CaliHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,188
|
Post by CaliHoya on Sept 24, 2013 11:45:38 GMT -5
Any word on if we actually even did an in-home visit with Elbert this month? Seems like JT3 was making rounds in Minny, but if he didn't visit Elbert, that pretty much shows we aren't prioritizing him as much.
|
|
757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,001
|
Post by 757hoyafan on Sept 24, 2013 11:58:01 GMT -5
Looks like we might not get a list today. Posted 5 min ago. ✨ER_3-SlowMo!!!✨ @elbertrobinson8 5m Pops told me to push my date back Which Pops?? His or ours? His.....
|
|
|
Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Sept 24, 2013 16:40:44 GMT -5
There's nothing more ridiculous than a group of fans wanting the staff to quit on a player simply because there's a bit of uncertainty in where they are going. It's incredibly odd to me that people get so frustrated with having to deal with updates once in a while and delay that they'd quit on a great option. Luckily, our staff is mature and doesn't make weird, emotional decisions like that. A truly good big is what will set this class apart. Bigs make a huge difference in college basketball, and we haven't been a complete team for years. insider.espn.go.com/blog/ncbrecruiting/on-the-trail/index/_/count/16The art of cutting bait One of the underrated aspects of recruiting is the evaluation of the situation. An astute college coach sees beyond what's right in front of him. We're at a spot in the calendar where time and resources are precious. A program starts hearing whispers about where a prospect is leaning or when he's going to decide, and decisions have to be made. Finishing second stinks, but finishing second while pandering to a kid you have zero chance to get while letting a secondary target go elsewhere is a sin assistants often make.
"One thing I know is when to get out," a prominent head coach said. "We can't waste time."
Cutting bait is a blow to a man's ego; an admission that what might have been years of work on a player didn't work at all. However, often it's what must be done. Too often green assistants will hang in there to the bitter end, sometimes on a mission to make an impression with their head coach or often because they haven't read the situation.
In this business, word on the street often times is the word out of the player's mouth. Reading situations is vital. It's mid-September, visits are under way and coaches are traversing the country reaching out to targets. The last thing a head coach wants to do is a home visit with a player he knows he's not getting. Time is too precious; there are other recruits. Once November comes around, you don't want to be the guy who wished he'd moved on. It can be debated whether or not this applies to Elbert but if you go back and read thru this thread the "tea leaves" do not appear to be pointing G'town's way lately.. NycHoya3 says "recruit other kids but keep working Elbert" My question is how do you do that when you have limited scholarships left? I realize there may be 2 spots left but is the staff willing to take 2 centers in this class? With the class G'town has put together it may be worth the gamble to wait on Elbert, I have to admit though I'd start looking at other options myself. There isn't anyone left who'll be as imposing as Elbert seems to be but there are kids left who fit JT3's system in many ways.. +1 the staffs have limited time / energy / expenses and we also have limited scholarships. when I said we should move on, i never meant to "whine" or "be absurd" by moving on a target that we have a lead on from what it seems like, he is being influenced too much by his advisors and these advisors have no interest in sending ER to Georgetown. And not to knock on ER because a lot of 17 year old basketball stars are deeply influenced by these advisors (also shown in the Koelen Young article someone posted on the forum). And ER himself, just like a lot of 17 year old basketball stars in the AAU circuit, actually enjoys the highlights and attention (unlike our recent hero Otto). With these being the cases, I don't see him coming to us, nor do I see him being a good fit here. also some of you guys seem to believe that he is the only other option for big men - that might be the case of class of 2014, but class 2015 has better big men imo. if we get someone like diamond from that class, we can forget about ER. Whether we have josh or not for the 2014-2015 year, we will still have senior hopkins, 5th year moses, and somewhat developed hayes, which should be good for a year before we can land a top notched big man.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Sept 24, 2013 17:03:04 GMT -5
insider.espn.go.com/blog/ncbrecruiting/on-the-trail/index/_/count/16The art of cutting bait One of the underrated aspects of recruiting is the evaluation of the situation. An astute college coach sees beyond what's right in front of him. We're at a spot in the calendar where time and resources are precious. A program starts hearing whispers about where a prospect is leaning or when he's going to decide, and decisions have to be made. Finishing second stinks, but finishing second while pandering to a kid you have zero chance to get while letting a secondary target go elsewhere is a sin assistants often make.
