pertinax
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Post by pertinax on Mar 6, 2014 16:48:54 GMT -5
"Is that article supposed to present something new?" Well, apparently it's something new to you, namely that "The Pope loves Georgetown" doesn't mean he loves the Georgetown of today. It's good to see that everyone can put their own words into the Pope's mouth. DISCLAIMER: posted as a board participant, NOT as a moderator, as I know you have difficulty separating the two. Quoting Pope Francis: www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1400916.htm
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on Mar 6, 2014 16:52:45 GMT -5
No, Dan. With all due respect, it is you who has difficulty distinguishing what you as a moderator does and what a moderator by every definition of the word and every known tradition, is supposed to do which is to moderate and not to intrude. Create a thread of your own with someone else as moderator and then you will be legitimately entitled to lay out your thoughts as much and as often as you please.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 6, 2014 17:26:10 GMT -5
No, Dan. With all due respect, it is you who has difficulty distinguishing what you as a moderator does and what a moderator by every definition of the word and every known tradition, is supposed to do which is to moderate and not to intrude. Create a thread of your own with someone else as moderator and then you will be legitimately entitled to lay out your thoughts as much and as often as you please. We are not going to have another discussion about this. When I post here and specifically indicate I am not posting as a moderator as I did above, I am posting as a board participant whose opinions and voice have equal legitimacy to everyone else, including yours. I could make up a separate board name/handle to hide behind and post under that but have not and will not. While I appreciate your valiant attempt to negate my opinion by obfuscation and parsing the term moderator in almost Clintonian fashion, you don't make the rules here. Perhaps if you actually listened to what our pope is saying you'd have an easier time of it.
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pertinax
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 131
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Post by pertinax on Mar 27, 2014 15:08:26 GMT -5
Judging from this A.P. story, one might not find it a stretch to believe that Pope Francis loves Obama about as much as he loves Georgetown: By Doyle McM EditedMarch 27, 2014, 10:15 a.m. When Jorge Mario Bergoglio became Pope Francis a little more than a year ago, the first thing that struck those who knew him well was his unexpected, beatific smile. “In Argentina, he didn’t smile like that,” Sergio Rubin, the pope’s biographer, said this week at a conference sponsored by the Ethics and Public Policy Center. “That was the big surprise.” Since then, the pope has mostly kept on smiling — in homilies, in audiences, in meetings with the homeless and the poor. If you look at the pictures from Francis’ meeting with President Obama on Thursday, though, the smile is there only some of the time. It’s almost as though the pontiff was reminding himself that Obama needed this meeting more than he did, and he didn’t want to give the impression that the church’s disagreements with the White House could be erased in a single hour of cordiality. PHOTOS: Pope Francis' small steps to lift liberals' hearts But let’s not read too much into a few pictures. Look, instead, at the starchy statement the Vatican media office issued before the meeting. It noted that the two men were meeting during “a complex phase of the administration's relations with the church of the United States, marked, in particular, by controversy on the implementation of healthcare reform (the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, commonly known as Obamacare) having to do with rules on mandatory healthcare coverage of sterilization, contraception and abortion; and on other issues at the center of public debate in the United States, such as the legalization of homosexual marriages.” Ouch! And look at the parting gift the pope gave the president: a bound copy of his 2013 letter to the faithful, “The Joy of the Gospel” — the one that became famous for its critique of trickle-down economics. “I actually will probably read this in the Oval Office when I’m deeply frustrated,” Obama said. “I’m sure it will give me strength and calm me down.” If the president actually does read the pontiff’s letter, he’ll find that though it’s joyful, it isn’t always comforting. Most of the letter is a bracing call to Roman Catholics to take up the challenge of spreading the Gospel. There’s a whole chapter, for example, on how to give more effective sermons; that’s advice any politician might find useful. But there’s also a strong reminder that the church still believes that there are “objective moral norms which are valid for everyone.” And there’s a full-throated defense of traditional Catholic teaching on abortion, which Francis complains is too often criticized as “ideological, obscurantist and conservative.” “This defense of unborn life is closely linked to the defense of each and every other human right,” the pope argues. “Once this conviction disappears, so do solid and lasting foundations for the defense of human rights, which would always be subject to the passing whims of the powers that be.” So, Mr. President, happy reading. But you may find yourself challenged as much as calmed, and that may be what Pope Francis intended. Story link
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on Mar 27, 2014 16:47:42 GMT -5
POPE FRANCIS LOVING OBAMA
/Users/hoya7/Desktop/la-ol-obama-pope-francis-abortion-20140327-001.jpeg
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Mar 28, 2014 8:57:56 GMT -5
I always find it amusing when professed devout Catholics "defend" the faith with a tone that is judgmental, dismissive, and hateful of those with whom they disagree. The Gospel doesn't spent a whole lot of time on issues like abortion, homosexuality, birth control, and the other agenda issues. It does spend an awful lot of time reminding all of us to love and forgive, even and especially those who need it most. (And let's not forget there are a few lessons on not judging others.)
