MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 21, 2014 1:29:22 GMT -5
Iverson was an athlete the likes of which we hadn't yet seen when he arrived on the hilltop. He also had the much better NBA career. But anyone who claims he had even a fraction of the college impact that Pearl had must not have been alive at the time. Gotta call bs on that one. Read closely what you wrote. You're saying that Iverson didn't have a "fraction" of the impact on college basketball that Pearl did. That is absurd. Are we talking about Ralph Sampson or Dwayne “Pearl” freakin' Washington? You would have an argument if Pearl Washington was some First team All American two times or more during his three seasons. Instead he made second team All American his soph season, and had to settle for third team his final season as a junior. I realize AI played in a college basketball era that was more water down, but his making First Team Big East in his second and final season as a Hoya essentially makes him even with Pearl on that front. I guess it must be all of those Big East championships and Final Fours the Pearl led Syracuse too. Oh, wait. He did nothing of the kind during his three seasons in Orange. Again...that makes him about even with Iverson, not better. Did the Pearl's presence turn a conference into a juggernaut with his teams games drawing ridiculous viewing numbers? No. Patrick Ewing did all those things and his presence was what made the Big East what it would come to be. The Pearl was merely a flashy supporting character in that story. Granted The Pearl helped established the Big East, something Iverson, arriving over ten years later, did not, could not, do. Yet Iverson was responsible for help returning the Big East back to must-see television after the conference had fallen off and was being dismissed as being behind the Atlantic 10. Which accomplishment was more worthy? Probably The Pearl’s, but not by that much. Well, the Pearl must have at least made Syracuse a big time, household name program when he joined the team, right, ala Patrick at Georgetown? Um, doubtful. Syracuse was already an established program by the time he got there. I can argue that the things that made Syracuse more of a household name were the rise of the Big East and the opening of the Carrier Dome. Granted the Pearl helped fill that dome and his play allowed Boeheim to attract higher caliber players from across the country, but he wasn't necessarily that once in a generation player at his position that can alter a program forever. Iverson was a once in a generation talent, but I’m not arguing he was a game changer for his program either. But that further reinforces my argument that his impact on college ball wasn’t merely a fraction to what Pearl’s was. Casual sports fans have some awareness of the name Ralph Sampson even though the big guy played in the early 80s, won absolutely nothing in college basketball and had a disappointing pro career. The Pearl fits that same description except for the part about casual sports fans having an awareness of who he is/was. You can’t claim that Iverson’s impact was only a fraction to a guy like that if that guy has mostly been forgotten or never known to most of today’s casual sports fans. Surely the Pearl must rank as one of the all-time greats in college basketball if Iverson didn’t mean a fraction to college hoops as him. Wrong. You rarely if ever see the guy listed as one of the top 50 college basketball players of all time. In fact in 2004 Street & Smith published a magazine special listing the 100 Greatest College Players of all time. The list, like all lists, is far from perfect (Ewing is only at #15, while Jordan somehow is ahead of him at #13). Still the magazine used 40 highly regarded college hoops experts to come up with the names and rankings. You know where The Pearl ended up? Nowhere. He didn’t make the list. Perhaps not ever making AP First Team hurt him in the end. By the way Iverson ended up as #84 on that same list. Not shabby for a guy who played one less season than Dwayne Washington. Kenny Anderson, another New York high school legend like The Pearl, was listed at #98, despite also playing one less season. Look, if one wants to argue that Iverson’s impact on the college game wasn’t as big overall as The Pearl, then one can make a convincing case for that I suppose. Just don’t go overboard with all that hyperbole regarding Iverson only being a fraction in terms of impact to the college game that the Pearl was. The poster making the claim seems to suggest that those who don’t buy into that viewpoint are too young to know better. But one can turn it around and say that he is too old to realize how impactful Iverson was to a large number of very young Americans, from toddlers to teens, who only got into college hoops BECAUSE of Iverson. Iverson’s shoe sales his rookie season in the NBA didn’t happen because overnight fans across the country discovered him. It happened because he became a phenom while in college and built a fanbase that the Pearl would have likely been envious of. Iverson, flaws and all, single-handedly made Georgetown both relevant again and must-see TV. And if JT Jr had been a more effective recruiter at that stage, or still had the passion for recruiting, Georgetown would have benefitted as much from Iverson’s college career as Syracuse did as a result of The Pearl’s.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Filo on Mar 21, 2014 9:17:23 GMT -5
