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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 4, 2005 10:43:18 GMT -5
After posting that last one, I thought it would be interesting to compile those in the Big East who are declaring early or are at least testing the waters:
Pitt: Taft & Krauser (testing) St. Johns: N/A Rutgers: N/A Seton Hall: N/A Georgetown: N/A WVU: N/A Cuse: N/A Marquette: N/A Depaul: N/A South Florida: come on! Cincinnati: N/A Louisville: Francisco Garcia Villanova: N/A UConn: Villanueva..... Notre Dame: N/A
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2005 11:13:12 GMT -5
Seton Hall: JR Morris?
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Post by BeantownHoya on Apr 4, 2005 11:43:04 GMT -5
Yes as mind-boggling as it is JR Morris has declared.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 4, 2005 12:20:16 GMT -5
Who is JR Morris? I went to the SH game and don't even remember this guy. Hasn't he seen the D league stuff on ESPN? Guys like Kirk Haston, Darius Rice, who are probably better then this guy aren't even in the league.
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on Apr 4, 2005 12:55:13 GMT -5
He was suspended from the team at the end of the year and he may not be able to get back on the team for academic reasons, so if he doesn't plan on returning to college he might as well put his name in the draft and hope that someone picks him.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 4, 2005 12:58:16 GMT -5
These guys are buffoons. The motto is becoming, "If I can't make it in college let me see if I can make it in the NBA".
JR Morris? Taft? Krouser? These guys have holes in their games like the Grand Canyon!
If they leave, it further opens up the NBE for us next year.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 4, 2005 13:03:57 GMT -5
JR Morris ... yes, he has no shot at the NBA. But Morris knows this, I'm sure. He's been suspended a couple of times for academic reasons with SH, I think, and I think college isn't for him. He'd be smart to buck up and work his arse off academically, but I think this is more of a "I'm going to play overseas, but I'll declare since there is no downside."
Morris is an athletic wing that can hit the 3. He's an extremely streaky guy and while SHU sucked, there's some potential there. Enough so that he could play somewhere.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2005 13:07:59 GMT -5
JR Morris ... yes, he has no shot at the NBA. But Morris knows this, I'm sure. He's been suspended a couple of times for academic reasons with SH, I think, and I think college isn't for him. He'd be smart to buck up and work his arse off academically, but I think this is more of a "I'm going to play overseas, but I'll declare since there is no downside." Morris is an athletic wing that can hit the 3. He's an extremely streaky guy and while SHU sucked, there's some potential there. Enough so that he could play somewhere. Yes...."somewhere"...... Good luck in Bulgaria, J.R.
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on Apr 4, 2005 13:09:22 GMT -5
These guys are buffoons. The motto is becoming, "If I can't make it in college let me see if I can make it in the NBA". JR Morris? Taft? Krouser? These guys have holes in their games like the Grand Canyon! If they leave, it further opens up the NBE for us next year. Maybe he is just too lazy or doesn't want to stay in college, but what if he really can't make it in college for whatever reason? I can't blame someone for all the problems they have because a lot of it is outside of their control from being put in unfortunate situations since they were little kids. I don't see how they are all buffoons. If college isn't gonna work they might as well take a shot at the league and getting drafted. If they don't get drafted it doesn't mean they are idiots or something, how many people get to play in the NBA? This is equivalent to the very highest level that anyone can get in their profession, how many people in general society are at the very highest level in their professions? Of course, some of these guys do make stupid choices when they could stay in school for a few more years and then actually get drafted when they have improved. You want to see them come out when they are ready and when they are good enough to make it in the league. However, some of these guys dont really have a choice, especially when they aren't really wanted back for various reasons and they are struggling mightily with the academics. I just don't think they should all be called buffoons, because who knows what any of us would be doing if we grew up in another person's world and were in their position.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Apr 4, 2005 19:42:17 GMT -5
I asked this question on another thread, but nobody responded, so I'll try again here. Wasn't academics the reason why Victor Page declared when he did?
I certainly agree that those who are incapable of making it in a rigorous academic environment (or even semi-rigorous environment should not be condemned for attempting to make the best of their situations. On the other hand, those who are lazy goof-offs (and I'm not making any accusations, as I have no one in particular in mind, other than someone who happened to be in my class, many moons ago) can reasonably be criticized.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 5, 2005 8:47:39 GMT -5
I thought it was academics although I think he declared before the academics became an issue as the grades obviously wouldn't come out for second semester pre-draft declaration. Did you notice some of the majors last night? A decent amount of PE & communications majors. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but schools like G'town, Stanford, ND and basically any non-state school don't offer programs like this (Miami is the exception). I think it is in part up to the coaches to figure this out when recruiting a kid. Iverson I think was capable of doing the work if he applied himself where I don't think Vic had the high school training to get things done at G'town. I would blame this on Thompson.
