EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jun 1, 2013 8:52:50 GMT -5
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 1, 2013 9:14:11 GMT -5
Weekend reading at EasyEd's house?!
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jun 1, 2013 11:58:00 GMT -5
Weekend reading at EasyEd's house?! Light reading until the IRS communications are delivered (late). I repeat: Go Blatty.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 1, 2013 13:32:29 GMT -5
The problem with this issue is that's less and less about doctrine and more and more about politics. Ex Corde Ecclesiae is seen by the breitbart.coms of the world as a means to rid Catholic education of the likes of Georgetown, Notre Dame et al. (see the comments page of the article for the other universities sought for deletion) but Ex Corde really speaks to local ecclesial review over theology--not graduation speakers, not law school faculty, and not some of the other points which seem to aggravate Blatty. Then again, I'm sure there are stil people disgruntled over the Land O' Lakes accord, too. But that hasn't been overturned either.
Again, much of this is politics and not canon law.
I also question what the end game is in this. For Georgetown canonically not to be called "Catholic" doesn't turn back the clock--the Jesuits don't have the manpower to run the school as it did in the 1950's and 1960's. Blatty isn't going to see Georgetown become Steubenville on the Potomac by his actions. It doesn't change the ability of GU to issue degrees, to teach courses, or even to call itself Jesuit. And a Jesuit pope that knows as well as anyone in Rome that there are bigger issues on his plate than an angry petitioner in Malibu and the readership of Breitbart.com.
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Jun 1, 2013 16:59:04 GMT -5
The problem with this issue is that's less and less about doctrine and more and more about politics. Ex Corde Ecclesiae is seen by the breitbart.coms of the world as a means to rid Catholic education of the likes of Georgetown, Notre Dame et al. (see the comments page of the article for the other universities sought for deletion) but Ex Corde really speaks to local ecclesial review over theology--not graduation speakers, not law school faculty, and not some of the other points which seem to aggravate Blatty. Then again, I'm sure there are stil people disgruntled over the Land O' Lakes accord, too. But that hasn't been overturned either. Again, much of this is politics and not canon law. I also question what the end game is in this. For Georgetown canonically not to be called "Catholic" doesn't turn back the clock--the Jesuits don't have the manpower to run the school as it did in the 1950's and 1960's. Blatty isn't going to see Georgetown become Steubenville on the Potomac by his actions. It doesn't change the ability of GU to issue degrees, to teach courses, or even to call itself Jesuit. And a Jesuit pope that knows as well as anyone in Rome that there are bigger issues on his plate than an angry petitioner in Malibu and the readership of Breitbart.com. Slow. Clap. Well done, DFW. Very well done.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jun 1, 2013 19:11:48 GMT -5
I see absolutely nothing wrong with Georgetown having to make a choice: either be a Catholic university and stop opposing its teachings, or stop calling yourself a Catholic university. That's all Blatty is seeking.
BTW, I will not dare to speculate as to what the Pontiff in Rome considers his big issues.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 2, 2013 12:42:25 GMT -5
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jun 2, 2013 13:09:19 GMT -5
Guess "..he certainly seems to be on good terms with today's Georgetown" does not qualify as speaking for Pope Francis. I fully expected the good Pontiff to have punched them in the teeth.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 2, 2013 14:02:14 GMT -5
The Pontiff is a hockey fan? Who knew?
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CWS
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Post by CWS on Jun 2, 2013 14:08:06 GMT -5
DeGioia meets with Vatican officials yearly; it's great that he was able to have such a 'close encounter' with Pope Francis. Just some random points that I've heard at dinner or from students who've met with Blatty. 1) I do not know all of the canonical issues, but I've been told, repeatedly, that the lawsuit has no chance of going anywhere. Maybe something's changed, maybe I was told in error. 2) Blatty regularly accuses Georgetown of not being in compliance with Ex Corde's requirement of the mandatum, something that, by demand of the local ordinary, he can't know one way or another. The "mandatum" is the requirement that theologians apply for a mandate to teach from the local ordinary. Cardinal McCarrick met with the Theology Department at the time and told them that we were to keep our status private, between the ordinary and the theologian, and that if anyone asked, we were to say, "My ordinary asks that I not reveal that to anyone." Cardinal Wuerl has not overturned that policy. Also: Cardinal McCarrick interpreted Ex Corde so as to require only that when Catholic theologians say "X" is the Catholic Church's teaching, that "X" actually be what the Church teaches. So, a Catholic theologian in good standing could have students read an article on why artificial birth control should be allowed, but he or she cannot claim that such allowance is the official Church teaching (which I take as a matter of professional integrity; it's a no-brainer: you can't mislead students on what the official Church's position is, or that of any other religious institution). I asked McCarrick specifically this question: "So I can write an article against Humanae Vitae [which I have no plans on doing, by the way], and tell students why the encyclical was wrong, and I would still be in keeping with the mandatum?" His answer, "Yes. I wouldn't like it, but you wouldn't be violating the mandatum as long as you were also clear that your position was contrary to the Church's position." 