Iverson was an athlete the likes of which we hadn't yet seen when he arrived on the hilltop. He also had the much better NBA career. But anyone who claims he had even a fraction of the college impact that Pearl had must not have been alive at the time. Gotta call bs on that one. Read closely what you wrote. You're saying that Iverson didn't have a "fraction" of the impact on college basketball that Pearl did. That is absurd. Are we talking about Ralph Sampson or Dwayne “Pearl” freakin' Washington? You would have an argument if Pearl Washington was some First team All American two times or more during his three seasons. Instead he made second team All American his soph season, and had to settle for third team his final season as a junior. I realize AI played in a college basketball era that was more water down, but his making First Team Big East in his second and final season as a Hoya essentially makes him even with Pearl on that front. I guess it must be all of those Big East championships and Final Fours the Pearl led Syracuse too. Oh, wait. He did nothing of the kind during his three seasons in Orange. Again...that makes him about even with Iverson, not better. Did the Pearl's presence turn a conference into a juggernaut with his teams games drawing ridiculous viewing numbers? No. Patrick Ewing did all those things and his presence was what made the Big East what it would come to be. The Pearl was merely a flashy supporting character in that story. Granted The Pearl helped established the Big East, something Iverson, arriving over ten years later, did not, could not, do. Yet Iverson was responsible for help returning the Big East back to must-see television after the conference had fallen off and was being dismissed as being behind the Atlantic 10. Which accomplishment was more worthy? Probably The Pearl’s, but not by that much. Well, the Pearl must have at least made Syracuse a big time, household name program when he joined the team, right, ala Patrick at Georgetown? Um, doubtful. Syracuse was already an established program by the time he got there. I can argue that the things that made Syracuse more of a household name were the rise of the Big East and the opening of the Carrier Dome. Granted the Pearl helped fill that dome and his play allowed Boeheim to attract higher caliber players from across the country, but he wasn't necessarily that once in a generation player at his position that can alter a program forever. Iverson was a once in a generation talent, but I’m not arguing he was a game changer for his program either. But that further reinforces my argument that his impact on college ball wasn’t merely a fraction to what Pearl’s was. Casual sports fans have some awareness of the name Ralph Sampson even though the big guy played in the early 80s, won absolutely nothing in college basketball and had a disappointing pro career. The Pearl fits that same description except for the part about casual sports fans having an awareness of who he is/was. You can’t claim that Iverson’s impact was only a fraction to a guy like that if that guy has mostly been forgotten or never known to most of today’s casual sports fans. Surely the Pearl must rank as one of the all-time greats in college basketball if Iverson didn’t mean a fraction to college hoops as him. Wrong. You rarely if ever see the guy listed as one of the top 50 college basketball players of all time. In fact in 2004 Street & Smith published a magazine special listing the 100 Greatest College Players of all time. The list, like all lists, is far from perfect (Ewing is only at #15, while Jordan somehow is ahead of him at #13). Still the magazine used 40 highly regarded college hoops experts to come up with the names and rankings. You know where The Pearl ended up? Nowhere. He didn’t make the list. Perhaps not ever making AP First Team hurt him in the end. By the way Iverson ended up as #84 on that same list. Not shabby for a guy who played one less season than Dwayne Washington. Kenny Anderson, another New York high school legend like The Pearl, was listed at #98, despite also playing one less season. Look, if one wants to argue that Iverson’s impact on the college game wasn’t as big overall as The Pearl, then one can make a convincing case for that I suppose. Just don’t go overboard with all that hyperbole regarding Iverson only being a fraction in terms of impact to the college game that the Pearl was. The poster making the claim seems to suggest that those who don’t buy into that viewpoint are too young to know better. But one can turn it around and say that he is too old to realize how impactful Iverson was to a large number of very young Americans, from toddlers to teens, who only got into college hoops BECAUSE of Iverson. Iverson’s shoe sales his rookie season in the NBA didn’t happen because overnight fans across the country discovered him. It happened because he became a phenom while in college and built a fanbase that the Pearl would have likely been envious of. Iverson, flaws and all, single-handedly made Georgetown both relevant again and must-see TV. And if JT Jr had been a more effective recruiter at that stage, or still had the passion for recruiting, Georgetown would have benefitted as much from Iverson’s college career as Syracuse did as a result of The Pearl’s. I was there in person for most of those 'Cuse - Hoyas matchups and I agree. Pearl was fun to watch and a heck of a player and of course he had an impact on Syracuse and the Big East (Boeheim even says signing Pearl was a turning point for his program) but there is definitely some hyperbole going on there and in the Requiem piece.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Mar 21, 2014 10:16:41 GMT -5
I am shocked that the Newhouse Alumni Club would overly glorify an Orangeman.
