TC
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Post by TC on Mar 9, 2014 4:37:55 GMT -5
quickplay - checked the site you referenced- it does not refute the numbers cited in my post- the source is Guttmacher, an affiliate of Planned Parenthood, and even it says more than 1 million abortions a year. After decades of "sex education and availability of contraceptive devices", what's your explanation? That you don't understand percentages vs. counting numbers?
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hoyaloya
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Post by hoyaloya on Mar 11, 2014 20:15:33 GMT -5
TC The quintupling of out of wedlock births since the 60s is documented here in percentages. www.childtrends.org/?indicators=births-to-unmarried-womenAs for your question -is giving birth out of wedlock better than killing the baby. Absolutely. But is it something to “celebrate”? No. We are “living with it” with indisputably harmful social results. Further proof that “sex education and available contraceptive devices” did not deliver what was promised by its advocates – that there would be no unintended pregnancies and so no need for abortion. Abortions have been declining in numbers since 1990 when abortions peaked at more than 1.6 million. That is good and I am glad BUT one cannot rejoice when the number of killings annually continues to exceed more than one million! www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/graphusabrate.htmlAnd was the decline due to more than 2 decades of sex education and readily available contraceptives suddenly kicking in? Or is the more likely explanation 2 other events. The sex-without-consequences attitude [don’t worry-you can always get an abortion] was significantly altered with the epidemic of deaths due to AIDS. The legislation to ban partial birth abortions sparked public debate that broke through the mass media suppression of the details of abortion procedures. Many became aware that partial birth abortion meant extracting the entire baby from the womb but her head, puncturing her neck with a scissors, sucking out her brains and collapsing her skull. Moral revulsion entered the equation. An example of fact suppression – I submitted a letter to the editor to a local newspaper on the subject of abortion on demand. It included the above description. I received a call from one of the editors that my letter would be printed only if I omitted that description. He did not contend it was inaccurate but that it was “inappropriate for a family newspaper.” Yet that family newspaper had no difficulty editorializing for abortion on demand, and no problem with keeping from its readers just what an abortion involved. Nor is it just partial birth abortion that is horrifying. Have you seen these descriptions of other methods of abortion in the mass media? In suction aspiration, a hollow tube with a knife-like edged tip is inserted in the womb and a strong suction tears the developing body to pieces and draws the pieces into a container. In dilation and curettage, a loop shaped knife is inserted and cuts the body apart and scrapes the pieces out through the cervix. In dilation and evacuation, a grasping forceps (like pliers with teeth) is used when the bones have calcified to a point where the parts must be twisted and torn away. Sometimes the head must be crushed in order to be removed. In saline amniocentesis, a concentrated salt solution is injected into the amniotic sac. The solution is ingested, with death resulting from salt poisoning, dehydration, hemorrhages of the brain and other organs, and convulsions. The skin is often stripped or burned off by the solution.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 13, 2014 8:58:22 GMT -5
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 13, 2014 9:00:26 GMT -5
Looks like my link will not work. Google National Catholic Register to find the article.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 13, 2014 9:02:55 GMT -5
"In an April 4 letter Archbishop Angelo Vincenzo Zani, the secretary of the Congregation for Catholic Education, stated that technical impediments prevented the department from granting the petitioners’ request for “hierarchic recourse.”
But Archbishop Zani left offered hope that the Vatican would pursue the matter further.
“Your communications to this Dicastery in the matter of Georgetown University … constitute a well-founded complaint,” wrote Archbishop Zani. “Our Congregation is taking the issue seriously, and is cooperating with the Society of Jesus in this regard.”
Archbishop Zani’s response fell short of Blatty’s request for a formal assessment of Georgetown’s adherence to Ex Corde Ecclesiae (On Catholic Universities), St. John Paul II’s apostolic constitution that directs Catholic universities to adhere to Catholic teaching and advance the mission of the Church in their institutional culture, faculty hiring and retention, curricula and student affairs.
However, Blatty remains optimistic that his ultimate goal — the revival and strengthening of Georgetown’s Catholic identity — will gain traction as the Holy See’s talks with the Society of Jesus move forward."