"One thing I know is when to get out," a prominent head coach said. "We can't waste time."
Cutting bait is a blow to a man's ego; an admission that what might have been years of work on a player didn't work at all. However, often it's what must be done. Too often green assistants will hang in there to the bitter end, sometimes on a mission to make an impression with their head coach or often because they haven't read the situation.
In this business, word on the street often times is the word out of the player's mouth. Reading situations is vital. It's mid-September, visits are under way and coaches are traversing the country reaching out to targets. The last thing a head coach wants to do is a home visit with a player he knows he's not getting. Time is too precious; there are other recruits. Once November comes around, you don't want to be the guy who wished he'd moved on. It can be debated whether or not this applies to Elbert but if you go back and read thru this thread the "tea leaves" do not appear to be pointing G'town's way lately.. NycHoya3 says "recruit other kids but keep working Elbert" My question is how do you do that when you have limited scholarships left? I realize there may be 2 spots left but is the staff willing to take 2 centers in this class? With the class G'town has put together it may be worth the gamble to wait on Elbert, I have to admit though I'd start looking at other options myself. There isn't anyone left who'll be as imposing as Elbert seems to be but there are kids left who fit JT3's system in many ways.. +1 the staffs have limited time / energy / expenses and we also have limited scholarships. when I said we should move on, i never meant to "whine" or "be absurd" by moving on a target that we have a lead on from what it seems like, he is being influenced too much by his advisors and these advisors have no interest in sending ER to Georgetown. And not to knock on ER because a lot of 17 year old basketball stars are deeply influenced by these advisors (also shown in the Koelen Young article someone posted on the forum). And ER himself, just like a lot of 17 year old basketball stars in the AAU circuit, actually enjoys the highlights and attention (unlike our recent hero Otto). With these being the cases, I don't see him coming to us, nor do I see him being a good fit here. also some of you guys seem to believe that he is the only other option for big men - that might be the case of class of 2014, but class 2015 has better big men imo. if we get someone like diamond from that class, we can forget about ER. Whether we have josh or not for the 2014-2015 year, we will still have senior hopkins, 5th year moses, and somewhat developed hayes, which should be good for a year before we can land a top notched big man. Is it just me, or do we take the "we'll get the elite big man in the next class" option way too often? When was the last time we got the top notch big man from the next recruiting class (or really any top notch big man recruit)?
|
|
royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,296
|
Post by royski on Sept 24, 2013 17:30:42 GMT -5
Monroe was the last top notch big man we successfully recruited.
|
|
CaliHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,188
|
Post by CaliHoya on Sept 24, 2013 17:34:14 GMT -5
I guess it's true that worst case, we can always take a 5th year from Moses, if he's game (while really going after the best centers in the 2015 class). He'd probably be more productive for 2014-2015 than any lower-tier recruit.
|
|
|
Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Sept 24, 2013 17:38:47 GMT -5
Lighten up, Hoyainspirit. When I used the words "hope he has the sense" that was not a harsh use of the word. I was simply saying let's hope he realizes that we are the best program for him. That's all. He and his family do have the final say. And I was certainly not saying that it is unfortunate that his family has the last say. I meant simply that it might be unfortunate for us that they do. I stand by that statement.
|
|
|
Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Sept 25, 2013 7:15:38 GMT -5
Is it just me, or do we take the "we'll get the elite big man in the next class" option way too often? When was the last time we got the top notch big man from the next recruiting class (or really any top notch big man recruit)? [/quote] This.