What I (and many) adore the most about Pope Francis is that he clearly emphasizes the teachings of love and forgiveness first. As the world increasingly becomes more bitter, partisan, and divisive, the focus on love and forgiveness is refreshing and gives me hope.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 28, 2014 10:16:26 GMT -5
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Mar 28, 2014 15:41:25 GMT -5
I always find it amusing when professed devout Catholics "defend" the faith with a tone that is judgmental, dismissive, and hateful of those with whom they disagree. The Gospel doesn't spent a whole lot of time on issues like abortion, homosexuality, birth control, and the other agenda issues. It does spend an awful lot of time reminding all of us to love and forgive, even and especially those who need it most. (And let's not forget there are a few lessons on not judging others.) What I (and many) adore the most about Pope Francis is that he clearly emphasizes the teachings of love and forgiveness first. As the world increasingly becomes more bitter, partisan, and divisive, the focus on love and forgiveness is refreshing and gives me hope. I find your post judgmental, dismissive and hateful to those who disagree with you.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Mar 28, 2014 17:58:22 GMT -5
I always find it amusing when professed devout Catholics "defend" the faith with a tone that is judgmental, dismissive, and hateful of those with whom they disagree. The Gospel doesn't spent a whole lot of time on issues like abortion, homosexuality, birth control, and the other agenda issues. It does spend an awful lot of time reminding all of us to love and forgive, even and especially those who need it most. (And let's not forget there are a few lessons on not judging others.) What I (and many) adore the most about Pope Francis is that he clearly emphasizes the teachings of love and forgiveness first. As the world increasingly becomes more bitter, partisan, and divisive, the focus on love and forgiveness is refreshing and gives me hope. I find your post judgmental, dismissive and hateful to those who disagree with you. Nothing in my post was judgmental, dismissive or hateful and I apologize if I offended you, Ed. I definitely don't always agree with you, but I've always perceived your point of view as one that comes out of love and faith.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Mar 28, 2014 19:02:36 GMT -5
I believe this part was judgmental and dismissive: "I always find it amusing when professed devout Catholics "defend" the faith with a tone that is judgmental, dismissive, and hateful of those with whom they disagree." Maybe not hateful, so I apologize for that.
There are many self-described devout Catholics that think they are free to pick and choose which parts of Catholic beliefs they accept. These are not devout Catholics. Devout Catholics accept it all, including loving your neighbor and enemies, judging no one, caring for the poor, and opposing the killing of human beings to include abortion and capital punishment. If this is judgmental, dismissive and hateful, I'll have to work on that.
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on Mar 30, 2014 17:46:52 GMT -5
Hating the sinner is frequently patting him on the head and saying, "No, no, it's okay to put up with infanticide, it's just a shame that folks don't understand where you're coming from on that score. Meantime, keep it up and for godssake don't worry: Christ never talked about abortion in the gospels, and anyway Hell probably doesn't even exist." That's your idea of love, Ed? I'm truly surprised at you. Christ was not a Judean "Pajama Boy." He didn't hesitate to denounce the Pharisees as "whited sepulchers," or to take a whip of cords to the money-changers at the temple, just as one should not give another bottle of gin to an alcoholic or another shot of heroin to an addict. True love means drawing the sinner away from that which would in the end destroy the only precious thing he possesses which is his immortal soul. Not to recognize this, I believe, is to think that love means telling your child it's okay to keep playing in the traffic.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Mar 31, 2014 7:55:44 GMT -5
So Ed says in areas where he fundamentally disagrees with other people on what it means to be a Catholic, he will attempt to make sure the people with whom he disagrees don't feel hated or dismissed.
And that is twisted into patronizingly telling children it's okay to go play in traffic?
