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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 16, 2013 12:20:07 GMT -5
Pretty small sample size. We were also 15 and 1 in bet as a one seed. Those stats are for sportscasters
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Mar 16, 2013 12:25:46 GMT -5
A top 10 team should at least perform well in either their conference tourney or the NCAA tourney. We beat a pretty bad Cincy team who in any decent year would not be going to the NCAAs, and we lost playing poorly to a very average Syracuse team. That was not a good performance for the #1 seed in the BET.
We have the chance to make up for it in the NCAA by appearing in the Sweet 16 or better. If we don't, it will be another disappointing and inexplicable postseason, period. Doesn't take away from the great regular season we had, but as JTIII always says, there are three seasons to each year (pre-BE, BE regular, and postseason tourneys) and he wants to perform well in all of them. And by the way, you can say the same for Otto Porter - he made some bad decisions against NC State last year and ylast night was not good for him.
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Post by detmut on Mar 16, 2013 12:34:49 GMT -5
Pretty small sample size. We were also 15 and 1 in bet as a one seed. Those stats are for sportscasters but it is a good indication of how well we are playing at an important time. we have won 7 big east tournaments and have gone to 4 final fours in those years
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 16, 2013 13:13:24 GMT -5
In years past I'd have to say we lived and died by the 3. This year we still are a form of that makeup but we have many shooters now. If 1 is cold we have 2 or 3 others that can step up. We'll need Hop/Moses/Lubick to bang the boards and anything from them on the offensive end will be a bonus. I have more confidence this year than years past due to our D. If our O is suffering for stretches our D won't let it get out of hand. We're going to the Sweet 16 at a minimum, book it! 3 pointers make up 27.3% of our points on the yr, which places us at #187 in the nation. Furthermore, 32.6% of our FG attempts are threes, good for #184. Not exactly living and dying by the three. It's always better when we make 'em, though!
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 16, 2013 13:40:46 GMT -5
I can't believe the entire tournament is going to feature Doug Gottleib in the studio. Just painful.
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Post by jamaicahoya on Mar 16, 2013 13:42:14 GMT -5
However we do in the tourney, this is where I am today.
I worked late last night and wasn’t able to watch the game live, but watching the streaming scores on the CBS Sports online page didn’t allay my anxiety or my expletive-laden exasperation every time the score shifted in the Cuse’s favor. And although I had the game taped, knowing how it had ended with a loss in overtime, I couldn’t watch it when I finally got home.
The wife and teenage daughter had retired to bed early, guided perhaps by the empirical understanding gained from living with a Hoya fanatic—that their otherwise affectionate and understanding dad and husband is seldom good company on the day of a Hoya loss.
So with a six-pack to help calm my indignant spirit, I slipped in one of my all-time favorite movie, Papillon, in the VCR, to let vega remind me of the ability of the human spirit, under the most crushing and overwhelming forces, to remain unbend and defiant.
And I awoke this morning and watched the taped battle the boy’s waged against their mortal enemy in the Garden. And while we came up short, to the Cuse’s consternation, we were right there to the very end, right there despite them doing a good job in neutralizing our player of the year, right there despite our budding freshman sniper, DRS, having an off night, right there despite the heart of this team, Starks, getting bushwhacked by fouls, right there despite Hops’ continued inattentiveness to blocking out and finishing bunnies preventing his great game preservation effort from becoming a monstrous game saving statement,
I sipped my coffee as I watched it all this morning and was surprisingly contented. And as I watched part of the Cuse’s post-game celebration, and knowing they were running off to the ACC for all the wrong reasons, I silently paraphrased Papillon’s(Steve McQueen)words of defiance at the end of the movie—“Hey, you bastards, we are still here.”