|
|
|
Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Sept 25, 2013 16:32:44 GMT -5
Is it just me, or do we take the "we'll get the elite big man in the next class" option way too often? When was the last time we got the top notch big man from the next recruiting class (or really any top notch big man recruit)? This.[/quote] nah, i think there are more pessimists than optimists on this board. people need to look forward, rather than trying to put all eggs in one basket and then cry with vengeance when players like Nerlen Noels, Ochefu, and Rakim Christmas go somewhere else. in retrospect, we haven't really missed out much from those big men who have decided to go somewhere else. Noels was the most talented, but he only played a half a season of college ball - i would rather have hopkins for 4 years than a talented drama queen for half a season. look, my point is that we will be fine regardless of landing ER or not. if ER does decide to go somewhere else because of the influences from his advisors or other interests not related to bball, he was never meant to be here and would never been a good fit here. it's about the time that we land another top notched big man since greg monroe. think we will get someone with the improved staff maybe in class of 2015 class or 16.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Sept 25, 2013 16:47:04 GMT -5
Is it just me, or do we take the "we'll get the elite big man in the next class" option way too often? When was the last time we got the top notch big man from the next recruiting class (or really any top notch big man recruit)? This. nah, i think there are more pessimists than optimists on this board. people need to look forward, rather than trying to put all eggs in one basket and then cry with vengeance when players like Nerlen Noels, Ochefu, and Rakim Christmas go somewhere else. in retrospect, we haven't really missed out much from those big men who have decided to go somewhere else. Noels was the most talented, but he only played a half a season of college ball - i would rather have hopkins for 4 years than a talented drama queen for half a season. look, my point is that we will be fine regardless of landing ER or not. if ER does decide to go somewhere else because of the influences from his advisors or other interests not related to bball, he was never meant to be here and would never been a good fit here. it's about the time that we land another top notched big man since greg monroe. think we will get someone with the improved staff maybe in class of 2015 class or 16. [/quote] Kind of a fallacy to assume that Noel gets hurt if he's at Georgetown. And I think he might have been helpful protecting the rim against certain schools that dunked all over us. And no one is saying we won't be "fine" if we don't get Elbert, just that for Big Man U, we seem to spend every year looking forward to the next year's crop of big men. Hopefully the new staff changes that, since "we'll get an elite big in 2015" isn't a whole lot different than what we said last year and the year before last.
|
|
|
Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Sept 25, 2013 18:05:56 GMT -5
nah, i think there are more pessimists than optimists on this board. people need to look forward, rather than trying to put all eggs in one basket and then cry with vengeance when players like Nerlen Noels, Ochefu, and Rakim Christmas go somewhere else. in retrospect, we haven't really missed out much from those big men who have decided to go somewhere else. Noels was the most talented, but he only played a half a season of college ball - i would rather have hopkins for 4 years than a talented drama queen for half a season. look, my point is that we will be fine regardless of landing ER or not. if ER does decide to go somewhere else because of the influences from his advisors or other interests not related to bball, he was never meant to be here and would never been a good fit here. it's about the time that we land another top notched big man since greg monroe. think we will get someone with the improved staff maybe in class of 2015 class or 16. Kind of a fallacy to assume that Noel gets hurt if he's at Georgetown. And I think he might have been helpful protecting the rim against certain schools that dunked all over us. And no one is saying we won't be "fine" if we don't get Elbert, just that for Big Man U, we seem to spend every year looking forward to the next year's crop of big men. Hopefully the new staff changes that, since "we'll get an elite big in 2015" isn't a whole lot different than what we said last year and the year before last.[/quote] well if we play the what-if game, i can also say that had noels came here, he would have torn his ACL in a pick-up game before the season started, and then went straight to the NBA without playing a single game for us. maybe he does not get injured here, but brings bad chemistry and gets in a fight in a locker room during a half time with inept senior captain and we do not even make NCAA tournament. but that's not my point. from what you are saying, i am glad you also agree that we will still be fine regardless of having ER or not. with your comment regarding the big man univ is kinda.... meh. first of all, the talent level of big men has drastically decreased over the last decade - also seen in the NBA as a guy with no post-up move is crowned as the best big man in the league (that would be dwight howard). the recruiting has also changed a lot - the best of best players want to be crowned with spotlight at schools like kentucky where jay-z and drake come for visit, and the baits from so-called the handlers have become more lucrative and irresistible to many 17-18 year old boys. but we dont play that kinda game. everyone knows that our facilities are not on par with those big schools. nor does DC offer great weather like UCLA, or great food either (i personally hated leo's so...) we offer the tradition of hall of fame players who come back here and then to work with our players and strong education, but it's harder these days to entice the top level recruits with just that, when the recruiting game got tad dirtier as time went by. we may get players like otto time to time, but everyone knows that was indeed a rare case. my point is players who are meant to be here with the right atttitude and mindset will come here. those players who have the right head on shoulder that value education and tradition over the limelight of good weather, publicity, and the interests of their AAU/high school coaches are only going to be a good fit here. lastly, i would like to remind the case of devonta pollard - no he is not a big man, but as a recent case i remember everyone on board was wanting him so bad just b/c he was a 5 star mcdonald all-american player + high ceiling. for saying that he would not have been a good fit here, everyone was saying i was crazy and just blasted on me (feel free to look back on the thread). so did we miss out a lot on someone who averaged less than 2 points per a game in most likely his lone season in college bball and now got kicked out of school and is jeopoardized of losing everything b/c of his handler a.k.a his mom? if ER has the right head on the shoulder and cuts his ties with the interests of his handlers, he will make the right choice and be developed here. if he does not come, well don't think we will miss out so much.
