cincyhoya
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by cincyhoya on Apr 4, 2014 11:33:29 GMT -5
So DFW was nice enough to indicate that North Texas is the 11th largest market for Hoya alumni in the US. A quick search didn't turn up a list, so I'm curious, what are the top 10? The first 8 seem obvious from the "City Challenge"
NY DC Boston Philly Chicago LA San Fran Atlanta
That leaves two more before Dallas. Just curious more than anything as to who the next two cities are. Baltimore? Denver? Houston? Anyone know?
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 4, 2014 17:02:41 GMT -5
I doubt its Denver, there are a few of us out here but not even a tenth of San Fran.
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PhillyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by PhillyHoya on Apr 7, 2014 9:31:03 GMT -5
I'd guess Pittsburgh also.
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tgo
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Post by tgo on Apr 7, 2014 16:53:47 GMT -5
I would guess that San Diego is up there
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tgo
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Post by tgo on Apr 7, 2014 17:26:45 GMT -5
On a related note, just got my alumni interviewer newsletter today and the top states in the applicant pool this year, in order, were... CA, NY, NJ, MD, PA, VA, FL, MA, TX, CT, IL It drops off quickly with Cali having 2429 and by the 8th spot, Texas, you are down to only 712.
Total applicant pool 19,501 - 3,232 accepted, 16.6%
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on Apr 7, 2014 20:37:52 GMT -5
Total applications down for the second straight year. Not a good sign. In contrast, at Rice, where my daughter goes, applications are up 15% this year.
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 7, 2014 20:48:57 GMT -5
Total applications down for the second straight year. Not a good sign. In contrast, at Rice, where my daughter goes, applications are up 15% this year. How far down?
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Post by flyoverhoya on Apr 7, 2014 20:55:35 GMT -5
Total applications down for the second straight year. Not a good sign. In contrast, at Rice, where my daughter goes, applications are up 15% this year. Not completely surprising. Number of 18 year olds per year is currently declining, particularly among demographics most represented at GU.
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 8, 2014 11:12:09 GMT -5
If there's any part of New Jersey that's not considered part of either the Philly or New York metro areas, that would be a top 10 market. Aside from that, I'm thinking Miami. I'd also wager that somewhere in Ohio is also likely on there - Columbus, I guess. Total applications down for the second straight year. Not a good sign. In contrast, at Rice, where my daughter goes, applications are up 15% this year. As has been mentioned, college-age population-wise the Southwest is booming and the Northeast is...not. The college age population as a whole is leveling off a bit. Regardless, so long as the quality of the pool is solid and yield stays strong, it's not a concern. Georgetown could practically double its applicant pool and cut its admit rate in half by switching to the Common App, but Deacon's not playing that game.
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Apr 8, 2014 15:30:19 GMT -5
If there's any part of New Jersey that's not considered part of either the Philly or New York metro areas, that would be a top 10 market. Aside from that, I'm thinking Miami. I'd also wager that somewhere in Ohio is also likely on there - Columbus, I guess. Total applications down for the second straight year. Not a good sign. In contrast, at Rice, where my daughter goes, applications are up 15% this year. As has been mentioned, college-age population-wise the Southwest is booming and the Northeast is...not. The college age population as a whole is leveling off a bit. Regardless, so long as the quality of the pool is solid and yield stays strong, it's not a concern. Georgetown could practically double its applicant pool and cut its admit rate in half by switching to the Common App, but Deacon's not playing that game. Russky & Jack---this is my admissions commentary day on the board (other post in Trey Mourning thread)! Here are the latest numbers from some of Gtown's peers in the NYT today: www.nytimes.com/2014/04/09/us/led-by-stanfords-5-top-colleges-acceptance-rates-hit-new-lows.html?hp&_r=1&assetType=nyt_nowNow I know critiquing Charlie D on Gtown admissions is like critiquing JT2 as a basketball coach in the 80s but I still don't understand why the Hilltop doesn't leverage the Common App. The