There has never been any Syracuse player that meant as much to the BE as Ewing did or Mullin for that matter.
As for Fat Pearl, he was a classic example of a talented slob who got no better in college. He was very talented and very exciting and worked not all to improve or expand his game under Magoo.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 21, 2014 10:55:09 GMT -5
I am shocked that the Newhouse Alumni Club would overly glorify an Orangeman. There has never been any Syracuse player that meant as much to the BE as Ewing did or Mullin for that matter. As for Fat Pearl, he was a classic example of a talented slob who got no better in college. He was very talented and very exciting and worked not all to improve or expand his game under Magoo. My favorite "Fat Pearl" anecdote was when one of the big men at SU, while at dinner with the team, stuck plump olives on all five fingers and chortled "Hey, I got a whole team of Pearl Washingtons!"
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blueeagle
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Win or lose, it's the school we choose.
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Post by blueeagle on Mar 25, 2014 21:11:35 GMT -5
For me, one of the most compelling scenes in the documentary was when Ed Pinkney admitted to owning a pair of Hoya Destroya Nike kicks while he was playing for Nova. Just take a minute and realize what that means. The Georgetown Hoyas transcended basketball and sports and became a part of the cultural fabric in the 1980's. You can argue the unique circumstances that the Hoyas brand enjoyed during that era with the emergence of rap and cable television - influences that have have been watered down in this current era of youtube, twitter, and instagram sensationalism. But can you imagine a UNC player rocking a Duke jersey or an OSU player sporting Spartan colors because it was cool? No way, no how.
The last time an NCAA basketball team had any cultural relevance even close to the Hoyas in the 80's was the Fab Five in the mid-90's. No true OSU player would wear blue and gold gear, but they all sure wore black socks with their black hightops back then.
My point in bringing this up is to illustrate the important cultural legacy of the Georgetown brand. For people that grew up with the Hoyas in the 80's, this program meant something more than what transpired on the basketball court. I am pretty sure JTIII understands this legacy better than most people who follow the program.
We honor our past, but the future is what we make of it. I am proud to be a supporter of this program.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Mar 26, 2014 7:45:27 GMT -5
For me, one of the most compelling scenes in the documentary was when Ed Pinkney admitted to owning a pair of Hoya Destroya Nike kicks while he was playing for Nova. Just take a minute and realize what that means. The Georgetown Hoyas transcended basketball and sports and became a part of the cultural fabric in the 1980's. You can argue the unique circumstances that the Hoyas brand enjoyed during that era with the emergence of rap and cable television - influences that have have been watered down in this current era of youtube, twitter, and instagram sensationalism. But can you imagine a UNC player rocking a Duke jersey or an OSU player sporting Spartan colors because it was cool? No way, no how. The last time an NCAA basketball team had any cultural relevance even close to the Hoyas in the 80's was the Fab Five in the mid-90's. No true OSU player would wear blue and gold gear, but they all sure wore black socks with their black hightops back then. My point in bringing this up is to illustrate the important cultural legacy of the Georgetown brand. For people that grew up with the Hoyas in the 80's, this program meant something more than what transpired on the basketball court. I am pretty sure JTIII understands this legacy better than most people who follow the program. We honor our past, but the future is what we make of it. I am proud to be a supporter of this program. An excellent point that many on the board here may not fully appreciate. It was much more than just a simple cultural relavance and far surpassed whatever one would think of the Fab Five.
