FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Oct 30, 2014 20:18:54 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with St. John's. I'm just continually amused at how often Hoyatalk throws around the line "We need INSERT TEAM HERE to be good for the sake of the Big East" and how we've by now applied the standard to seemingly every team in the conference except DePaul. Shoot, it's seeping into the national media--it's basically the premise of Dana O'Neil's recent article on ESPN.
As if there's a team in the conference to whom we'd say, "Nah, actually, it's okay for the conference if you're terrible".
I guess St. John's gets the label most often, though I don't have an especially strong opinion on it. I'm lukewarm on the Johnnies, probably because I was 2 1/2 years old in 1985 so my memories of St. John's being relevant are confined to that time Felipe Lopez was on the cover of SI, and that was freakin' hilarious. The 90s, man.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 30, 2014 21:40:07 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with St. John's. I'm just continually amused at how often Hoyatalk throws around the line "We need INSERT TEAM HERE to be good for the sake of the Big East" and how we've by now applied the standard to seemingly every team in the conference except DePaul. Shoot, it's seeping into the national media--it's basically the premise of Dana O'Neil's recent article on ESPN. As if there's a team in the conference to whom we'd say, "Nah, actually, it's okay for the conference if you're terrible". I guess St. John's gets the label most often, though I don't have an especially strong opinion on it. I'm lukewarm on the Johnnies, probably because I was 2 1/2 years old in 1985 so my memories of St. John's being relevant are confined to that time Felipe Lopez was on the cover of SI, and that was freakin' hilarious. The 90s, man. I agree with this. It's not even acceptable to me that DePaul has been so terrible. Sure, you need someone to be at the bottom, but the frustrating thing about DePaul is that they have showed absolutely no sign that they are going to get better. It wasn't a huge deal when the Big East had 16 teams and several powerhouses, but guaranteeing that 1/10 of the conference doesn't even have a chance to scratch the NIT is not something good for our conference. I think the reason people hone in on St. John's is because they were relevant (though much of that was 30 years ago) and because they are in New York. Practically speaking, I want every team to be good, including DePaul. DePaul is getting a brand new shiny arena and they are in Chicago - arguably, a solid DePaul program would be almost as valuable. Moreover, DePaul's record rivals St. John's in many respects. They made the NCAA tournament nearly every year from 1978 to 1992, and they had an Elite Eight and Final Four in there. Who wouldn't want that now? There's no reason DePaul - in one of the great basketball cities in the country - cannot be a powerhouse for this Big East. Whether they can do it with Parnell, maybe not. But given how much they pay him, they ought to be able to get a solid replacement.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Oct 30, 2014 22:48:52 GMT -5
The difference being that St. John's was once a destination for big time players and, somehow, they still can be (primarily and especially for local kids). They play in MSG. They operate in a huge market with a ton of talent and, again, in the city, the history means something. If you were 2 1/2 in 85 and don't live in the area, it's understandable that you don't get it. But, it's not all that different from the Hoyas' situation. We won in 84. We've had good teams but we haven't done all that much. We have Hall of Famers, sure. But how many 18 year olds watched a lot of Alonzo? That's why it's huge that Iverson came to the groundbreaking. I digress. There's a history that still matters and, yes, there was a cultural consciousness brought on by Big John that the Johnnies don't have. But the passion of that fan base and the history of that program lives. It's passed down from grandfather to son to grandson. Not unlike the Knicks. The Johnnies, for better or worse, have the best chance to rebound as a program. And it'd be great for the conference if they did. Would it be great if all of the programs were competitive? Of course. But no one is holding their breath for DePaul. The DePaul HC job isn't a destination gig. The St. John's job still is even considering their past 2 decades.
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Just Cos
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Post by Just Cos on Oct 31, 2014 2:00:06 GMT -5
To act like it doesn't matter for the Big East to have a good year, meaning other teams do well, is madness. We are on a fragile ledge and unless we, as a conference, can prove that we are for real we are that much closer to a terrible contract down the road.
Coaching and recruiting is the only way that this conference remains relevant.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Oct 31, 2014 8:48:37 GMT -5
Am I correct that just one player was drafted by the NBA from the BIg East last year...and that was from traditional Eastern power, Creighton? I mean that is scary.