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 16, 2013 13:47:52 GMT -5
But this appears to be the real JTIII and I for one couldn't be happier or more optimistic. Last year we lost a close game to major conference team, but we dominated Belmont the way we should. Despite their kenpomtastic offense, the Hoyas made them chronically uncomfortable all game. Last season's team had three upperclassmen who averaged double figures in scoring, a frosh in Otto who came close to averaging double digits and three players in Greg, Markel and Nate who were capable of scoring ten or more points in any given game (based on the very fact that they indeed scored ten points plus in games often enough throughout the season). Why am I bringing up scoring? Because the main weakness of this team remains scoring droughts. And now the availability of scorers, needed scorers for the rough patches during games, are not as numerous. This season we are down to two guys who are averaging double digits in points with a third honorable mention (and a freshmen to boot) coming very close. After that ....we are left with three remaining dudes who are "capable" of scoring ten or more. One of them Nate, seems to do so on average about once in every five games these days and frankly has been scoring less down the stretch. Another (Hop) seems to do once in every eight games and to be honest you don't even know if he'll play fifteen minutes in any give contest. And the last one (Jabril) scores in double digits something like once every ten games and is earning his starting position through defense and assistance with ball handling. Basically when the Hoyas put their starters on the floor only two of the five are reliable scorers and the team needs a frosh to come off the bench to be the third option. Yeah, looking it at it from that perspective it is a minor miracle the Hoyas tied for first in the Big East. But when the Hoyas were winning all of those games in a role fans on this board were arguing that they were the best team in the Big East and felt slighted by the media for thinking more highly of Louisville and not seeing Gtown as a contender for the BE crown and for a long post season run. Why does the mindset change amongst many HT members as soon as Big East play ends? Why do expectations dim as soon as Gtown exits from MSG during the BET? Obviously this team has little room for error not to mention little room for foul trouble and off-night shooting). The Hoyas are going to have to continue to play top notch defense the rest of the way. And Greg will have to be assertive on offense and not wait for the game to come to him. It would help a lot if Nate and Mikael felt it was time to help out with the scoring load. It would help even more if Greg was playing but that's simply a dream.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 16, 2013 14:04:29 GMT -5
Keep in mind that good luck is part of the equation. The by game was close in that run, the vandy game came down to one shot, and the unc game had a huge comeback. Conversely against the Florida team the prior year we were right in it and we had Davidson all but beat. Ohio was the only time we took a dump in the tourney. Jtiii is great VCU wasn't a dump when that play-in team had already played cross country two days earlier and still looked more fresh and more hungry than a senior-led Gtown squad? Davidson wasn't a dump even though the Hoyas were more talented, more deep, more athletic and had a dying Davidson on the ground but then took its foot off of Davidson's throat? Granted NC State wasn't a dump type of loss but in typical fashion the Hoyas build a lead and can't hold it because there is no consistency in scoring; scoring droughts overtake the team. Pretty easy for that to happen when you are not getting any scoring off of free throws or fastbreak points and relying too heavily on three-points shots all the while turning the ball over way too much against teams who aren't...even...pressing. Someone above wrote that you can't judge III and other college basketball coaches like other coaches of other sports because of the one-and-done nature of the post season. I would counter that NFL coaches are judged more harshly than anyone and they too deal with that one-and-done nature of post season play. Nonetheless if I accept that argument and give college hoops coaches a pass for not being able to live up to their seeding in the tournament, will others agree that in that same tournament it is uncommon for low scoring teams to advance? It catches up with teams if they have difficulty scoring. The Hoyas' defense is unlikely to be an issue. But when you can't score enough points you can't pull away from inferior opposing teams which puts you in position to get knocked off.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 16, 2013 14:08:49 GMT -5
In years past I'd have to say we lived and died by the 3. This year we still are a form of that makeup but we have many shooters now. If 1 is cold we have 2 or 3 others that can step up. My man, who are the "2 or 3 others" you are referring to? Because that would suggest we have FOUR shooters on this team in the first place. By my count we have three and three only. By the way I expect this team to make it to the Sweet Sixteen too. After that...it is a tossup. Which is fine with me because that is how it is for most #2 to #4 seeds (I think GTown will get a #2).