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TC
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Post by TC on May 13, 2014 11:41:00 GMT -5
However, Blatty remains optimistic that his ultimate goal — the revival and strengthening of Georgetown’s Catholic identity — will gain traction as the Holy See’s talks with the Society of Jesus move forward." He knows he lost and is trying to save face. Ironic that he says his goal is strengthening Catholic identity - if he doesn't get his way completely, he'd like to burn the University's Catholic identity to the ground.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on May 13, 2014 12:52:20 GMT -5
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hoyaloya
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Post by hoyaloya on May 22, 2014 12:09:23 GMT -5
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on May 23, 2014 8:16:55 GMT -5
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on May 23, 2014 8:27:20 GMT -5
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on May 23, 2014 8:49:01 GMT -5
I for one do not want Georgetown to limit its exploration of life, science, spirituality, culture, anything. The crocodile tears over inviting Kathleen Sebelius to speak are transparent.
Being the loudest, surest voice does not mean that Blatty is some sort of gatekeeper for true Catholicism. It isn't even a matter of ideological purity; anyone who has attempted to live in their faith will early on accept that compromises have to be made between many different tenets and sources of their religion.
This version being pushed is just that, a version. You're dealing with a world that is ready to move beyond the narrow focuses of right-wing Catholicism, one that is tired of selective faith and enforcement masquerading as authentic.
Go on and keep crying about your own versions of Catholicism not being adquately enforced. The hypocrisy of the church, of this selective view of faith and truth - the Church both institutionally and morally does not have the authority it once did. I'll be sure to tell my grandchildren one day that as Catholicism spiraled towards irrelevance in the modern world, it wasn't because the words and teachings of Jesus no longer applied, it was because an angry but loud subset confused their own inability to let go of the world they knew growing up with the younger generations' inability to see the truth.
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hoyaloya
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Post by hoyaloya on May 23, 2014 11:46:02 GMT -5
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 23, 2014 12:07:16 GMT -5
I for one do not want Georgetown to limit its exploration of life, science, spirituality, culture, anything. The crocodile tears over inviting Kathleen Sebelius to speak are transparent. Being the loudest, surest voice does not mean that Blatty is some sort of gatekeeper for true Catholicism. It isn't even a matter of ideological purity; anyone who has attempted to live in their faith will early on accept that compromises have to be made between many different tenets and sources of their religion. This version being pushed is just that, a version. You're dealing with a world that is ready to move beyond the narrow focuses of right-wing Catholicism, one that is tired of selective faith and enforcement masquerading as authentic. Go on and keep crying about your own versions of Catholicism not being adquately enforced. The hypocrisy of the church, of this selective view of faith and truth - the Church both institutionally and morally does not have the authority it once did. I'll be sure to tell my grandchildren one day that as Catholicism spiraled towards irrelevance in the modern world, it wasn't because the words and teachings of Jesus no longer applied, it was because an angry but loud subset confused their own inability to let go of the world they knew growing up with the younger generations' inability to see the truth. Despite your claims, the number of Catholics in the world grew about 83% from 1970 to the present, slightly more than overall population growth, the biggest growth (33%) in Africa. Only religion with faster growth: Muslim. In 2013 there were an estimated 1.2 Billion Catholics. In this country, however, the number of Catholics regularly attending Mass has shrunk dramatically, as has the number who accept the full set of Catholic beliefs. A series of almost simultaneous things contributed to this: (1) the “sexual revolution”; (2) Vietnam Was protests; (3) Vatican II; (4) Pope Paul VI’s “Humana Vitae”; and, (5) civil disobedience in the Civil Rights movement. These led to distrust of all authority, including Catholic hierarchy, and an atmosphere conducive to priestly abuse of the young. What has followed is extreme libertarianism regarding moral choices: divorce no longer frowned upon but left to the individual; abortion no longer shunned but individual choice as to right or wrong. Illegal drugs wrong only if I decide they are wrong. If something is hard to do, I just won’t do it. If it feels good, do it. There are no absolute rights and wrongs in so many things. We see the results: rampant alcohol and drug use, including on college campuses; breakup of the family with almost half of marriages in divorce and almost half of children born out of wedlock; low-income single women raising their children; greed and corruption in corporate America and in government; widespread violence; pornography and gory violence passing as mainstream entertainment and, Catholics turning their backs on their church. As for the Catholic Church, I believe it will survive and prosper in direct proportion to its adherence to the ways of God as outlined in the Catechism, rather than the ways of the world as espoused by so many today. Stealing is either wrong or not wrong; abortion is either wrong or not wrong; out of wedlock sex is either wrong or not wrong; pornography is either wrong or not wrong. Something cannot be and not be at the same time.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 23, 2014 12:25:41 GMT -5
In this country, however, the number of Catholics regularly attending Mass has shrunk dramatically, as has the number who accept the full set of Catholic beliefs. Mass attendance has actually gone up, but as they say, the devil is in the details. nineteensixty-four.blogspot.com/2009/09/nuances-of-accurately-measuring-mass.htmlAs for self-identification, the Protestant numbers have declined. Since LDS isn't considered technically Protestant by definition, that may account for some of the gap.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on May 23, 2014 12:27:45 GMT -5
The Church's growing influence in the third world is a product of lack of choice. I'd be concerned with the fact that as societies progress and develop, the Catholic Church becomes more irrelevant.
