whose store got torched, or the stealing and looting?"
I would say that outrage at police behaviour in this instance IS outrage for the man who's store got torched. The police have to be called into account for their reckless hyper-agression. And as citizens we need to demand that our law enforcement agencies be de-militarized and that they understand that Editeding off or frightening a cop isn't a crime. We need to get rid of all manner of BS charges like "disturbing the peace" that cops use constantly anytime someone has put them out and there is no real crime to charge them with. They work for us, and they are totally out of control.
I can't think of a more obvious position for a small govt conservative to take.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 15, 2014 14:32:01 GMT -5
So, all of the opportunistic crime which took place was a somehow justified reaction to the police response?
I can just hear the thought process there: those cops shot an unarmed man and are acting like a holes. I know, I will steal some sneakers and tires and an ATM. That is a good response.
Please.
The cops being bad guys does not make the opportunistic miscreants into good guys.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 15, 2014 14:52:58 GMT -5
There isn't a single person who has called the looting justified. And yet the police's inability to properly do their job was the instigating factor. And I guess we're all a bit more concerned with the dead kid than some stolen Nikes. We need to ensure someone is always watching the watchers..... ".....Over the past few years, the idea of requiring that police officers make use of so-called “body cams” has gained currency. Note that this is quite different from simply allowing civilians to record on-duty police officers, a right that shouldn’t even be in dispute. Instead of waiting for a world in which every civilian records every encounter with the police, at least some students of law enforcement have argued that police forces themselves should move in this direction. Last fall, Guardian correspondent Rory Carroll reported on the small southern California city of Rialto, where the local police department has affixed small body cams to all of its officers. The results were dramatic. Carroll cites a jaw-dropping study, which found that in the year following the introduction of the body cams in February 2012, public complaints fell by 88 percent while officers’ use of force fell by 60 percent....." www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/08/ferguson_police_officers_should_be_forced_to_videotape_themselves_for_our.html
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Aug 15, 2014 15:51:53 GMT -5
For such controversial, volatile situation, I think it's pretty lame to come on here and try to stir things up.
Al Sharpton is not even on the radar of what's important in this. And when people try to bring that up, you try to shift it to ohh but what about the looters?!?
It's a really lame, pathetic game to play right now. What is the point of coming on here and baiting?
What about the cops tear gassing and then messing with the equipment of a major news organization? While you're waiting for "all the facts" to come out when challenged, surely you can be more outraged at that than Sharpton just being Sharpton. Normal people have learned to not get so angry and distracted by his presence.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 15, 2014 16:26:21 GMT -5
I questioned Rev. Racebaiter's presence and role here.
The discussion then moved in many directions.
My family lived in Dutchess County during the Brawley hoax and sat in traffic blockages orchestrated by the sweatsuit wearing slob.
I have not defended the police once in this. I questioned the motives and presence of a well known crap disturber and adjudicated slanderer.
Sorry if that hurt your feelings.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Aug 15, 2014 17:53:41 GMT -5
I could not agree with you more. What is your take on the rioting, vandalism and looting? Did people stealing and setting fires help or hurt the situation? As I have stated repeatedly in this thread, if the facts are as reported regarding the shooting, the officer in question can not face enough punishment to suit me. There is not a hot enough place in hell for him if he did what has been reported. However, his criminality and the ham handed police reaction to protests do not excuse those miscreants who have chosen to use this young man's death as an excuse to steal tires, or sneakers or ATM machines. The people doing this likely care not at all about the death of this young man, but will wrap themselves in the banner of protest and outrage to justify their crimes of opportunity. While we are having a discussion about police conduct, it might be nice to touch on what a civilized citizenry ought do as well. So, all of the opportunistic crime which took place was a somehow justified reaction to the police response? I can just hear the thought process there: those cops shot an unarmed man and are acting like a holes. I know, I will steal some sneakers and tires and an ATM. That is a good response. Please. The cops being bad guys does not make the opportunistic miscreants into good guys. This is for you... Ten Things White People Can Do About Ferguson Besides Tweet, or in your case, post on a message board. The language may be a little strong, but I'm sure you get the point.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Aug 15, 2014 18:29:47 GMT -5
I questioned Rev. Racebaiter's presence and role here. The discussion then moved in many directions. My family lived in Dutchess County during the Brawley hoax and sat in traffic blockages orchestrated by the sweatsuit wearing slob. I have not defended the police once in this. I questioned the motives and presence of a well known crap disturber and adjudicated slanderer. Sorry if that hurt your feelings. I'm so sorry that you've experienced such hardship in your life due to Reverend Al. Those traffic back ups must've been hell.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Aug 15, 2014 19:18:57 GMT -5
I could not agree with you more. What is your take on the rioting, vandalism and looting? Did people stealing and setting fires help or hurt the situation? As I have stated repeatedly in this thread, if the facts are as reported regarding the shooting, the officer in question can not face enough punishment to suit me. There is not a hot enough place in hell for him if he did what has been reported. However, his criminality and the ham handed police reaction to protests do not excuse those miscreants who have chosen to use this young man's death as an excuse to steal tires, or sneakers or ATM machines. The people doing this likely care not at all about the death of this young man, but will wrap themselves in the banner of protest and outrage to justify their crimes of opportunity. While we are having a discussion about police conduct, it might be nice to touch on what a civilized citizenry ought do as well. So, all of the opportunistic crime which took place was a somehow justified reaction to the police response? I can just hear the thought process there: those cops shot an unarmed man and are acting like a holes. I know, I will steal some sneakers and tires and an ATM. That is a good response. Please. The cops being bad guys does not make the opportunistic miscreants into good guys. This is for you... Ten Things White People Can Do About Ferguson Besides Tweet, or in your case, post on a message board. The language may be a little strong, but I'm sure you get the point. Nicely played. Must be lovely to have a corner on the market for indignation. I've never drawn an equivalency between what happened to that young man and the looting. That's your own paranoia my friend. I've simply said that bad actions by the police do not make those other actions acceptable. If that makes me racist, report me to Rev. Al. Maybe he can boycott my office for shakedown money. Otherwise shut your hole.
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