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 16, 2013 14:12:22 GMT -5
In years past I'd have to say we lived and died by the 3. This year we still are a form of that makeup but we have many shooters now. If 1 is cold we have 2 or 3 others that can step up. We'll need Hop/Moses/Lubick to bang the boards and anything from them on the offensive end will be a bonus. I have more confidence this year than years past due to our D. If our O is suffering for stretches our D won't let it get out of hand. We're going to the Sweet 16 at a minimum, book it! 3 pointers make up 27.3% of our points on the yr, which places us at #187 in the nation. Furthermore, 32.6% of our FG attempts are threes, good for #184. Not exactly living and dying by the three. It's always better when we make 'em, though! Did not know that. Very interesting stats. I thought the team was living more off the three than that. Maybe I should amend my point to state we are living off the jumpshot instead. ;D
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 16, 2013 14:14:28 GMT -5
However we do in the tourney, this is where I am today. I worked late last night and wasn’t able to watch the game live, but watching the streaming scores on the CBS Sports online page didn’t allay my anxiety or my expletive-laden exasperation every time the score shifted in the Cuse’s favor. And although I had the game taped, knowing how it had ended with a loss in overtime, I couldn’t watch it when I finally got home. The wife and teenage daughter had retired to bed early, guided perhaps by the empirical understanding gained from living with a Hoya fanatic—that their otherwise affectionate and understanding dad and husband is seldom good company on the day of a Hoya loss. So with a six-pack to help calm my indignant spirit, I slipped in one of my all-time favorite movie, Papillon, in the VCR, to let vega remind me of the ability of the human spirit, under the most crushing and overwhelming forces, to remain unbend and defiant. And I awoke this morning and watched the taped battle the boy’s waged against their mortal enemy in the Garden. And while we came up short, to the Cuse’s consternation, we were right there to the very end, right there despite them doing a good job in neutralizing our player of the year, right there despite our budding freshman sniper, DRS, having an off night, right there despite the heart of this team, Starks, getting bushwhacked by fouls, right there despite Hops’ continued inattentiveness to blocking out and finishing bunnies preventing his great game preservation effort from becoming a monstrous game saving statement, I sipped my coffee as I watched it all this morning and was surprisingly contented. And as I watched part of the Cuse’s post-game celebration, and knowing they were running off to the ACC for all the wrong reasons, I silently paraphrased Papillon’s(Steve McQueen)words of defiance at the end of the movie—“Hey, you bastards, we are still here.” Classic. But I have to ask.....a VCR? Serious?
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 16, 2013 14:20:31 GMT -5
VCU or any tournament team we had no chance against with a one handed Chris Wright. He was far too important to that team. Davidson they don't get a pass for BUT they were certainly underseeded, had the best or second best player on the floor, and were essentially playing a home game. And there was also some horrible officiating that game. That was a game where luck, seeding, and match-ups really play a factor and none of it was in our favor. NC State was just better than us last year. Our tournament woes have been a combination of luck, underachieving and poor defense. It's not that complicated. One has already been fixed, one we can't control and the other needs to be improved upon. I really don't think it's that complicated. His first two years in the tournament III over-achieved. His three years after he underachieved. Last year we had a pretty average tournament experience. We will see what happens this year. You are a good in the tournament until you're not and you're bad in the tournament until you are.