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BigMike
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Post by BigMike on Oct 31, 2014 9:06:18 GMT -5
Semaj Christon from Xavier was also drafted.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Oct 31, 2014 9:14:26 GMT -5
To act like it doesn't matter for the Big East to have a good year, meaning other teams do well, is madness. We are on a fragile ledge and unless we, as a conference, can prove that we are for real we are that much closer to a terrible contract down the road. Coaching and recruiting is the only way that this conference remains relevant. I should clarify my point here: I chuckle whenever someone on Hoyatalk says "We need INSERT TEAM HERE to be good for the sake of the Big East" because it's been said so often, and has been applied to pretty much every team except DePaul, that it loses all meaning. It should be a corner square on Hoyatalk BINGO (the center square is a picture of Charlie Daniels). Just say "the Big East could really stand to have a good year" and that should suffice. Related to this, my personal opinion is that there isn't anything special about one particular Big East school that makes it more important to the conference that they specifically have a good year. I personally think in the current media environment, particularly with so many TV options and internet press, most good college basketball stories get out there regardless of team. And I don't think the value added of being in NYC, for instance, is nearly what it was in 1985 to push that kind of story. I like going to games at MSG and I like the atmosphere at the Big East Tournament, but I'm not sure how much bigger a story St. John's hitting the Top Ten would be than, say Creighton being good on the back of Dougie McBuckets, which seemed to do just fine as a national story last season*. I realize this opinion is probably not in the majority, and that's fine. (*Perhaps a counterpoint to this: Villanova last season was one of the most anonymous consistent Top Ten teams I can remember.) So if you buy that there's no one specific team that the Big East NEEDS to be successful this year/any, that means the Big East just needs as many teams as possible to be good. And that's...true for literally every conference. The ACC, Big Ten, Patriot League, Ivy League, Southland...they all could stand to have multiple teams have great seasons, be ranked, or pull off prominent non-conference victories. I hope the Big East does it this season, though being 100% honest on Oct 31st I'm skeptical that the conference has the depth to pull it off.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Oct 31, 2014 9:31:26 GMT -5
For what it is worth, I desperately want DePaul to be good again, too, and really hope that they give Purnell a few more years.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 31, 2014 9:34:08 GMT -5
Again, I agree that the Big East basically needs as many teams as possible to be good no matter who they are. I also think the focus on St. John's and New York is often over exaggerated. I've lived in New York nearly my entire life (Georgetown's years being an exception), and there are so many other competing sports and things, that no single college basketball team is ever going to capture the hearts and minds of a huge swath of people. Granted, if St. John's could make a few Sweet 16's or a Final Four, I am sure it would help their attendance, but overall being in NY doesn't hugely impact the national attention you are going to get if you aren't very good (again, I say this in the context of college basketball - clearly for other professional sports, being in NY often does draw significantly more attention than being in other cities).
In my mind, people want to see winners and high quality basketball - it doesn't matter if the good teams are from Nebraska, New York, Philadelphia, or Providence. If you put out a high quality winning product, people will come to watch it, it will garner press attention, and players will inevitably get drafted. We need that to happen and it doesn't matter who does it, as long as some do (hopefully, including Georgetown!).
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 31, 2014 9:39:15 GMT -5
I think a lot of it is the legacy/nostalgic aura of the Big East as the school of East Coast urban centers. It's kind of an 80s throwback mentality - gritty, urban, chains instead of nets on the hoops, tough guys, etc. A contrast to the tobacco money of Duke and UNC, the antebellum hillbillies of Kentucky, and the farmboys of Kansas and Indiana.
Except, oops, it's 2014, those gritty Eastern metropolises are in various stages of gentrification (I hope Mayor-for-Life Barry lives just long enough to see the first combination hot yoga studio and froyoery open down the street from Barry Farm), most top players go to schools nowhere near their homes, and urban media markets no longer rule in an on-demand cable/dish/internet era.