To me, that illustrates the difference between devotion and fundamentalistism.
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CWS
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Post by CWS on Mar 31, 2014 8:32:55 GMT -5
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 31, 2014 9:13:44 GMT -5
So Ed says in areas where he fundamentally disagrees with other people on what it means to be a Catholic, he will attempt to make sure the people with whom he disagrees don't feel hated or dismissed. And that is twisted into patronizingly telling children it's okay to go play in traffic? To me, that illustrates the difference between devotion and fundamentalistism. Or perhaps the difference between a cult and a religion? I am having a difficult time understanding the difference, frankly, given some of the comments seen here. I find it troublesome that a Catholic who has somewhat differing views of on various chuch issues is dismissed out of hand. I guess if you are not a "True Devout Catholic" and accepting blindly each and every tenet, then you really need to find a new religion. Is it impossible to question antiquated customs and tenets without being a heretic? Now, I am not talking about a central issue like abortion, of course. But, what about other tenets that one could argue are based on mores and circumstances that are centuries old and simply outdated? Forbidding women from being priests, for example.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 31, 2014 9:54:03 GMT -5
I find it troublesome that a Catholic who has somewhat differing views of on various chuch issues is dismissed out of hand. I guess if you are not a "True Devout Catholic" and accepting blindly each and every tenet, then you really need to find a new religion. Is it impossible to question antiquated customs and tenets without being a heretic? Now, I am not talking about a central issue like abortion, of course. But, what about other tenets that one could argue are based on mores and circumstances that are centuries old and simply outdated? Forbidding women from being priests, for example. There are basic answers to each of these which most people simply either ignore or are probably unaware of--Georgetown does a poor job of basic apologetics so most have no idea what the approach is. It's far too easy to declare something "old and outdated" when it doesn't serve their needs, without some logic or context attached to it. Distinct differences exist between dogma, doctrine, and practice in the Church and these are not interchangeable. The issue of women and Holy Orders falls under doctrine, i.e., the Church does not have the ecclesial authority to consecrate women. Married priests fall under an issue of practice and custom, and under a different standard than dogma (revealed by God) and doctrine (teachings based on Scripture).
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 31, 2014 10:06:28 GMT -5
Amazing that for the second time a thread about the Pope and a scarf gets turned into a thread about abortion and whether or not some people are Catholic enough.
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CWS
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Post by CWS on Mar 31, 2014 10:25:16 GMT -5
The Church has traditionally handled this under the idea of the "hierarchy of truths" (an idea that Pope Francis has affirmed): not all positions are equally required. Everything in the Creed: not up for grabs. After that, you'll get debate on what is essential and what isn't. But, the bottom line is that people have disagreed with the Church on some issues and still have been considered devout Catholics.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Mar 31, 2014 15:07:01 GMT -5
Re-read DFW's post. It says it all.
Christ did not select a single woman to be an Apostle. Why? Don't know, but it's a fact.
Many of the Apostles were married so there is no binding reason why requiring priests to be single should remain forever. It's subject to debate.
Christ said to judge no one lest you be judged yourself; but, at the same time, to love your enemies. That's hard but it's straight from his mouth.
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CWS
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Post by CWS on Apr 9, 2014 13:15:43 GMT -5
Georgetown is co-sponsoring with the Vatican and the Archdiocese of Washington the first "Courtyard of the Gentiles" conference in the US. Vatican Radio: Courtyard of the GentilesIt's an honor to be chosen as the first site for the US. Past cities include Berlin, Prague, Barcellona, Mexico City, Rome, Paris. More about this Vatican outreach can be found here: Courtyard of the GentilesA description of the conference at Georgetown can be found here (right now it is on Georgetown's front page): Faith, Culture, and the Common Good
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Apr 11, 2014 18:25:17 GMT -5
“It is therefore necessary to reiterate the strongest opposition to any direct attack on life, especially innocent and defenseless, and her unborn child in the womb is the innocent par excellence,” the pope told the gathering of politicians and pro-life activists at the Vatican today. “If you look at life as something that is consumed,” the pope said, “it will also be something that sooner or later you can throw away, with abortion to begin with.” Human life, however, is “a gift from God” and if it is accepted as such, “then you have before you a valuable and intangible asset, to be protected by all means and not to be discarded.” www.lifesitenews.com/pope-francis-calls-abortion-an-abominable-crime-in-strongest-remarks-to-dat2.html
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