Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 11:54:46 GMT -5
You gotta love Hoyatalk, the kid hasn’t even played a Kenner league game and you guys are already fitting him for his Draft Day Suit… yikes
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justsaying
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Post by justsaying on Apr 17, 2014 12:06:24 GMT -5
Agreed (sorry meant to include previous post from HoyaSaxa2003); If you are seeking championships then you must get the best available talent that will accept your offer be a part of the GU lore. If that talent becomes a 1 & done then that is part of today's competition landscape. If you are a fan of your team just hopefully making the tourney to just to get a round or maybe two without being a serious contender then yes you may want to avoid talent that could possibly be a 1 & done or talent that could possibly develop rapidly. If a program is successful enough and make deep runs (in tourney) long enough then today's athletes see that as an opportunity for personal upward mobility which most seek (NBA) and would not mind being a part of that.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 17, 2014 12:22:18 GMT -5
Obviously, the biggest misses are the top center prospects. For the last two seasons, BigManU has had to fill in with Hayes, Moses and Josh (plus PFs Hopkins and Lubick). Whatever recruiting strategy the staff had been using in regards to true centers needs to change. With the change in staff, it’s encouraging to see, or at least it seems, that the net has been cast far and wide. The lesson should have been learned: the staff cannot focus on just one or two of the top bigs. But, yet again, the staff at BigManU has whiffed on bigs for 2014 and finds itself needing to scramble. The staff never did this despite how many times folks on this board would love to spread that revisionist bit of history. Sure I guess in some years their nets were not spread as wide as they could have been, but to suggest the staff only targeted a couple of guys and left it at that is absurd. What some don't seem to accept is that the Hoyas had a couple of relatively "bad" years in recruiting in which they whiffed on the vast majority of their primary targets. Period. End of story. Let it go already. Who else did the staff truly target in the 2014 class other than Elbert & Onuaku for the 5 spot? I can't let it go for a lot of the reasons posted in this thread.. The great majority of the posters on the board feel that the team is shaping up very well to make a 2 or 3 year run starting next season but the future of the 5 spot is very much up in the air, this isn't hyperbole or exaggeration imo, it's just fact. It'll be a shame to see DSR's Sr year compromised due to weak center play..
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 17, 2014 12:27:39 GMT -5
You gotta love Hoyatalk, the kid hasn’t even played a Kenner league game and you guys are already fitting him for his Draft Day Suit… yikes Just looked into it a bit--recruits ranked b/w 10-20 by ESPN aren't generally one and done. In fact, basically one guy from that range goes pro a year. Here are the ESPN #10-20 recruits from the past 3 years that got drafted after their freshman year: 2012Archie Goodwin (ranked #15, drafted 29th) 2011Tony Wroten (ranked #17, drafted 25th) 2010Cory Joseph (ranked #16, drafted 29th)
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Post by daymondmyles on Apr 17, 2014 13:05:01 GMT -5
Eto, we went after Okafor, Myles turner, and Towns hard and then had others as backups like Chukwu, Lattin, etc
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 17, 2014 13:42:19 GMT -5
I think you have to cut the staff some slack on 2014 bigs because while the current staff theoretically was around and could have landed somebody (Broadus, especially), much of the legwork that is needed on recruiting these types of guys would have had to happen before Sutton and Hardy came on board.
Granted, that will not be the case for 2015, and I expect the staff to land center talent for 2015. This is a lot of "ifs," but if we can land a very solid 2015 center, and Josh Smith can give us a good effort this year, we will have largely circumvented the poor recruiting at the position. Right now, I think that's the best case scenario, though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 14:21:52 GMT -5
Eto, we went after Okafor, Myles turner, and Towns hard and then had others as backups like Chukwu, Lattin, etc I gotta go with Eto on this one, think it’s a stretch to say we went after any of those kids hard except for maybe Lattin. Myles Turner blew up at an NY2La event last spring in a matchup vs Kevon Looney. RDF was in the house that day and he was kind enough to share some really great info on some of the prospects at the event. When I spoke with him he told me how good Turner looked and that he had basically played Looney to a standstill. He commented on how this kid was about to be the next big thing and every school was about to be on him. He quickly noted how perfect a fit he was for our system and that he expected GTOWN to start recruiting the kid because A Hoyas Assistant was also at the game to scout Looney. It took probably 2 months for the Hoyas to reach out and by then he probably had got a recruiting letter from the College of Kiev by that point. Joel Embid had ties to Joe Toumou, we should have been on that kid like white on rice, never happened. If you look at the top 2014 centers according to 247 the only one I would say we recruited heavily was Robinson and Onuaku (Late) 247sports.com/Season/2014-Basketball/RecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&Position=C
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Post by daymondmyles on Apr 17, 2014 14:25:53 GMT -5
Disagree. May give you Turner because we were on him late but we had Towns in for a visit and offered him his freshman year. We also went hard after Okafor early but were cut out early in the process.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 14:38:30 GMT -5
Disagree. May give you Turner because we were on him late but we had Towns in for a visit and offered him his freshman year. We also went hard after Okafor early but were cut out early in the process. Still even if you consider those guys that’s not exactly a wide net. Compare that with how Bro Hardy and Sutt are approaching the 2015 Class. Multiple visits to Doral Moore, Rabb, Commanche, Kapita, Dickerson, Govan etc, and early offers out to all.