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Post by jamaicahoya on Mar 16, 2013 14:30:41 GMT -5
MCI, I am just showing my age. I have a DVD player. My tech vernacular is just not keeping pace.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 16, 2013 14:43:51 GMT -5
VCU or any tournament team we had no chance against with a one handed Chris Wright. He was far too important to that team. Davidson they don't get a pass for BUT they were certainly underseeded, had the best or second best player on the floor, and were essentially playing a home game. And there was also some horrible officiating that game. That was a game where luck, seeding, and match-ups really play a factor and none of it was in our favor. NC State was just better than us last year. Our tournament woes have been a combination of luck, underachieving and poor defense. It's not that complicated. One has already been fixed, one we can't control and the other needs to be improved upon. I really don't think it's that complicated. His first two years in the tournament III over-achieved. His three years after he underachieved. Last year we had a pretty average tournament experience. We will see what happens this year. You are a good in the tournament until you're not and you're bad in the tournament until you are. Lots of different factors have come in to play in our losses but the bottom line is if any of those Hoya teams had been playing their best they would have advanced. So it's fair to put that on JT3 (whom I think is an overall fantastic coach btw). He hasnt had a team playing its best late in the season since the 06 and 07 squads. Hopefully that changes next week!
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 16, 2013 14:56:57 GMT -5
VCU or any tournament team we had no chance against with a one handed Chris Wright. He was far too important to that team. Davidson they don't get a pass for BUT they were certainly underseeded, had the best or second best player on the floor, and were essentially playing a home game. And there was also some horrible officiating that game. That was a game where luck, seeding, and match-ups really play a factor and none of it was in our favor. NC State was just better than us last year. Our tournament woes have been a combination of luck, underachieving and poor defense. It's not that complicated. One has already been fixed, one we can't control and the other needs to be improved upon. I really don't think it's that complicated. His first two years in the tournament III over-achieved. His three years after he underachieved. Last year we had a pretty average tournament experience. We will see what happens this year. You are a good in the tournament until you're not and you're bad in the tournament until you are. Lots of different factors have come in to play in our losses but the bottom line is if any of those Hoya teams had been playing their best they would have advanced. So it's fair to put that on JT3 (whom I think is an overall fantastic coach btw). He hasnt had a team playing its best late in the season since the 06 and 07 squads. Hopefully that changes next week! I disagree. If we play our best last year and NC state plays their best, we still lose. 2011 with Chris WITH two healthy hands I agree. However our team sans Chris Wright's right hand our team isn't beating that final four VCU team playing at their best. I also don't think we were playing our absolute best in 2007 during the tournament. We were down by double digits in 3 of our 4 wins that tournament and were really quite fortunate to get win out last two. I think we had been playing better a few weeks before, though we were still a very good team during the tournament obviously. Things just broke right for us that year.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 16, 2013 14:59:29 GMT -5
VCU or any tournament team we had no chance against with a one handed Chris Wright. He was far too important to that team. Davidson they don't get a pass for BUT they were certainly underseeded, had the best or second best player on the floor, and were essentially playing a home game. And there was also some horrible officiating that game. That was a game where luck, seeding, and match-ups really play a factor and none of it was in our favor. NC State was just better than us last year. Our tournament woes have been a combination of luck, underachieving and poor defense. It's not that complicated. One has already been fixed, one we can't control and the other needs to be improved upon. I really don't think it's that complicated. His first two years in the tournament III over-achieved. His three years after he underachieved. Last year we had a pretty average tournament experience. We will see what happens this year. You are a good in the tournament until you're not and you're bad in the tournament until you are. That's fair. Good post. I will only quibble with the overachieving argument for III's first two years in the tourney. Year #1 he had two first round NBA draft picks in his starting lineup. Year #2 he returned both of those guys and added three second round dfrat picks (Summers, Ewing Jr., Macklin). Not to forget he had arguably the program's best three-point shooter for both of those years too. MCI, I am just showing my age. I have a DVD player. My tech vernacular is just not keeping pace. Ahhh. I see.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 16, 2013 15:04:56 GMT -5