argument I've heard is two-fold: 1) not having the Common App forces GU applicants to demonstrate their fit and commitment by addressing the GU-specific questions in the application and; 2) accepting the Common App would double the workload for an already stretched-too-thin GU Admissions staff because of the customized/unique personal attention given to each applicant. There's an easy solution for this; just auto-deny the bottom 80-90% of Common Apps by test scores/grades (assuming GU retains the GU-specific application process). Since anyone applying to GU via Common App is already sending the signal that (s)/he wants to throw in a GU app with all the other apps they submit in lieu of going through the GU app, it's probably the case that Gtown is not their first choice. The remaining top 10-20% of Common Apps should be evaluated tactically in the context of the other institutions to which the applicant is applying. Assuming GU would double the number of apps via Common App, it could still admit 15-20% of GU specific applicants and maybe 5%, or, at most 10% of Common Apps (while only increasing workload/true review of # of apps by 10-20%!). This would drive the admit rate under double-digits and keep admissions in the Ivy/UC/NW/Duke space and away from slipping to the Emory/UVA/UNC/JHU-like numbers. I know Charlie D is the "dean" of the American collegiate admissions community but this decision to hold out against the Common App seems, to an outsider, as if the world is passing by the Gtown admissions staff. Take that FWIW......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2014 15:49:05 GMT -5
If there's any part of New Jersey that's not considered part of either the Philly or New York metro areas, that would be a top 10 market. Aside from that, I'm thinking Miami. I'd also wager that somewhere in Ohio is also likely on there - Columbus, I guess. As has been mentioned, college-age population-wise the Southwest is booming and the Northeast is...not. The college age population as a whole is leveling off a bit. Regardless, so long as the quality of the pool is solid and yield stays strong, it's not a concern. Georgetown could practically double its applicant pool and cut its admit rate in half by switching to the Common App, but Deacon's not playing that game. Russky & Jack---this is my admissions commentary day on the board (other post in Trey Mourning thread)! Here are the latest numbers from some of Gtown's peers in the NYT today: www.nytimes.com/2014/04/09/us/led-by-stanfords-5-top-colleges-acceptance-rates-hit-new-lows.html?hp&_r=1&assetType=nyt_nowNow I know critiquing Charlie D on Gtown admissions is like critiquing JT2 as a basketball coach in the 80s but I still don't understand why the Hilltop doesn't leverage the Common App. The argument I've heard is two-fold: 1) not having the Common App forces GU applicants to demonstrate their fit and commitment by addressing the GU-specific questions in the application and; 2) accepting the Common App would double the workload for an already stretched-too-thin GU Admissions staff because of the customized/unique personal attention given to each applicant. There's an easy solution for this; just auto-deny the bottom 80-90% of Common Apps by test scores/grades (assuming GU retains the GU-specific application process). Since anyone applying to GU via Common App is already sending the signal that (s)/he wants to throw in a GU app with all the other apps they submit in lieu of going through the GU app, it's probably the case that Gtown is not their first choice. The remaining top 10-20% of Common Apps should be evaluated tactically in the context of the other institutions to which the applicant is applying. Assuming GU would double the number of apps via Common App, it could still admit 15-20% of GU specific applicants and maybe 5%, or, at most 10% of Common Apps (while only increasing workload/true review of # of apps by 10-20%!). This would drive the admit rate under double-digits and keep admissions in the Ivy/UC/NW/Duke space and away from slipping to the Emory/UVA/UNC/JHU-like numbers. I know Charlie D is the "dean" of the American collegiate admissions community but this decision to hold out against the Common App seems, to an outsider, as if the world is passing by the Gtown admissions staff. Take that FWIW...... The Common App seems like a Faustian bargain, one that Georgetown may eventually have to accept to keep pace with its peers. It's a shame the rankings environment has put the university in the position where it has to make these these types of changes but what can you do. I do believe it will eventually take place, but am comforted by the fact that we've held out this long....
