miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
|
Post by miracles87 on Apr 4, 2014 22:16:44 GMT -5
Bad Sleepy. Perhaps WVU is especially tough for visiting teams and fans, but this isn't the point the documentary chooses to make. Rather, it intimates that anything you need to know about WVU entering the Big East can be ascertained from a couple three context-free seconds of what appears to be hillbilly life. That's bad, right?
|
|
Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
|
Post by Elvado on Apr 5, 2014 5:57:37 GMT -5
Not to quibble over little things but BC lost in the regional semi not final and it was by 2, not 1.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 10:54:58 GMT -5
|
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Apr 5, 2014 12:22:39 GMT -5
Bad Sleepy. Perhaps WVU is especially tough for visiting teams and fans, but this isn't the point the documentary chooses to make. Rather, it intimates that anything you need to know about WVU entering the Big East can be ascertained from a couple three context-free seconds of what appears to be hillbilly life. That's bad, right? No the point made by WVu fan entirely misses the point that was made in Requiem, that was far deeper than toughness and style of play by Georgetown and how Patrick was treated It was outright racism exhibited by fans and to some extent by the media at both the program players coaches and the school. For WVu fan to put his complaint in the same context is quite beyond anything i understand. Its been awhile but I can remember Hillbilly bars that existed to promote the experience, Now many may appreciate the significance of the Montaineer mascot a coonskin cap and Musket doesn't do alot to change that image especially when they get in trouble for going out and shooting a bear. If someone wants to get serious and legitimately attack the documentary how about the use of Charlie Pierce. His ramblings during the 80s while covering college basketball for the Boston Herald were among the most inflammatory that i can recall. His constant comparisions of Thompson to Grandmaster Flash may not have been appreciated by many in the early 80s especially in Boston.The fact that he made very specific comments intimating Thompson and Idi Amin as one in the same. While Charlie was not a racist in any way his writing at the time inflammed a growing theme that still is found today. I can clealry remember how his writings so negatively impacted some of the Georgetown fans a genration older than the coach who saw themselves collectively as the coaches from the neighborhood, who in the 80s traveled extensively following the team. Pierces writing simply promoted in their view the idea that Boston was a racist city to the point that they stopped traveling to the town shortly there after.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,473
|
Post by DanMcQ on Apr 5, 2014 18:31:51 GMT -5
Charlie came off as a bitter guy who was PO'd about not getting access (somewhat like Bum Feinstein). Will McDonough carried the racist banner against Coach Thompson and Georgetown for the Boston Globe from the 1980s until the day he died.
|
|
miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
|
Post by miracles87 on Apr 5, 2014 19:48:14 GMT -5
Bad Sleepy. Perhaps WVU is especially tough for visiting teams and fans, but this isn't the point the documentary chooses to make. Rather, it intimates that anything you need to know about WVU entering the Big East can be ascertained from a couple three context-free seconds of what appears to be hillbilly life. That's bad, right? No the point made by WVu fan entirely misses the point that was made in Requiem, that was far deeper than toughness and style of play by Georgetown and how Patrick was treated It was outright racism exhibited by fans and to some extent by the media at both the program players coaches and the school. For WVu fan to put his complaint in the same context is quite beyond anything i understand. Sleepy, if I were to try to put the complaint in a context you could understand, I would say that the Hillbilly montage was the rough equivalent of a Big East Conference documentary beginning discussion of Georgetown Hoya Basketball by showing video of a group of African American people eating watermelon. Now, it's not like I want to make a big deal of this, but I was immediately surprised and Editeded with the Hillbilly stuff, and the more I thought of it, the more I didn't like it. I lived in Almost Heaven working the rivers when I was younger, and I met so many nice folks out there. However, I don't necessarily agree with the "WV saved the Big East" stuff, can't say as I remember that myself, but I really enjoyed the rivalry. Overall, I really enjoyed the doc, loved seeing Pops in his prime, what a great man. He's been killing it on the radio for the tourney, too.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Apr 5, 2014 20:00:50 GMT -5
No the point made by WVu fan entirely misses the point that was made in Requiem, that was far deeper than toughness and style of play by Georgetown and how Patrick was treated It was outright racism exhibited by fans and to some extent by the media at both the program players coaches and the school. For WVu fan to put his complaint in the same context is quite beyond anything i understand. Sleepy, if I were to try to put the complaint in a context you could understand, I would say that the Hillbilly montage was the rough equivalent of a Big East Conference documentary beginning discussion of Georgetown Hoya Basketball by showing video of a group of African American people eating watermelon. Now, it's not like I want to make a big deal of this, but I was immediately surprised and Editeded with the Hillbilly stuff, and the more I thought of it, the more I didn't like it. I lived in Almost Heaven working the rivers when I was younger, and I met so many nice folks out there. However, I don't necessarily agree with the "WV saved the Big East" stuff, can't say as I remember that myself, but I really enjoyed the rivalry. Overall, I really enjoyed the doc, loved seeing Pops in his prime, what a great man. He's been killing it on the radio for the tourney, too. This is a common problem these day with the "racist hilly billy west virginian" stereotype. Same thing happened in the historical film the Express about Syracuse running back Ernie Davis: " Journalists and film critics noted that a scene of "racist vitriol"[9] involving the October 24, 1959 game between Syracuse and West Virginia University, was fictitious and, as Film Journal International critic Frank Lovece noted, " veers remarkably toward outright slander."