I disagree. If we play our best last year and NC state plays their best, we still lose. Gotta disagree there. That NC State team wasn't all that which is why they were a #11 seed coming out of the overhyped ACC. Whe ou wrote n your previous post that NC State was just better than Gtown last year I thought you were only arguing that the Pack was better for that one game. I didn't realize you felt NC State was a superior team overall. Years from now I'm pretty confident the player who will be viewed as the best talent from that game will either be Otto Porter or Greg Whittington. Not any of the guys from NC State. When you add in Henry Sims, Hollis Thompson, Jason Clark, Markel Starks, etc., I have no doubt that if the Hoyas played their best they win against the Wolfpack playing at their best.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 16, 2013 15:10:05 GMT -5
Lots of different factors have come in to play in our losses but the bottom line is if any of those Hoya teams had been playing their best they would have advanced. So it's fair to put that on JT3 (whom I think is an overall fantastic coach btw). He hasnt had a team playing its best late in the season since the 06 and 07 squads. Hopefully that changes next week! I disagree. If we play our best last year and NC state plays their best, we still lose. 2011 with Chris WITH two healthy hands I agree. However our team sans Chris Wright's right hand our team isn't beating that final four VCU team playing at their best. I also don't think we were playing our absolute best in 2007 during the tournament. We were down by double digits in 3 of our 4 wins that tournament and were really quite fortunate to get win out last two. I think we had been playing better a few weeks before, though we were still a very good team during the tournament obviously. Things just broke right for us that year. You think our best doesn't beat NC State last season? We didn't play very well and still only lost by 3 and it came down to our last possession.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 16, 2013 15:10:46 GMT -5
VCU or any tournament team we had no chance against with a one handed Chris Wright. He was far too important to that team. Davidson they don't get a pass for BUT they were certainly underseeded, had the best or second best player on the floor, and were essentially playing a home game. And there was also some horrible officiating that game. That was a game where luck, seeding, and match-ups really play a factor and none of it was in our favor. NC State was just better than us last year. Our tournament woes have been a combination of luck, underachieving and poor defense. It's not that complicated. One has already been fixed, one we can't control and the other needs to be improved upon. I really don't think it's that complicated. His first two years in the tournament III over-achieved. His three years after he underachieved. Last year we had a pretty average tournament experience. We will see what happens this year. You are a good in the tournament until you're not and you're bad in the tournament until you are. That's fair. Good post. I will only quibble with the overachieving argument for III's first two years in the tourney. Year #1 he had two first round NBA draft picks in his starting lineup. Year #2 he returned both of those guys and added three second round dfrat picks (Summers, Ewing Jr., Macklin). Not to forget he had arguably the program's best three-point shooter for both of those years too. I was really just talking about seeding but I don't really agree that we didn't overachieve in 2006 and 2007. The problem with that is neither Jeff nor Roy were playing at first round draft pick level in 2006. They obviously had the potential but I don't think it's fair to use their future sucess to judge their production at that time against them. We were a 7 seed that year that beat the 2 seed by twenty and lost in the sweet sixteen to a team with 4? draft picks. We definitely overachieved our seed, expectations, and our regular season play in the tournament that year. 2007 we beat a UNC team that was at least as talented and out played our seed. I mean if Hayes or Bolden turn out to be NBA all-star centers would it really be fair to say we had an NBA caliber center this year? Imo, no.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 16, 2013 15:11:02 GMT -5
I disagree. If we play our best last year and NC state plays their best, we still lose. Gotta disagree there. That NC State team wasn't all that which is why they were a #11 seed coming out of the overhyped ACC. Whe ou wrote n your previous post that NC State was just better than Gtown last year I thought you were only arguing that the Pack was better for that one game. I didn't realize you felt NC State was a superior team overall. Years from now I'm pretty confident the player who will be viewed as the best talent from that game will either be Otto Porter or Greg Whittington. Not any of the guys from NC State. When you add in Henry Sims, Hollis Thompson, Jason Clark, Markel Starks, etc., I have no doubt that if the Hoyas played their best they win against the Wolfpack playing at their best. Whittington, huh? Man I hope you're right about that.
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