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 8, 2014 18:42:43 GMT -5
Russky & Jack---this is my admissions commentary day on the board (other post in Trey Mourning thread)! Here are the latest numbers from some of Gtown's peers in the NYT today: www.nytimes.com/2014/04/09/us/led-by-stanfords-5-top-colleges-acceptance-rates-hit-new-lows.html?hp&_r=1&assetType=nyt_nowNow I know critiquing Charlie D on Gtown admissions is like critiquing JT2 as a basketball coach in the 80s but I still don't understand why the Hilltop doesn't leverage the Common App. The argument I've heard is two-fold: 1) not having the Common App forces GU applicants to demonstrate their fit and commitment by addressing the GU-specific questions in the application and; 2) accepting the Common App would double the workload for an already stretched-too-thin GU Admissions staff because of the customized/unique personal attention given to each applicant. There's an easy solution for this; just auto-deny the bottom 80-90% of Common Apps by test scores/grades (assuming GU retains the GU-specific application process). Since anyone applying to GU via Common App is already sending the signal that (s)/he wants to throw in a GU app with all the other apps they submit in lieu of going through the GU app, it's probably the case that Gtown is not their first choice. The remaining top 10-20% of Common Apps should be evaluated tactically in the context of the other institutions to which the applicant is applying. Assuming GU would double the number of apps via Common App, it could still admit 15-20% of GU specific applicants and maybe 5%, or, at most 10% of Common Apps (while only increasing workload/true review of # of apps by 10-20%!). This would drive the admit rate under double-digits and keep admissions in the Ivy/UC/NW/Duke space and away from slipping to the Emory/UVA/UNC/JHU-like numbers. I know Charlie D is the "dean" of the American collegiate admissions community but this decision to hold out against the Common App seems, to an outsider, as if the world is passing by the Gtown admissions staff. Take that FWIW...... Jack can definitely respond with more authority than I, but here's my bit. First, a few points on your specific proposal: - Maintaining a separate application in addition to the Common App would result in massive duplication and waste of resources. Paying the Common App for all their services, while also maintaining the in-house processes and software... it would just be a poor use of resources.
- Stratifying the way we do applications carries potential social equity and other issues. Can we justify charging someone the same application fee if their application isn't going to be reviewed in the same holistic manner? On the flip side, if we do charge different fees, will we be setting up a bifurcated process that disadvantages poorer students by providing a less comprehensive review to the more affordable applications?
- You write: "The remaining top 10-20% of Common Apps should be evaluated tactically in the context of the other institutions to which the applicant is applying." This would be extremely difficult to do when you do not know the other institutions to which an applicant is applying.
More broadly/philosophically: As everyone knows, Georgetown is punching far above its weight class when it comes to resources vs. brand name (e.g. profile, prestige, reputation, selectivity, etc.). In order to be able to continue doing so while playing the endowment & facilities catch-up game, the University has to play to its strengths and emphasize those differentiators where it has a competitive advantage. Believe it or not, one of the most important ones in this regard is the Cura Personalis concept, extended throughout the University's work, to include admissions. A system that dumped 80-90% of Common App applicants just due to quantitative scores would not be in keeping with that philosophy. Neither would engaging in some of the chicanery that WUSTL and others have, aggressively marketing to students whose PSAT and PLAN scores project them to be uncompetitive in admissions, solely for the purpose of driving up applications. Moving to the Common App because that's what most other schools did, largely to increase applications and drive down the admit rate, would not be in keeping with that. Abandoning need-blind admissions, as even some of our peer schools like Duke do for international applicants, would not be in keeping with that. I certainly don't agree with Charlie on anything, but on the philosophy and the big picture, I really do. I think he's been proven right time and time again - his longstanding holdout against the SAT Writing sections looks to be pretty damn well vindicated now, doesn't it? I truly believe he has actually turned the admissions process into a positive attribute, one that reflects and supports the schools mission and image, rather than being a purely functional process of gatekeeping and rent-seeking. I'm more than inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on the Common App, especially when any gains would just as likely be offset by a concomitant drop in yield, since Common App admits would be less likely to matriculate.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Apr 9, 2014 10:56:14 GMT -5
I truly believe he has actually turned the admissions process into a positive attribute, one that reflects and supports the schools mission and image, rather than being a purely functional process of gatekeeping and rent-seeking. When I read the NYT article, this was exactly my thought. I know there are always hard decisions to make between qualified candidates, but I don't want any Georgetown admissions counselor saying "most of the students they turn down are such strong candidates that many are indistinguishable from those who get in." The Georgetown admissions process works to distinguish the candidates better than any other top school, and that reflects what Georgetown strives to be as an institution.