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WVHoyasfan
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GREATEST HOYA EVER!!!!!
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Post by WVHoyasfan on Mar 29, 2014 23:42:38 GMT -5
That show brung back a lot of memory's for me. The abuse that Gtown took from every fan all across the nation is why I became a Hoya fan.I could not stand seeing them get treated like that and people holler and throw stuff at them like they was garbage.
Now to me that is how BE basketball should be played b/c that's what I grew up watching and loving. Almost every team was good and they all wanted to knock your teeth out when they played. Just watching that show I seen first hand how far Gtown basketball has fallen!! They were some talented players on those Gtown teams and they knew how to play the game.I want Gtown to get that back but with JT3 here we will never see those glory days
I had one complaint about the show.. When they started talking about WVU why did they show a video that looked like it was in the early 19 hundreds 4 or 5 poor people playing banjo's wearing overhalls ? That's not right people and whoever the guy is that made this show should apolizise to the teams of West Virginia,the people who live in West Virginia and to the state of West Virginia. West Virginia done and achomplished a lot in the BE. They kept the BE alive when everybody was putting down the conference yet the guy didn't feel the need to show all of that except for the black and white video of the family. That wasn't right and and he should come out and say he is sorry.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by EasyEd on Mar 30, 2014 7:30:08 GMT -5
WV they just parroted what some posters on Hoyatalk do in poking fun at WV, calling them hicks and worse.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 30, 2014 7:42:15 GMT -5
The producer of the documentary, Ezra Edelman, is the son of Peter Edelman, a law professor at GU Law Center (and former Clinton appointee at HHS who resigned in protest of Clinton's welfare reform) and Marian Wright Edelman, founder and President of the Children's Defense Fund. I wouldn't think his parents would appreciate the mockery displayed in the brief clip in the documentary.
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by miracles87 on Mar 30, 2014 10:14:59 GMT -5
I had one complaint about the show.. When they started talking about WVU why did they show a video that looked like it was in the early 19 hundreds 4 or 5 poor people playing banjo's wearing overhalls ? That's not right people and whoever the guy is that made this show should apolizise to the teams of West Virginia,the people who live in West Virginia and to the state of West Virginia. West Virginia done and achomplished a lot in the BE. They kept the BE alive when everybody was putting down the conference yet the guy didn't feel the need to show all of that except for the black and white video of the family. That wasn't right and and he should come out and say he is sorry. I agree WV, that made absolutely no sense. Especially considering how much lip service was paid to the appalling racism exhibited in response to Patrick Ewing. I think it's safe to say that was some serious hypocrisy by the filmmaker. Also, WVU may have been a dance with the devil in terms of football, but they were a great b-ball addition to the Big East. I have great respect for Beilein and Huggy, not to mention Pittsnogle and Butler and many other great players. That was a fun rivalry.
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Post by sleepy21 on Mar 30, 2014 20:28:43 GMT -5
JR Rider shredded us for 40 pts in '93 i think. unlv blew our doors off. that was the most dominant performance against us i have ever watched. I agree. In 30+ years of watching the the Hoyas, JR Rider's performance sticks out from the rest. Completely dominated the Hoyas defense.
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WVHoyasfan
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GREATEST HOYA EVER!!!!!