Oh, and also, the most successful teams in the league recently have, in addition to Nova, been Creighton, Butler, and Marquette. I'm sure <ManningVoice>OMAHA</ManningVoice>, Milwaukee, and Indy are fine cities, but they're not what people nostalgic for the Big East heyday have in mind.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Oct 31, 2014 10:26:42 GMT -5
The difference being that St. John's was once a destination for big time players and, somehow, they still can be (primarily and especially for local kids). They play in MSG. They operate in a huge market with a ton of talent and, again, in the city, the history means something. If you were 2 1/2 in 85 and don't live in the area, it's understandable that you don't get it. But, it's not all that different from the Hoyas' situation. We won in 84. We've had good teams but we haven't done all that much. We have Hall of Famers, sure. But how many 18 year olds watched a lot of Alonzo? That's why it's huge that Iverson came to the groundbreaking. I digress. There's a history that still matters and, yes, there was a cultural consciousness brought on by Big John that the Johnnies don't have. But the passion of that fan base and the history of that program lives. It's passed down from grandfather to son to grandson. Not unlike the Knicks. The Johnnies, for better or worse, have the best chance to rebound as a program. And it'd be great for the conference if they did. Would it be great if all of the programs were competitive? Of course. But no one is holding their breath for DePaul. The DePaul HC job isn't a destination gig. The St. John's job still is even considering their past 2 decades. But if any of this stuff mattered as much as you're saying it does, we wouldn't be in our 15th year of mostly bad basketball coming out of NYC. If the area and arena was that big a of a draw, St. John's or the Knicks would have had a good season more recently than 2000. If there was that much talent coming out of the area, the best NBA players from NYC wouldn't be Kemba Walker, Lance Stephenson, and Kyle O'Quinn.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Oct 31, 2014 12:03:11 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 12:37:27 GMT -5
I only care about Gtown being good...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 12:41:44 GMT -5
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Nov 4, 2014 20:53:58 GMT -5
I suppose it is off-season news that 'nova is spanking Northwood
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 4, 2014 21:24:18 GMT -5
I suppose it is off-season news that 'nova is spanking Northwood Rollie Massimino coaches Northwood. They are honoring their '85 team tonight.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Nov 4, 2014 21:33:08 GMT -5
Rollie turns 80 next Thursday. He has been coaching at Northwood's Florida campus since 2006, and his teams have made the NAIA Division II playoffs every year. Granted, it's not the Big East and NCAA, but doesn't almost everyone go to Florida to retire?
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McBricks
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Post by McBricks on Nov 5, 2014 17:17:48 GMT -5
Not sure where to put this comment but this thread seems as good as any.
So I'm home sick today. Flipping around in the TV, I get to the CBS Sports Network. There's a little program called, "The Doug Gottlieb Show."
Whaaaaa??? He is currently talking about the college football playoff system and Adrian Peterson.
WTF has become of TV programming? Is there anyone who actually tunes in daily to hear his opinion? It's worth a watch for sure as it seems like an SNL skit that is supposed to be funny but isn't but kinda is.
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hoya95
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Post by hoya95 on Nov 5, 2014 17:42:36 GMT -5
Not sure where to put this comment but this thread seems as good as any. So I'm home sick today. Flipping around in the TV, I get to the CBS Sports Network. There's a little program called, "The Doug Gottlieb Show." Whaaaaa??? He is currently talking about the college football playoff system and Adrian Peterson. WTF has become of TV programming? Is there anyone who actually tunes in daily to hear his opinion? It's worth a watch for sure as it seems like an SNL skit that is supposed to be funny but isn't but kinda is. Those 24 hours a day are not going to fill themselves. Outside of live events, there is no need for round the clock sports coverage. But that's what we have. ESPN goes with one channel of Sportscenter breathlessly repeating the top controversy of the day (manufactured or only partially manufactured), then the other channels simulcast radio shows. NBCSN (Dan Patrick), FS1 (Francesa) and CBS Sports (the bottom of the barrel) simulcast radio shows because it's cheap, and, hey, it's something. I'd like to say Gottleib is as low as we can go, but at some point, the John Feinstein Show may come to a cable channel near you. And then we will have hit rock bottom.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 5, 2014 20:40:45 GMT -5
Not sure where to put this comment but this thread seems as good as any. So I'm home sick today. Flipping around in the TV, I get to the CBS Sports Network. There's a little program called, "The Doug Gottlieb Show." Whaaaaa??? He is currently talking about the college football playoff system and Adrian Peterson. WTF has become of TV programming? Is there anyone who actually tunes in daily to hear his opinion? It's worth a watch for sure as it seems like an SNL skit that is supposed to be funny but isn't but kinda is. You weren't feeling sick enough already?
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