[10] He said the game was "falsely shown as taking place at WVU's Mountaineer Field" in Morgantown, West Virginia, "rather than at Syracuse's own Archbold Stadium," the Orangemen's home field in New York state. Additionally, Lovece remarked that "Aside from the fact that the game didn't even take place there, Schwartzwalder had earlier led West Virginia high-school teams to state championships, and was a beloved and respected figure with devoted fans there who wouldn't have given his teams any lip — so much so that on his death in 1993, WVU even instituted the Ben Schwartzwalder Trophy".[10] Syracuse quarterback Dick Easterly, who played with Davis in Morgantown the following year, on October 22, 1960, after the events of the Cotton Bowl Classic against the University of Texas, recalled no such events and said, " I apologize to the people of West Virginia because that did not happen. I don't blame people in West Virginia for being disturbed. The scene is completely fictitious."[11] Syracuse center Patrick Whelan, a Davis teammate, said of the movie's inaccuracies, "[W]e’re sitting watching this thing, saying, 'Jeez, where did they get that from?' "[12] Screenwriter Charles Leavitt expressed surprise at the scene in the finished film, whose original script did not involve West Virginia.[13] However, Leavitt's explanation that "the scene was supposed to depict a 1958 game at Tar Heels Stadium in North Carolina" is inaccurate on all counts; Davis was a freshman in the 1958 season and therefore did not play on the Orangemen's varsity team; Syracuse did not play North Carolina in football until 1995; and the name of UNC's home field has been Kenan Stadium since its construction in 1927. In addition the story of the game, as far as sequence of plays and scores go, is considerably out of order.[14]" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Express
|
|
Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,906
|
Post by Filo on Apr 6, 2014 15:15:43 GMT -5
Bad Sleepy. Perhaps WVU is especially tough for visiting teams and fans, but this isn't the point the documentary chooses to make. Rather, it intimates that anything you need to know about WVU entering the Big East can be ascertained from a couple three context-free seconds of what appears to be hillbilly life. That's bad, right? No the point made by WVu fan entirely misses the point that was made in Requiem, that was far deeper than toughness and style of play by Georgetown and how Patrick was treated It was outright racism exhibited by fans and to some extent by the media at both the program players coaches and the school. For WVu fan to put his complaint in the same context is quite beyond anything i understand. Its been awhile but I can remember Hillbilly bars that existed to promote the experience, Now many may appreciate the significance of the Montaineer mascot a coonskin cap and Musket doesn't do alot to change that image especially when they get in trouble for going out and shooting a bear. If someone wants to get serious and legitimately attack the documentary how about the use of Charlie Pierce. His ramblings during the 80s while covering college basketball for the Boston Herald were among the most inflammatory that i can recall. His constant comparisions of Thompson to Grandmaster Flash may not have been appreciated by many in the early 80s especially in Boston.The fact that he made very specific comments intimating Thompson and Idi Amin as one in the same. While Charlie was not a racist in any way his writing at the time inflammed a growing theme that still is found today. I can clealry remember how his writings so negatively impacted some of the Georgetown fans a genration older than the coach who saw themselves collectively as the coaches from the neighborhood, who in the 80s traveled extensively following the team. Pierces writing simply promoted in their view the idea that Boston was a racist city to the point that they stopped traveling to the town shortly there after. Still scratching my head over this. Seriously? WTF? I just don't get it (or should I say "quite beyond anything i understand?"). You are pretty close to going out of your way to defend the hillbilly clip in the Requiem piece. What's so hard to admit that it was inappropriate and had no place in the documentary? Saying WVU saved the BE is laughable, sure, but that wasn't the main point of the OP.
|
|
hoyajmw
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,031
|
Post by hoyajmw on Apr 11, 2014 13:01:50 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Apr 11, 2014 19:16:52 GMT -5
I have a copy of that paper ...
|
|
aristides
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 341
|
Post by aristides on Apr 25, 2014 10:01:41 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 25, 2014 10:17:17 GMT -5
As I read it, no. It just means that we could either follow the Big 5 rules or not as it relates to full scholarship, outside jobs, insurance, & family travel. Small programs probably wouldn't do this but I would think we would opt to do this if our other basketball equivalents are doing it. It doesn't state that programs outside the big 5 couldn't follow the big 5 rules, you just wouldn't have a say in how they are crafted.
|
|
CaliHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,184
|
Post by CaliHoya on Apr 25, 2014 10:29:59 GMT -5
Yea, we'd just follow suit. I just am not sure how Title XI affects things and whether extending support to one sport means we'd have to extend it to all sports. Could we just give all the extra benefits to our scholarship teams (basketball, lacrosse, soccer, etc)?