Some kids can turn the corner and apply themselves even though they didn't have great SAT's & grades in high school, but some kids simply can't get it done. Many of these guys assume they can get in anywhere with hoops and they are right so I am not surprised they don't go the extra mile in high school to get straight A's, B's or even C's. But the question is are they capable.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 5, 2005 9:14:42 GMT -5
I thought it was academics although I think he declared before the academics became an issue as the grades obviously wouldn't come out for second semester pre-draft declaration. Did you notice some of the majors last night? A decent amount of PE & communications majors. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but schools like G'town, Stanford, ND and basically any non-state school don't offer programs like this (Miami is the exception). I think it is in part up to the coaches to figure this out when recruiting a kid. Iverson I think was capable of doing the work if he applied himself where I don't think Vic had the high school training to get things done at G'town. I would blame this on Thompson. Some kids can turn the corner and apply themselves even though they didn't have great SAT's & grades in high school, but some kids simply can't get it done. Many of these guys assume they can get in anywhere with hoops and they are right so I am not surprised they don't go the extra mile in high school to get straight A's, B's or even C's. But the question is are they capable. The main reason Vic left school/declared for NBA draft was because he struggling in school, and with his success he thought he might have a shot in the NBA. He rarely practiced his sophomore year because they were trying to help him keep up with the school work. I wouldn't blame Thompson for Vic not succeeding with grades. Vic was a risk with grades just like previous players JT2 had recruited. JT2 gave them a chance and the proper support and they succeded. JT2 tried with Vic and it didn't work out. Its not his fault Vic didn't succeed. You don't have a crystal ball with kids. A lot guys who are deemed "not capable" actually do well with the right support in college. That was JT2's manifesto. Kids who aren't prepared with the right support can succeed. But, there are times the kids still don't.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 5, 2005 10:02:36 GMT -5
I still think you can size kids up pretty decently. Did you ever have a conversation with Vic & Iverson? If you did, there is no way that you could say they were on the same level. Iverson was clearly an intelligent person and I can't say the same for Vic. This is not to say he wasn't a victim of the DC school system, but kids at least have to be interested in academics and I would want to hear from an insider that Vic was truely committed to school. I don't think you would hear that he was. I know this was Thompson's system, but I am just pointing out that the system was not flawless and in my opinion, he could have sized certain players up like Vic at the outset and he was going to struggle. Maybe he saw this but also saw the talent the squad had an thought he could get one more ring? I know this is extremely negative talk for a hoya fan but I just like to spice up the board from time to time and point out what outsiders would be saying about our program.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 5, 2005 10:19:30 GMT -5
I still think you can size kids up pretty decently. Did you ever have a conversation with Vic & Iverson? If you did, there is no way that you could say they were on the same level. Iverson was clearly an intelligent person and I can't say the same for Vic. This is not to say he wasn't a victim of the DC school system, but kids at least have to be interested in academics and I would want to hear from an insider that Vic was truely committed to school. I don't think you would hear that he was. I know this was Thompson's system, but I am just pointing out that the system was not flawless and in my opinion, he could have sized certain players up like Vic at the outset and he was going to struggle. Maybe he saw this but also saw the talent the squad had an thought he could get one more ring? I know this is extremely negative talk for a hoya fan but I just like to spice up the board from time to time and point out what outsiders would be saying about our program. Wow! I'd like to know how you know someone is intelligent by a simple conversation. Please do tell me. I know a lot of people who speak so articulately and anunciate every word and syllable, and yet they are the biggest airheads on the planet. The Thompson system worked. The fact that he gave Vic a chance to try and help him out and get exposed to a college atmosphere is admirable. Thompson gave a lot kids chances that if you "sized them up", weren't exactly Rhodes Scholars nor did they have interest in school. But they ended up graduating and having very lucrative careers in the real world. In fact, JT2 was Victor Page when he first came to Providence as a young kid coming out of D.C.. If you saw on that ESPN special, JT2 said he had no interest in getting an education, all he cared about was basketball. But, after to being exposed to the college life, JT2 changed his tune and look how he turned out. But, by you way of thinking, we should just discard the JT2's and Victor Page's of the world. The fact that he tried with Vic and it didn't work out, says nothing about the system that Thompson used. It says more about society's "system". In Thompson's system, some kids may turn out like Victor Page or Michael Graham, but a heck of a lot more turned out like JT2.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 5, 2005 11:20:27 GMT -5
The Way, I think you know what I mean. I am not talking about pronunciation here. As a matter of fact, that is no where near what I am talking about here. I am talking about general social skills that it takes to operate in the classroom and out of the classroom at Georgetown. I can say that every player I ever met when I was there had this except Vic. As far as Michael Graham goes, that was way before my time. You can't tell me that when coach met Vic he thought he had the same capabilities on campus as AI and definitely not the capabilities of his other players that excelled on campus like Harrington, Williams, Reid, Churchwell and the like. We are not talking strictly academics here.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 5, 2005 11:33:59 GMT -5
The Way, I think you know what I mean. I am not talking about pronunciation here. As a matter of fact, that is no where near what I am talking about here. I am talking about general social skills that it takes to operate in the classroom and out of the classroom at Georgetown. I can say that every player I ever met when I was there had this except Vic. As far as Michael Graham goes, that was way before my time. You can't tell me that when coach met Vic he thought he had the same capabilities on campus as AI and definitely not the capabilities of his other players that excelled on campus like Harrington, Williams, Reid, Churchwell and the like. We are not talking strictly academics here. What do you mean by "social skills". Because Vic was from Southeast D.C., he didn't have social skills!? Please elaborate. Just because you couldn't communicate with him, doesn't mean he lacked social skills with others. I heard from friends of mine in D.C. that Vic wasn't the best student in the world. But a lot of guys that came to play for GU weren't either, but they turned themselves around,graduated, and are working in lucrative jobs other than the NBA. So please enlighten me about these "social skills" Victor lacked, because I would like to know.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 5, 2005 18:28:04 GMT -5
I am not really going to go much further with this as it is a waste of time. Did Vic get a lucrative job post college?