|
|
chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
|
Post by chep3 on Sept 25, 2013 21:08:05 GMT -5
Well cosmo, except that you're saying that if he comes here, he'll get developed, and by necessity, that developed player is the one we'd be missing out on if he goes elsewhere. When we don't get a high ranked big man to commit, we miss out on that chance to develop them. I'd guess that we'd have done more for Dash Riley, Rakeem Christmas (so far), and Robert Upshaw (so far) than their ultimate choices have (and the same probably is true for Daniel Ochefu or Mouph Yarou, though I don't remember how close we were to getting him). I do feel like it's always next year when it comes to big men, in a way that doesn't ring true for other positions and that doesn't make sense given our track record with Roy and Greg (leaving aside the whole pre-III era since that's not really that relevant). We've had 1 year with an above average 5 since Greg left, and that's got to change. I'm not sure it's fair to us or Mikael to have him spend the next two years playing the bulk of his minutes at the 5, and I'm sure not comfortable at this point with Hayes being the primary starter his last two years. ER would be a great get. If he doesn't come, he doesn't come, that's recruiting. But I think it's silly to just say, oh we'll get someone better in '15, when, the way things have been going, we'll be sitting here in September 2014 talking about the bigs in the '16 class.
|
|
CaliHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,188
|
Post by CaliHoya on Sept 26, 2013 19:20:24 GMT -5
Per Twitter, Elbert is now saying he's visiting campus on October 11th. Huge if true:
|
|
BigmanU
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 915
|
Post by BigmanU on Sept 27, 2013 7:45:13 GMT -5
I may be reaching but, is there any chance Elbert finally set a date to visit again after finding out Chinanu Onuaku was coming for a visit this weekend??
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 27, 2013 7:58:43 GMT -5
I may be reaching but, is there any chance Elbert finally set a date to visit again after finding out Chinanu Onuaku was coming for a visit this weekend?? Maybe, but I had the same thought so at least you're not entirely crazy.
|
|
biggmanu
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 671
|
Post by biggmanu on Sept 27, 2013 8:05:27 GMT -5
This is how it should be
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,405
|
Post by prhoya on Sept 27, 2013 9:51:57 GMT -5
Per Twitter, Elbert is now saying he's visiting campus on October 11th. Huge if true: No more big college football games for the schools he lists?
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 27, 2013 10:18:50 GMT -5
Per Twitter, Elbert is now saying he's visiting campus on October 11th. Huge if true: No more big college football games for the schools he lists? He's clearly very pumped to come see the Hoyas take on Fordham on the MSF on the 12th!
|
|
|
Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Sept 27, 2013 10:37:28 GMT -5
So anuaku is announcing on the 4th and this guy comes on the 11th. Is it possible we pull a 6 man class or is anuaku headed elsewhere?
|
|
|
Post by HoyasAreHungry on Sept 27, 2013 10:45:35 GMT -5
So anuaku is announcing on the 4th and this guy comes on the 11th. Is it possible we pull a 6 man class or is anuaku headed elsewhere? Louisville
|
|