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,730
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 25, 2014 11:41:01 GMT -5
If I am reading this correctly, the Big East would be significantly less attractive to the top talent. Any chance someone can reassure me that this proposed rule change will not happen or doesn't apply to college hoops...or that Georgetown will be included just for kicks? 1. Proposed rule change will pass, but will be amended. 2. In theory, applies to all sports. 3. Georgetown is not included, unless they join one of these conferences.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 25, 2014 14:23:12 GMT -5
The NCAA is scared to death that the football powers will break off and form their own group(the union issue is also a factor), so it is trying to accommodate(kiss up to) them. Just a fact of life in the world of college sports.
|
|
skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,496
|
Post by skyhoya on Apr 28, 2014 21:01:06 GMT -5
It's time for the NCAA to re-invent itself, before the FB schools break out.
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Apr 28, 2014 23:49:42 GMT -5
It's time for the NCAA to re-invent itself, before the FB schools break out. They are...giving the FB schools voting and rule making power.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 29, 2014 11:41:29 GMT -5
It's time for the NCAA to re-invent itself, before the FB schools break out. I just hope that the NCAA can remember that they have Division I members who are not in the 5 power football conferences, and not sell them out.
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,241
|
Post by SSHoya on Apr 29, 2014 11:43:23 GMT -5
It's time for the NCAA to re-invent itself, before the FB schools break out. I just hope that the NCAA can remember that they have Division I members who are not in the 5 power football conferences, and not sell them out. If it's all about the $$$, sell out coming . . .
|
|
WVHoyasfan
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
GREATEST HOYA EVER!!!!!
Posts: 275
|
Post by WVHoyasfan on Apr 30, 2014 23:51:22 GMT -5
Sleepy, if I were to try to put the complaint in a context you could understand, I would say that the Hillbilly montage was the rough equivalent of a Big East Conference documentary beginning discussion of Georgetown Hoya Basketball by showing video of a group of African American people eating watermelon. Now, it's not like I want to make a big deal of this, but I was immediately surprised and Editeded with the Hillbilly stuff, and the more I thought of it, the more I didn't like it. I lived in Almost Heaven working the rivers when I was younger, and I met so many nice folks out there. However, I don't necessarily agree with the "WV saved the Big East" stuff, can't say as I remember that myself, but I really enjoyed the rivalry. Overall, I really enjoyed the doc, loved seeing Pops in his prime, what a great man. He's been killing it on the radio for the tourney, too. This is a common problem these day with the "racist hilly billy west virginian" stereotype. Same thing happened in the historical film the Express about Syracuse running back Ernie Davis: " Journalists and film critics noted that a scene of "racist vitriol"[9] involving the October 24, 1959 game between Syracuse and West Virginia University, was fictitious and, as Film Journal International critic Frank Lovece noted, " veers remarkably toward outright slander."[10] He said the game was "falsely shown as taking place at WVU's Mountaineer Field" in Morgantown, West Virginia, "rather than at Syracuse's own Archbold Stadium," the Orangemen's home field in New York state. Additionally, Lovece remarked that "Aside from the fact that the game didn't even take place there, Schwartzwalder had earlier led West Virginia high-school teams to state championships, and was a beloved and respected figure with devoted fans there who wouldn't have given his teams any lip — so much so that on his death in 1993, WVU even instituted the Ben Schwartzwalder Trophy".[10] Syracuse quarterback Dick Easterly, who played with Davis in Morgantown the following year, on October 22, 1960, after the events of the Cotton Bowl Classic against the University of Texas, recalled no such events and said, " I apologize to the people of West Virginia because that did not happen. I don't blame people in West Virginia for being disturbed. The scene is completely fictitious."[11] Syracuse center Patrick Whelan, a Davis teammate, said of the movie's inaccuracies, "[W]e’re sitting watching this thing, saying, 'Jeez, where did they get that from?' "[12] Screenwriter Charles Leavitt expressed surprise at the scene in the finished film, whose original script did not involve West Virginia.[13] However, Leavitt's explanation that "the scene was supposed to depict a 1958 game at Tar Heels Stadium in North Carolina" is inaccurate on all counts; Davis was a freshman in the 1958 season and therefore did not play on the Orangemen's varsity team; Syracuse did not play North Carolina in football until 1995; and the name of UNC's home field has been Kenan Stadium since its construction in 1927. In addition the story of the game, as far as sequence of plays and scores go, is considerably out of order.[14]" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_ExpressGuys when I said WVU saved the BE I was talking about the football side of things. They won three to four BCS bowl games when EVERYBODY was putting down the BE wanting them to loose their BCS bid. WVU kept winning and shutting up all the nay sayers and made them look real bad after WVU kept winning,winning and winning beating big football schools in big bowl games. Yet when it comes to the Doc about the BE all this punk would show is three or four people playing banjos that had NOTHING to do with sports. I garrentee if sombody made a Documentry about JT11 and Georgetown saying that they was racist b/c they never let white guys start or hardly play at all then this whole board would throw a fit. Don't get me wrong I would throw a fit to but I am just telling you how we as Gtown fans would react. I will go to my grave saying this guy that made this Doc was way out of line and it was uncalled for.
|
|