Did Vic beat a guy with a broom stick in a CBA game?
Did Vic get shot in southeast late at night doing god knows what?
This is what I am talking about by social skills. Some people always put themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think you can more or less get a feel for an 18 year olds demeanor and potential if you have been gauging 18 year old talent for twenty plus years. I think JT was asleep at the wheel or his motivation was to get another title ASAP when he brought in Vic. I am typically the first to support G'town blindly, but let's not act like JT, the school, and the support behind the program don't make bad calls from time to time and don't tell me that you don't know what I mean by "social skills" in this situation. Call it what you want, Vic was not the type of class act or class act in progress that JT typically brought in.
When was the last time you beat someone with a broom stick? Exactly, you would never do that because your parents taught you certain skills, let's call them social skills, which molded you into how you behave around others.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 5, 2005 23:59:02 GMT -5
I am not really going to go much further with this as it is a waste of time. Did Vic get a lucrative job post college? Did Vic beat a guy with a broom stick in a CBA game? Did Vic get shot in southeast late at night doing god knows what? This is what I am talking about by social skills. Some people always put themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think you can more or less get a feel for an 18 year olds demeanor and potential if you have been gauging 18 year old talent for twenty plus years. I think JT was asleep at the wheel or his motivation was to get another title ASAP when he brought in Vic. I am typically the first to support G'town blindly, but let's not act like JT, the school, and the support behind the program don't make bad calls from time to time and don't tell me that you don't know what I mean by "social skills" in this situation. Call it what you want, Vic was not the type of class act or class act in progress that JT typically brought in. When was the last time you beat someone with a broom stick? Exactly, you would never do that because your parents taught you certain skills, let's call them social skills, which molded you into how you behave around others. Please get your facts streets. Vic it was reported that Vic chased a guy with a broom stick. Were you there? Did you know that he was provoked or not!? As for being shot. Oh it his fault he got shot!?? What kind of statement is that. Is that what you call lack of "social skills". Getting shot!? You know how many innocent people get shot on a daily basis?! Is that poor choice on their parts because they chose to live life and are harmed by the actions of others that they can't control. That is an asinine statement. Vic had his problems, but so have a lot of others that came through GU. But to sit here and criticize Thompson for giving him a chance is wrong. You would be amazed about the pasts of former GU players who have graduate whom you thought were "class acts". I remember when Iverson first came to GU, he said "my teammates have been through a whole lot more than me". Look at Iverson's past before he came to G'town. It was worst than Page's before he came to GU. So JT2 should have turned down Iverson because he would have amounted to nothing,right? JT2 should have kicked Alonzo Mourning out for hanging out with a reputed drug kingpin, because by "gauging", Mourning should have been left out in the cold, because he must be into drugs, right!? I could go on and on. I find what you are saying unbelievable. Like I said before, you don't have crystal balls with people, particularly young people. The fact that JT2 impacted the lives of so many young men who normally would not have been given a chance is amazing. You can't judge a book by its cover, and then simply predict the future. Life doesn't work that way.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Apr 6, 2005 0:11:02 GMT -5
Yeah, hanging out in southeast, he was just asking to get shot.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 6, 2005 1:05:48 GMT -5
Please get your facts streets. Vic it was reported that Vic chased a guy with a broom stick. Were you there? Did you know that he was provoked or not!? I've seen the video on TV, on one of those "Sports Scariest Moments" type shows, and its absolutely ridiculous. Provoked or not, you don't pick up something and start wielding it as a weapon... If you're attacked (and I cant remember how the fight started), defending yourself is one thing.... but Page and the guy started swinging, and then after they had been pushed apart, Page runs over and grabs the broom and starts swinging it like a maniac. It was a terrible scene, one witnessed live by many women and children . I was extremely embarassed when I found out that Page was from Georgetown . As for being shot.... we really don't know enough to decide one way or another if he had put himself in a bad position, or if he was just an innocent victim... at least not from the articles Ive read. Nonetheless, the guy's character has been shown to be poor in the past, so it wouldnt be SURPRISING if he'd put himself in a bad position before getting shot, even though were not certain. I think thats what CHH was getting at. C'mon guys. Please show at least a LITTLE objectivity here. Let's call a spade a spade. Page was a bad seed, and there was evidence for that before he came here. JT2 gambled, hoping it was an isolated incident and hoping that Georgetown would have a positive influence on the kid, which is a noble goal..... but it didnt work out, and Page, at least in my opinion, is a disgrace to Georgetown.
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