3) 1,200 signatures was a disappointment for Blatty (there are 130,000 alumni, and this wasn't limited to alums). They've been collecting them for a year. Recall the Notre Dame petition against Obama's invitation to that school had 300,000 plus. 4) The university has worked hard to mend fences with the local ordinary after the Sibelius controversy, including creating, supporting, and giving a high profile to this event: Catholic Perspectives on Religious LibertyGeorgetown Symposium on Religious LibertyAnd, by the way, the speakers cover an ideological spectrum. 5) Blatty has argued that the invitation of Sibelius violates Church law (Fr. Schall and others have argued the same). The law in question is actually a 2004 policy set by the US bishops (and approved by Rome), which states that Catholic institutions should not "honor" Catholic politicians who "act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles." "They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions." While I don't think it was a good or appropriate invitation, I don't think it violated Church law. The key is whether the invitation to speak at the ceremony itself constituted an "honor," "award," or platform. She didn't speak out in favor of artificial birth control, so you can't argue that she was given a platform. In a way, ANY invitation to speak at an institution is an honor, but usually Church law is not interpreted so expansively (on the contrary: it's a fundamental principle of Canon Law that laws which impose a penalty or restrict a right are to be interpreted strictly, i.e., narrowly, see canon 18). When Cardinal Dolan invited President Obama to the Al Smith dinner, he used arguments similar to those used by DeGioia in defending the Sibelius invitation: Cardinal Dolan's Blog on Obama's Invitation
6) Here's the US Catholic bit (bite) on the lawsuit: US Catholic on Blatty Lawsuit
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Post by strummer8526 on Jun 3, 2013 8:33:42 GMT -5
I better avoid this thread in the future. If my eyes roll any further, they will fall out of my head.
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sead43
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Post by sead43 on Jun 11, 2013 13:06:44 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Go Blatty
Jun 12, 2013 8:48:30 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by DanMcQ on Jun 12, 2013 8:48:30 GMT -5
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 12, 2013 9:02:20 GMT -5
Good find Dan. A very well thought out and written essay on the essence of Georgetown, though probably not persuasive to those who think GU's top priority is to teach catechism to college students. The closing paragraph sums up Steidl points quite well: William Blatty’s petition does not recognize the value of diversity within the church. His understanding of Catholicism rejects its catholicity—that is, its universal nature—by rejecting engagement with the world and a plurality of spiritual charisms. His characterization of the faith as an internally-focused religious system does not reflect Christian commitments to diversity and the need for dialogue with others. The Catholic faith that I have come to know—a faith that Georgetown gave me—is far more broad, open-minded, and able to reach out the world in service. It is this Catholicism, beautiful and charismatic in its diversity, that fulfills Christ’s call to change the world with the love of God.Actually, the find was by sead43. Credit where it's due and all.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 12, 2013 9:07:25 GMT -5
I agree with WBH that DFW did an excellent job, but it could have been even more accurate and persuasive without the bias displayed below (Edits are employed to clarify my comment) The logical fallacy of Mr. Blatty's premise is "affirming the consequent", to make the leap that since [some] liberals [sometimes] practice [ways that some might perceive as non-catholic] anti-Catholic ways [as do a great many conservatives] and Georgetown sometimes associates with liberals; therefore, Georgetown is not Catholic.
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on Jun 13, 2013 11:27:22 GMT -5
I see absolutely nothing wrong with Georgetown having to make a choice: either be a Catholic university and stop opposing its teachings, or stop calling yourself a Catholic university. That's all Blatty is seeking. BTW, I will not dare to speculate as to what the Pontiff in Rome considers his big issues.
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on Jun 13, 2013 11:29:52 GMT -5
(1) Mr. Blatty has been living in Maryland, not Malibu, for well over a decade, and (2) while still Cardinal, Pope Francis strongly pushed for The Pontifical University of Peru to be stripped of its Catholic identity, thus the sound of whistling in the dark is hollow.
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on Jun 14, 2013 16:25:11 GMT -5
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on Jun 15, 2013 15:02:51 GMT -5
I agree with WBH that DFW did an excellent job, but it could have been even more accurate and persuasive without the bias displayed below (Edits are employed to clarify my comment) The logical fallacy of Mr. Blatty's premise is "affirming the consequent", to make the leap that since [some] liberals [sometimes] practice [ways that some might perceive as non-catholic] anti-Catholic ways [as do a great many conservatives] and Georgetown sometimes associates with liberals; therefore, Georgetown is not Catholic. On its own, the statement is balderdash, but as it speaks of "logical fallacy" when it obviously wouldn't know a logical premise from a pepperoni pizza, it is to smile at. Logic was once a most demanding full-year course at Georgetown. But no more.
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on Jun 16, 2013 21:31:24 GMT -5
Guess "..he certainly seems to be on good terms with today's Georgetown" does not qualify as speaking for Pope Francis. I fully expected the good Pontiff to have punched them in the teeth. You've got that right, Easy Ed. While he was still Cardinal, it was Pope Francis who pushed hardest -- and successfully -- to strip The Pontifical University of Peru of its Catholic title. The days of gnashing of secular teeth on campus is coming as surely as the night must fall.
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