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Post by daymondmyles on Apr 17, 2014 14:46:52 GMT -5
Fair enough and I think our approach to 2014 was schizophrenic anyway due to the change in staff midway. We definitely took no for an answer too easily too.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Apr 17, 2014 14:51:26 GMT -5
Eto, we went after Okafor, Myles turner, and Towns hard and then had others as backups like Chukwu, Lattin, etc I gotta go with Eto on this one, think it’s a stretch to say we went after any of those kids hard except for maybe Lattin. Myles Turner blew up at an NY2La event last spring in a matchup vs Kevon Looney. RDF was in the house that day and he was kind enough to share some really great info on some of the prospects at the event. When I spoke with him he told me how good Turner looked and that he had basically played Looney to a standstill. He commented on how this kid was about to be the next big thing and every school was about to be on him. He quickly noted how perfect a fit he was for our system and that he expected GTOWN to start recruiting the kid because A Hoyas Assistant was also at the game to scout Looney. It took probably 2 months for the Hoyas to reach out and by then he probably had got a recruiting letter from the College of Kiev by that point. Joel Embid had ties to Joe Toumou, we should have been on that kid like white on rice, never happened. If you look at the top 2014 centers according to 247 the only one I would say we recruited heavily was Robinson and Onuaku (Late) 247sports.com/Season/2014-Basketball/RecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&Position=CWhile Myles Turner might have "blown" up last spring he was plenty known about by those around Texas early in his junior year. That is when the Big 12/Texas schools started coming at him hard (Kansas, SMU, Texas etc.). When we came it was too late but I don't think it would've mattered as there is a strong family dynamic there and I don't think there was any chance he would go that far from home. Our most recent successful bigs have been developed, not huge HS recruits. The problem is Moses never developed and Tyler Adams had his health problem. Hop and Lubick were never gonna be those traditional bigs that we turn into NBA players. The jury is still out on Hayes and we can only hope for the best. I will say if we don't get at least a decent big out of this 2015 class I will be highly disappointed.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 17, 2014 14:59:10 GMT -5
Eto, we went after Okafor, Myles turner, and Towns hard and then had others as backups like Chukwu, Lattin, etc All due respect Dmyles but Towns has been committed to Kentucky since his soph year and like Okafor the staff never got any real traction there. As for Turner they were wayyyy late to the dance and again never got any traction.. I don't remember any hard push for Chukwu at all... None of the recruiting sites show any offer to him from G'town and I don't think he visited either.. Lattin, I will give you though..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 15:20:23 GMT -5
I gotta go with Eto on this one, think it’s a stretch to say we went after any of those kids hard except for maybe Lattin. Myles Turner blew up at an NY2La event last spring in a matchup vs Kevon Looney. RDF was in the house that day and he was kind enough to share some really great info on some of the prospects at the event. When I spoke with him he told me how good Turner looked and that he had basically played Looney to a standstill. He commented on how this kid was about to be the next big thing and every school was about to be on him. He quickly noted how perfect a fit he was for our system and that he expected GTOWN to start recruiting the kid because A Hoyas Assistant was also at the game to scout Looney. It took probably 2 months for the Hoyas to reach out and by then he probably had got a recruiting letter from the College of Kiev by that point. Joel Embid had ties to Joe Toumou, we should have been on that kid like white on rice, never happened. If you look at the top 2014 centers according to 247 the only one I would say we recruited heavily was Robinson and Onuaku (Late) 247sports.com/Season/2014-Basketball/RecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&Position=CWhile Myles Turner might have "blown" up last spring he was plenty known about by those around Texas early in his junior year. That is when the Big 12/Texas schools started coming at him hard (Kansas, SMU, Texas etc.). When we came it was too late but I don't think it would've mattered as there is a strong family dynamic there and I don't think there was any chance he would go that far from home. Our most recent successful bigs have been developed, not huge HS recruits. The problem is Moses never developed and Tyler Adams had his health problem. Hop and Lubick were never gonna be those traditional bigs that we turn into NBA players. The jury is still out on Hayes and we can only hope for the best. I will say if we don't get at least a decent big out of this 2015 class I will be highly disappointed. The Turner story speaks to a bigger problem in my view and directly relates to the topic. It’s the fact that an assistant could watch a game and see a talent like that, perform that well, at that size, with that skill level, and not have 3 on the phone like "Coach we gotta get in on this kid now” was the problem. It matters little what their chances were because at that point GTown had no idea of his background. The point is they should have found out and found out quickly. I just don’t understand how you could watch Turner and not think ‘This is the type of Center we need”. For whatever reason it didn’t happen. Maybe the coach new he was on his way out and was just in a holding pattern until that happened but it wasn’t really an isolated incident.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 15:22:19 GMT -5
Fair enough and I think our approach to 2014 was schizophrenic anyway due to the change in staff midway. We definitely took no for an answer too easily too. Very true.. Also think a lot of time was spent just getting the most talented kids on their Board which probably was written in etcha-sketch due to the staff changes… When you need to upgrade talent you just grab the best players you can regardless of position and I think to some extent outside PG that was their focus.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Apr 17, 2014 16:01:56 GMT -5
Why do we keep talking about what a previous staff regime did that's been entirely replaced as though it's a current problem? We know the current staff, with relatively little time to take over, brought a beast of a class and you can see the wide range of targets for future classes. and yet here's hoyatalk, debating whether or not people who aren't even employed by the university any more were good or bad recruiters.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 17, 2014 17:13:38 GMT -5
Actually, quickly checking, you really shouldn't use Basketball-reference at all. For example in the 2010 you linked, basketball reference used only 5 sources. In the real RSCI, the RSCI used 6 different sources. The lists even under 100 aren't the same. So small differences under 100. Over 100, though, it's pretty much way over-reliant on Rivals, which is the only one doing a 150. True on using rscihoops and that's why I posted it first, and as you say they're close enough. Basketball reference is a good tool to follow how the players went in the draft vs. their ranking.