"If something is hard to do, I just won’t do it. If it feels good, do it. There are no absolute rights and wrongs in so many things." This is just a thing you're saying, there's really nothing substantive to respond to.
War is wrong or not wrong. The death penalty is wrong or not wrong. Poverty is wrong or not wrong. We can all pretend we have the key to what the Church should be focusing on.
There are teachings of Jesus, and there are historical intepretations of the Church. The latter has been guiding the Church for a long time, and it has been coinciding with a particular worldview that many see as removed from Jesus' message.
The Church has no one to blame but itself for its failings. A 'conducive atmosphere' outside the Church being partially blamed for Catholic abuses and intentional coverups is a joke. It's an institution, and it is fading from relevancy because the institution deserves to fade. For the choices of the men who run it, not the message they've perverted.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on May 23, 2014 16:36:37 GMT -5
Why any school would want to be associated with the institution best known for harboring child rapists is beyond me. Go Blatty, indeed.
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on May 23, 2014 19:24:28 GMT -5
Easy Ed, it was nice to hear "The Principle of Contradiction" articulated again, even in a shorthand form. But as for you, hoya9797, your shocking characterization of the priesthood in general is venomous beyond belief. And ignorant beyond belief as well: In a study conducted by Hoftra University a few years ago, it was concluded that the chances of a public school student being sexually molested by a teacher or school administrator were 100 times -- are you getting this? -- 100 times greater than for a pupil in a Catholic school. You call yourself a Hoya? That turns my stomach.
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on May 24, 2014 6:52:45 GMT -5
Easy Ed, it was nice to hear "The Principle of Contradiction" articulated again, even in a shorthand form. But as for you, hoya9797, your shocking characterization of the priesthood in general is venomous beyond belief. And ignorant beyond belief as well: In a study conducted by Hoftra University a few years ago, it was concluded that the chances of a public school student being sexually molested by a teacher or school administrator were 100 times -- are you getting this? -- 100 times greater than for a pupil in a Catholic school. You call yourself a Hoya? That turns my stomach. Yeah I read a summary of that article and that statistic is meaningless because they didn't control for percentage of students in public school vs catholic school. There are more than 100 times the number of public schools in this country than catholic schools. It would be like me saying there are 100 times more murderers in California than South Dakota. Doesn't tell me anything unless I know the population of both. But ignoring the statistics game. If my kid is molested by a teacher in public school and I call the cops they investigate. If my kid is molested in catholic school, too many times the church was allowed to investigate and swept it under the rug. Also considering I would think almost everyone feels a stronger sense of trust and commitment from their religious faith than their local government it's a much worse betrayal. I don't expect my local public school to teach my kids how to be good people or develop a moral framework for them but I may entrust some of that responsibility to my priest and staff members of the catholic school my child attends. That is part of the reason I would pay for their education. Defenders of the church can rationalize a million different ways to justify the awful things they did, and perhaps may be still doing but ask yourself this. If this scandal wasn't about the Catholic Church but instead in another religious institution with whom you didn't place your faith, would you be so quick to defend the actions of people shielding child molesters from the legal prosecution they deserve?
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on May 24, 2014 9:01:51 GMT -5
Edited. Please contact Admin.
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CWS
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Post by CWS on May 24, 2014 9:10:38 GMT -5
The Church messed up. There's no way to sugar coat it. Pope Francis ApologizesThere were some mitigating circumstances (e.g., the failure early on to recognize that the problem was a deeply psychological one and not some moral failure that could be treated through prayer, the difficulty in canon law to laicize guilty priests), but the failures to address the behavior are a scandal in the traditional sense of the word (i.e., a stone that causes the faithful to trip, stumble, lose faith). That said, these failures don't define the Church or the good news it preaches. And there is at least some scientific studies that indicate that the ideals of religious belief do continue to inspire good behavior: philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-More/143273/I'm not trying to argue who's better (religious or non-religious), but just to complicate the picture and say that the sexual abuse scandal is not the essence of religion.
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