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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 12, 2013 12:55:20 GMT -5
Question: Is there a single attack on Georgetown - perhaps in one of the petition's 1,200 "eyewitness accounts" - that is not rooted in sexual morality (abortion, homosexuality, contraceptives, premarital sex)? I'm not making a value judgment either way. I just want to be 100% clear on what violations Blatty is alleging.
Apologies if this has come up earlier in this thread or in a different thread altogether, but I have absolutely no desire to go back and check.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Sept 12, 2013 13:11:18 GMT -5
Blatty has more than just issues re: "sexual morality." He is petitioning over the general governance of Georgetown, for example, #1 in the Indictment:
1. Failure to Amend Governing Documents. Ex corde Ecclesiae requires that:
“A University established or approved by the Holy See, by an Episcopal Conference or another Assembly of Catholic Hierarchy, or by a diocesan Bishop is to incorporate [ECE’s] General Norms and their local and regional applications into its governing documents, and conform its existing Statutes both to the General Norms and to their applications, and submit them for approval to the competent ecclesiastical Authority. It is contemplated that other Catholic Universities, that is, those not established or approved in any of the above ways, with the agreement of the local ecclesiastical Authority, will make their own the General Norms and their local and regional applications, internalizing them into their governing documents, and, as far as possible, will conform their existing Statutes both to these General Norms and to their applications.” (Emphasis added.) Article 1, § 3.
Has GU complied?
We gave the University the chance to confirm their compliance. Their response confirmed that the answer is no. Of course, we knew the answer; we just wanted to be careful and fair. In 1998, The Georgetown Academy quoted then-University president Fr. Leo O’Donovan S.J. to say “Ex corde will not affect Georgetown, if Georgetown does not let it.” In 1999, TGA reported that at a university-wide special faculty meeting, Jesuit canon lawyer Fr. Ladislas Orsy, S.J told the assembled how “armed with a good lawyer who could interpret away the applicability of Ex corde to Georgetown” that Georgetown could avoid any alteration of its statutes and all other application of Ex corde.
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 12, 2013 15:33:55 GMT -5
Blatty has more than just issues re: "sexual morality." He is petitioning over the general governance of Georgetown, for example, #1 in the Indictment: 1. Failure to Amend Governing Documents. Ex corde Ecclesiae requires that: “A University established or approved by the Holy See, by an Episcopal Conference or another Assembly of Catholic Hierarchy, or by a diocesan Bishop is to incorporate [ECE’s] General Norms and their local and regional applications into its governing documents, and conform its existing Statutes both to the General Norms and to their applications, and submit them for approval to the competent ecclesiastical Authority. It is contemplated that other Catholic Universities, that is, those not established or approved in any of the above ways, with the agreement of the local ecclesiastical Authority, will make their own the General Norms and their local and regional applications, internalizing them into their governing documents, and, as far as possible, will conform their existing Statutes both to these General Norms and to their applications.” (Emphasis added.) Article 1, § 3. Has GU complied? We gave the University the chance to confirm their compliance. Their response confirmed that the answer is no. Of course, we knew the answer; we just wanted to be careful and fair. In 1998, The Georgetown Academy quoted then-University president Fr. Leo O’Donovan S.J. to say “Ex corde will not affect Georgetown, if Georgetown does not let it.” In 1999, TGA reported that at a university-wide special faculty meeting, Jesuit canon lawyer Fr. Ladislas Orsy, S.J told the assembled how “armed with a good lawyer who could interpret away the applicability of Ex corde to Georgetown” that Georgetown could avoid any alteration of its statutes and all other application of Ex corde. OK, but what's the underlying significance of failing to amend these documents? Is this a matter of paperwork and church bureaucracy, or is it something that would have a substantive effect on how the school is run? If it's the former, then why does it matter? And if it's the latter, what would the effect be?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Sept 12, 2013 17:01:21 GMT -5
Perhaps Blatty's point is that the failure of Georgetown to amend these documents is indicative of its rejection of Church authority, and the hot button "sexual morality" issues are the manifestation of Georgetown's failure to do so, i.e., the substantive effect.
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on Sept 13, 2013 9:35:02 GMT -5
"The Sea of Faith / Was once, too, at the full,” Matthew Arnold wrote in “Dover Beach“ (1867), “… But now I only hear / its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar / Retreating, to the breath / Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear / And naked shingles of the world.” And of Georgetown.
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 13, 2013 12:03:37 GMT -5
Perhaps Blatty's point is that the failure of Georgetown to amend these documents is indicative of its rejection of Church authority, and the hot button "sexual morality" issues are the manifestation of Georgetown's failure to do so, i.e., the substantive effect. Got it. Thanks.
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sead43
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Post by sead43 on Sept 13, 2013 12:35:37 GMT -5
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CWS
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Post by CWS on Sept 13, 2013 16:29:39 GMT -5
Bishop accuses a leader of a Catholic institution of not doing enough to fight abortion: Catholic Bishop: Not Enough Against AbortionThe bishop's statement has shocked people; it is against standard protocol to express a criticism like that in a diocesan paper. On the Ex Corde amendment concern: my understanding is that the language was purposely vague, to allow Catholic schools that are not in the first set of categories (i.e., those that established not by the Holy See, etc.) flexibility in how they adapt to the norms. So the language used for universities in the second category (i.e., "It is contemplated that other Catholic Universities...") intentionally falls short of the clear expectation/requirement delineated for universities that are in the first set of categories. I don't know that to be the case... so don't quote me on it... but it's what I heard. I believe Georgetown's response to Ex Corde is more or less the norm for most Catholic universities not in the first set of categories.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 13, 2013 18:22:23 GMT -5
Go Blatty.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Sept 14, 2013 11:38:43 GMT -5
Go, Blatty!
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 14, 2013 15:38:17 GMT -5
Go Blatty?
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 14, 2013 20:56:04 GMT -5
Go blah tee.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 16, 2013 15:29:25 GMT -5
Life goes on.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Sept 18, 2013 18:50:13 GMT -5
I have an honest question for the "Go Blatty" people here: what is the end goal of this litigation? What do you want to happen? If Georgetown is deemed not to be in compliance with Church law, then what? Rome declares that GU can no longer call itself Catholic unless it makes some changes? What would those changes entail? Expelling all of the students who had sex?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Sept 19, 2013 7:28:28 GMT -5
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 19, 2013 9:17:46 GMT -5
I have an honest question for the "Go Blatty" people here: what is the end goal of this litigation? What do you want to happen? NBC to bring back Matlock.
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 19, 2013 10:33:28 GMT -5
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Sept 19, 2013 10:42:03 GMT -5
Complete "KABOOM" moment for the so-called traditionalists. I guess it took a Jesuit to restore true leadership to the Vatican since John XXIII passed away....
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Sept 19, 2013 11:06:01 GMT -5
What a difference a pope makes!
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blueeagle
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Post by blueeagle on Sept 19, 2013 12:25:07 GMT -5
I love the tone and message of the current Pope. "The freshness and fragrance of the gospel." Amazing! Catholic as catholic should be.
Will the ultra-orthodox/traditionalist factions within the Church start a counter-counter-reformation? I already see the black helicopters on the horizon.
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