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Post by eastcoastteddy58 on Apr 17, 2014 18:47:59 GMT -5
I'm looking at numbers for the 5 position for 2015. In Hoyatalk best opinion, if we got a four star or a five star center could we afford to take a project center as well going forward? 2015-2016 would be (Hayes, 4/5 star center, and a project 3 star center). IMO there are less available 4/5 star centers to choose from, 2016 maybe another story.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 19, 2014 15:28:58 GMT -5
Obviously, the biggest misses are the top center prospects. For the last two seasons, BigManU has had to fill in with Hayes, Moses and Josh (plus PFs Hopkins and Lubick). Whatever recruiting strategy the staff had been using in regards to true centers needs to change. With the change in staff, it’s encouraging to see, or at least it seems, that the net has been cast far and wide. The lesson should have been learned: the staff cannot focus on just one or two of the top bigs. But, yet again, the staff at BigManU has whiffed on bigs for 2014 and finds itself needing to scramble. The staff never did this despite how many times folks on this board would love to spread that revisionist bit of history. Sure I guess in some years their nets were not spread as wide as they could have been, but to suggest the staff only targeted a couple of guys and left it at that is absurd. What some don't seem to accept is that the Hoyas had a couple of relatively "bad" years in recruiting in which they whiffed on the vast majority of their primary targets. Period. End of story. Let it go already. Love the tone of your post, esp. how you like to separate in groups between your perceived haves and have-nots. (where's that "rolling-eyes" emoticon?) See the bolded areas above. Anyway, don't get caught up in the "one or two" because it might have been "three or four". For example, take the Noel/Hayes class of 2012 I mentioned in my first post. According to ESPN Top 100, there were 19 Cs, plus Mitch McGary who played C in school and tournaments. Of those 20 players, only 5 listed GU and 4 showed offers. The offered players were: #1 Noel, #2 Isaiah Austin, #26 T. Parker, and #55 R. Upshaw. The other player listing GU as interested, but who did not get an offer, was #54 Ochefu. Noel committed on April 11, 2012 during the late signing period. I. Austin verbally committed in 2010. Tony Parker committed on April 23, 2012. Ochefu verbally committed to Villanova on March 21, 2011. Upshaw picked his home team Fresno St. on April 15, 2012. In summary, the staff focused on Noel and Parker until the late signing period and lost out. The result? GU had to scramble and grabbed unranked Hayes on May 9, 2012. As good a prospect as I. Austin was, why spend time on him other than "here's an offer if you're interested"? Sure, it's awesome if you get him, but will that time spend on him make you lose out on spending time with another Top100 who really might be interested? As for Noel, I agree that the staff had to go all out until the very end. At the same time, you had to continue to recruit other Top 100 players and the one who popped first, got a scholarship. If Noel or Parker then wanted to come, there would have been another open scholarship. As for Parker, the staff put in the work, but the kid was looking for something else from early on. As for Upshaw, the staff was fighting to get him out of his home at Fresno St. Finally, there was some teasing between Ochefu and GU, but he verbally committed to Nova during his junior season and we never offered. As the head coach and main person responsible for recruiting, JT3 needed to know when to move on and redirect most of these recruiting efforts somewhere else. Did he have the right staff? Yes or no, he’s still responsible for his staff. What happened with the other 15 C prospects on ESPN’s Top 100 or the other 20 in Rivals’ Top 25? Surely there had to be one or two who would have been intrigued by BigManU to list us. espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2012/order/truesports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-2720/0If you're late to the recruitment of one who would come or do not know when to move on or do not give enough love/time to a recruit because most of the efforts are focused on a few (like the example above), then you’re left in scramble mode. Maybe it has taken JT3 longer to figure this out and who he needs to have or not have as part of his staff to succeed in recruiting, but it looks like we’re moving in the right direction. The new staff has shown it can bring in a great class of the same type of players (1s to 4s), but again BigManU whiffed on the ranked 2014 bigs. The 2014 scramble is still on. I think we’ll agree on: (1.) that the net has to be cast far and wide; and (2.) that it looks like the current staff is doing it.
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