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Post by WVHoyasfan on Mar 30, 2014 22:29:21 GMT -5
I had one complaint about the show.. When they started talking about WVU why did they show a video that looked like it was in the early 19 hundreds 4 or 5 poor people playing banjo's wearing overhalls ? That's not right people and whoever the guy is that made this show should apolizise to the teams of West Virginia,the people who live in West Virginia and to the state of West Virginia. West Virginia done and achomplished a lot in the BE. They kept the BE alive when everybody was putting down the conference yet the guy didn't feel the need to show all of that except for the black and white video of the family. That wasn't right and and he should come out and say he is sorry. I agree WV, that made absolutely no sense. Especially considering how much lip service was paid to the appalling racism exhibited in response to Patrick Ewing. I think it's safe to say that was some serious hypocrisy by the filmmaker. Also, WVU may have been a dance with the devil in terms of football, but they were a great b-ball addition to the Big East. I have great respect for Beilein and Huggy, not to mention Pittsnogle and Butler and many other great players. That was a fun rivalry. That's exactly right Miracle!! I just don't get it after all the racist stuff that he put on there that Gtown had to go threw. Im glad they showed how Gtown was treated on the show b/c it shows how low people can go to try to hurt others. Then to turn around and put crap like that on there about my state and the people who live in the state is like being racist him self to the state of WV.Its nothing but hypocrisy by the guy who made this show and the guy really needs to look into a mirror at him self and do some major thinking b/c he droped the ball on this one bug time.
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757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by 757hoyafan on Apr 1, 2014 16:42:29 GMT -5
That show brung back a lot of memory's for me. The abuse that Gtown took from every fan all across the nation is why I became a Hoya fan.I could not stand seeing them get treated like that and people holler and throw stuff at them like they was garbage. Now to me that is how BE basketball should be played b/c that's what I grew up watching and loving. Almost every team was good and they all wanted to knock your teeth out when they played. Just watching that show I seen first hand how far Gtown basketball has fallen!! They were some talented players on those Gtown teams and they knew how to play the game.I want Gtown to get that back but with JT3 here we will never see those glory days I had one complaint about the show.. When they started talking about WVU why did they show a video that looked like it was in the early 19 hundreds 4 or 5 poor people playing banjo's wearing overhalls ? That's not right people and whoever the guy is that made this show should apolizise to the teams of West Virginia,the people who live in West Virginia and to the state of West Virginia. West Virginia done and achomplished a lot in the BE. They kept the BE alive when everybody was putting down the conference yet the guy didn't feel the need to show all of that except for the black and white video of the family. That wasn't right and and he should come out and say he is sorry. Too funny!
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Hoya Rich
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by Hoya Rich on Apr 2, 2014 19:19:43 GMT -5
Enjoyed the show very much. My 15-year old son really got a kick out of JTII, particularly his quotes in response to "How does it feel to be the first African-American coach to win an N.C.?" It was amazing the ease with which John dispatched with that kind of nonsense. "Black, green, red, brown, white... a Northeast team hasn't won the National Championship in 30 years!"
I thought Pinckney added some great sound bytes to the proceedings, as when commenting on seeing Patrick play for the first time at a high school event. Something along the lines of, "I realized just how far ahead of me he was, and how far I had to go to get anywhere close to his level."
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Post by friscotxhoya on Apr 2, 2014 19:33:52 GMT -5
I was working out at my gym the other day and, as I often do, went to shoot some. There was a guy there setting up to do some personal hoops training. He noticed my Georgetown shirt (or maybe he was amused by a old guy shooting jumpers)and walked over to strike up a conversation. He introduced himself as an "old Big East guy" and said he went to Boston College in the 80's. We talked about the Requiem show and he said he wished they would have mentioned the fact that in 1985, BC lost to Memphis State by one point in the regional finals and, but for that, there would have been 4 Big East teams in the Final Four. He was pretty intense about it, so I asked him if he had played at BC. Turns out it was Stuart Primus. We talked about how he his high school in Lynn, Mass a big rival with Rindge & Latin and Patrick, even though they were in different size classifications. Nice guy, enjoyable to talk with.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Apr 3, 2014 12:29:47 GMT -5
That show brung back a lot of memory's for me. The abuse that Gtown took from every fan all across the nation is why I became a Hoya fan.I could not stand seeing them get treated like that and people holler and throw stuff at them like they was garbage. Now to me that is how BE basketball should be played b/c that's what I grew up watching and loving. Almost every team was good and they all wanted to knock your teeth out when they played. Just watching that show I seen first hand how far Gtown basketball has fallen!! They were some talented players on those Gtown teams and they knew how to play the game.I want Gtown to get that back but with JT3 here we will never see those glory days I had one complaint about the show.. When they started talking about WVU why did they show a video that looked like it was in the early 19 hundreds 4 or 5 poor people playing banjo's wearing overhalls ? That's not right people and whoever the guy is that made this show should apolizise to the teams of West Virginia,the people who live in West Virginia and to the state of West Virginia. West Virginia done and achomplished a lot in the BE. They kept the BE alive when everybody was putting down the conference yet the guy didn't feel the need to show all of that except for the black and white video of the family. That wasn't right and and he should come out and say he is sorry. Too funny! Really funny ..this dude obviously does not know what he is talking about LOL...JT3 does not play and make decisions on the court near the end of games...this is on ur point guard...I knew this would start with coach bashing ...some people just don't get it...