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Post by flyoverhoya on Apr 9, 2014 12:07:06 GMT -5
Total applications down for the second straight year. Not a good sign. In contrast, at Rice, where my daughter goes, applications are up 15% this year. How far down? Here are the numbers- 2007 - 16,168 2008 - 18,695 2009 - 18,610 2010 - 18,070 2011 - 19,254 2012 - 20,111 2013 - 19,879 2014 - 19,501 The large jump from '07 to '08 was related, I think, to some other schools moving away from binding early action programs.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 9, 2014 12:17:18 GMT -5
For context: www.wiche.edu/info/publications/knocking-8th/ch2.pdfNational Trends
Our projections indicate that the U.S. is seeing the first overall decline in the number of its high school graduates in more than a decade.
In many states education agencies and postsecondary institutions, used to planning for ever-larger demand, will face a new reality. Data indicate the contraction in the national supply of high school graduates began with the class of 2012. After that, even returns to growth will be minor and temporary. The graduating classes between 2018 and 2023 will see only small increases...
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Apr 11, 2014 9:58:22 GMT -5
The large jump from '07 to '08 was related, I think, to some other schools moving away from binding early action programs. Cough cough...final four...cough cough...
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Apr 11, 2014 10:16:06 GMT -5
Georgetown does not accept the Common Application, which is largely responsible for inflating the application numbers of the schools that take it. www.commonapp.org/Login#!PublicPages/AllMembers
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Post by flyoverhoya on Apr 11, 2014 10:50:06 GMT -5
The large jump from '07 to '08 was related, I think, to some other schools moving away from binding early action programs. Cough cough...final four...cough cough... Yes, but it's also the year that Harvard and Princeton (and UVA, I think) eliminated their binding early action programs.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Apr 11, 2014 12:17:53 GMT -5
Cough cough...final four...cough cough... Yes, but it's also the year that Harvard and Princeton (and UVA, I think) eliminated their binding early action programs. How did the binding early action admission work? How exactly did they force an early accepted student to come? Was it a very large non-refundable deposit?
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 11, 2014 12:31:18 GMT -5
Yes, but it's also the year that Harvard and Princeton (and UVA, I think) eliminated their binding early action programs. How did the binding early action admission work? How exactly did they force an early accepted student to come? Was it a very large non-refundable deposit? A "binding early action" program is called Early Decision. "Early Action" is the terminology used specifically for non-binding programs. High non-refundable deposits is part of it. I'll let the Peterson's folks explain it in greater detail:Question: Is early decision 100% binding, and what if any, are ways to get out of this agreement? Are there legal ramifications in breaking this agreement? Thanks You. - leslie
Answer: Good question. The answer is no, the ED commitment is not, as we understand it, legally binding, at least in the sense that you will not be dragged in chains to the college, fined by it or the government, or sued for damages and tuition payments, if you decide not to go to the school that admitted you ED.
However, the ED commitment is binding in the college admissions process, and if you are found to have applied to other colleges after having been admitted ED someplace, or to have applied to more than one ED school, or to give up your ED choice for another college that has offered you admission, you will face the usual consequence of being blacklisted by the ED college. The school will try to contact your high school guidance office and other colleges that have admitted you to notify them of your breaking the agreement. These other colleges will most likely withdraw their admission offers, and you will be left with no choices for the fall.
The best thing to do if you have been admitted ED and have decided you do not want to attend, is to write a letter or call to explain your reasons, and to plan to take a gap year between high school and college. You can then apply to other colleges for the following fall.
If a college has admitted you ED, and then you have been admitted elsewhere, you need to contact both schools to discuss whether they will release you from the ED commitment and allow you to attend the other school.
Finally, insufficient financial aid is the only legitimate and explicitly approved reason to withdraw from the ED commitment. However, you should notify the ED college as soon as you receive the admission and financial aid offers from them (they are supposed to come at around the same time) and request to be released from the commitment, which they usually will do. Of course, then there may or may not be time to apply to other colleges by their deadlines, depending on when you applied ED, round one or two. And, you won't know if any other schools will eventually offer you better financial aid packages if they admit you.
For more on ED and EA policies, and other admission practices, see the National Association for College Admission Counseling Web site, www.nacacnet.org and their statement of principles of good practice.
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