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 3, 2014 14:43:16 GMT -5
I was working out at my gym the other day and, as I often do, went to shoot some. There was a guy there setting up to do some personal hoops training. He noticed my Georgetown shirt (or maybe he was amused by a old guy shooting jumpers)and walked over to strike up a conversation. He introduced himself as an "old Big East guy" and said he went to Boston College in the 80's. We talked about the Requiem show and he said he wished they would have mentioned the fact that in 1985, BC lost to Memphis State by one point in the regional finals and, but for that, there would have been 4 Big East teams in the Final Four. He was pretty intense about it, so I asked him if he had played at BC. Turns out it was Stuart Primus. We talked about how he his high school in Lynn, Mass a big rival with Rindge & Latin and Patrick, even though they were in different size classifications. Nice guy, enjoyable to talk with. Didn't he mean there would have been 3 Big East schools and an ACC school?? Did you ask him how it felt for his school to turn traitor? But it is a pretty cool story.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Apr 4, 2014 11:53:26 GMT -5
WVu deserves everything they get. I have little problem their treatment in Requiem. Many here, myself included have gone on about SU fans but believe me going to Morgantown makes Syracuse on its worse day like an afternoon in the Virgin Islands. Been Witness to far too many football games not pretty. But for you to comeout with the statement "They kept the Big East Alive" is beyond almost anything thats ever been said here. From the day they joined they actively campaigned to get out even though they had little to offer any conference. Some in Providence at the time will admit that the provocation caused by WV led to a lack of any compromises between Football and Basketball in and around 2000 that opened the door for the initial raid by the ACC.
Exactly how did they keep the BE alive. There are a few football ADs at the time who will privatley lay much of the initial breakup on WVU. I ask the question are they still even playing football last decent win they had was against SU in that big Pinstripe Bowl.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Apr 4, 2014 12:26:32 GMT -5
WVu deserves everything they get. I have little problem their treatment in Requiem. Many here, myself included have gone on about SU fans but believe me going to Morgantown makes Syracuse on its worse day like an afternoon in the Virgin Islands. Been Witness to far too many football games not pretty. But for you to comeout with the statement "They kept the Big East Alive" is beyond almost anything thats ever been said here. From the day they joined they actively campaigned to get out even though they had little to offer any conference. Some in Providence at the time will admit that the provocation caused by WV led to a lack of any compromises between Football and Basketball in and around 2000 that opened the door for the initial raid by the ACC. Exactly how did they keep the BE alive. There are a few football ADs at the time who will privatley lay much of the initial breakup on WVU. I ask the question are they still even playing football last decent win they had was against SU in that big Pinstripe Bowl. Nothing you say is really wrong. On the other hand, nothing you say changes the fact that it was a completely classless and hypocritical move by the filmmaker to include that.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by thebin on Apr 4, 2014 13:07:00 GMT -5
"We talked about the Requiem show and he said he wished they would have mentioned the fact that in 1985, BC lost to Memphis State by one point in the regional finals and, but for that, there would have been 4 Big East teams in the Final Four...."
Wait...he's right. That's bananas that wasn't mentioned. I didn't even know that was true. Pretty shocked to only learn of it now. Strangely under-reported facet of that great year. No excuse for a 2 hour doc focusing on the dominance of the league to neglect it.
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