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Post by oakhead on Mar 7, 2013 19:06:51 GMT -5
For what it's worth this is my outlook: this is a nice team, very well coached that would struggle to be 8-8 in the league this year, without number 22. Even with Whit. Otto looked beat against NOVA, tired and spent. This is a player that gives 125% all game, every game and he is a marked man, always getting smacked. As tough as he is, the mental and physical pressure of carrying this team is taking a toll. Not sure about the BE tourney, but with some rest, he will catty this team to the promised land ( final 4 at least) in the NCAAs.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
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Post by mapei on Mar 7, 2013 20:03:25 GMT -5
Otto did look tired, I thought, but this was a classic defensive struggle on both sides. It's just really unfortunate that we couldn't convert on a number of opportunities that V gave us. Otto missed so many 3s. Markel had really stupid turnovers. I don't know that it's fair to say that Nate didn't contribute offensively. The guy did have 5 assists, which, last I knew, was an offensive stat. And when someone says he can't be counted on for 7-8 (or was it 7-9) points per game, that's just wrong. His average is 7.6, exactly in that range. Last night, he and Otto both scored significantly beneath their recent aveage. Nate also had the most rebounds on the team by far. Anyway, I've kind of assumed a role of defending him. I think he's a very good player, given all that he brings to the table. Markel wasn't good at all last night until the end. I think it's because of the icky things he did with his mouth guard. Otto and DSR were ok, not great. V played outstanding defense. We weren't going to end the season winning 13 in a row. Even 11 is as much as any other Hoya team in history. We were due to lose one, and I still feel great about the season. Now let's kick ass against Syracuse Saturday.
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Madgesdiq
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,434
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Post by Madgesdiq on Mar 7, 2013 20:34:20 GMT -5
Nate led the team in rebounds, assists and steals. Solid game and far from the reason we lost.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,362
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Post by calhoya on Mar 7, 2013 21:13:35 GMT -5
Nate is a very good player and when I say he is not an offensive threat, I am overstating the issue. The correct comment is that he needs to be more of a scorer. His assists reflect skill and IQ. His rebounds reflect his strength and effort. However, when he has the ball anywhere more than 7 feet out the other team starts backing off to try to block the passing lanes. It is very obvious on the tape. I really wish he would take the shot. Even a miss would force the defense to play more honestly.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,427
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 7, 2013 21:55:48 GMT -5
. I think the press is a good tool to have in certain situations and against certain opponents, but I don't think our press is good enough to rely on it as much as some people here would like. Our halfcourt defense is also very good, generally, so I don't see any reason to use the press, especially since I don't think it creates nearly enough offense to compensate for the easy baskets we give up when the press is broken. Your press can never be any good if you don't at least work on it.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,427
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 7, 2013 22:01:15 GMT -5
Then it is time to manufacture some offense via a press. Let the guys go at it for a bit in a game. That could get them out of their lull and throw the unsuspecting opponents off balance just enough. Go after the other team for once.
What the Hoyas shouldn't do is allow precious minutes to keep ticking away as they try to get their halfcourt offense in a groove and looking pretty. It does end up working from time to time during the regular season, but i has bit them badly in the post season. And III knows this...or he should by now. If the offense is looking stalled III needs to shake up things a bit, including the lineup. Maybe he needs to even call a timeout to stomp a foot and tell his players to snap out of it. But what he shouldn't do is play some calm, patient waiting game in hopes that the three pointers will start dropping, that the lanes for cuts will suddenly open up and that the other team won't score more than 55 points. It is key to avoid scoring droughts. I don't care what they have to do to avoid such dry spells, just do it. With a 7 man rotation I do not think it is feasible to effectively press..with the 30 plus minutes per game our back court gets plus Otto Porter clocking in over 38 minutes a game, that is a tall order to ask. Markel Starks is already fighting off turnovers and fouling as it is. Jabril Trawick, not having the turnovers as Starks but has been in foul trouble in recent games too. I am all for pressing but the rotation has to be deeper than 7 to be effective...so something would have to give 1)I'm not asking for a press the whole game. I'm saying use it as an option for a few minutes if the offense stalls. Maybe an effective steal or two and a couple of easy baskets could give the offense a boost and/or give enough of a cushion to allow the Hoyas to walk away with a win. 2)Every year the response from HT members is that the Hoyas aren't deep enough to press. Well, that's either a flaw in recruiting able bodies or a flaw in giving enough of the bench players floor time so they can be trusted to perform in such situations.
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Loyal Hoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 554
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Post by Loyal Hoya on Mar 7, 2013 23:52:00 GMT -5
Come on. Devastating? It was a bad loss. Might have cost us the BE title outright. That sucks, but it's hardly devastating. A loss in a one-and-done is devastating. This was a stumbling block to learn from. If it turns out to have been our late-season USF wakeup call, would it still be "devastating"? Only time will tell.
But if we win against Cuse, win in the BE tourney, and make a deep run in the NCAAs, there is absolutely, zero, that is devastating about this loss. Lose in a tourney=devastating. Lose several in a row=devastating. Losing a BE game, on the road, after having won 11 in a row=gonna happen.
SWHoya - I was not trying to be overly dramatic. I got my acceptance letter from Gtown the day after we lost to Villanova in the Finals in 1985. So during my time as a Hoya I have been privileged to see regular season conference championships in 87, 89, 92, 07, and 08 - that's 5 times in 28 years. That is a pretty good record for such a competitive conference, but having the opportunity to win a championship is certainly not an annual occurrence. So when you have a chance to win one, you might as well win it because who knows when the opportunity will come again. Did a wise man once say, "eat the banana?" (And I might add that eating the banana has nothing to do with a 500-pound gorilla, which is really an elephant in the room, not a gorilla, but that's another topic)
So, did I find the game "highly damaging, disappointing, distressing, and grief-inducing?" Yes, I did, but not irredeemably so. That's why I ended the post by saying that I would be there on Saturday when we beat Syracuse to take the championship after all.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 8, 2013 8:15:40 GMT -5
With a 7 man rotation I do not think it is feasible to effectively press..with the 30 plus minutes per game our back court gets plus Otto Porter clocking in over 38 minutes a game, that is a tall order to ask. Markel Starks is already fighting off turnovers and fouling as it is. Jabril Trawick, not having the turnovers as Starks but has been in foul trouble in recent games too. I am all for pressing but the rotation has to be deeper than 7 to be effective...so something would have to give 1)I'm not asking for a press the whole game. I'm saying use it as an option for a few minutes if the offense stalls. Maybe an effective steal or two and a couple of easy baskets could give the offense a boost and/or give enough of a cushion to allow the Hoyas to walk away with a win.
2)Every year the response from HT members is that the Hoyas aren't deep enough to press. Well, that's either a flaw in recruiting able bodies or a flaw in giving enough of the bench players floor time so they can be trusted to perform in such situations.Thanks for the insight...MCIGuy
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gunny
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 560
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Post by gunny on Mar 8, 2013 8:38:06 GMT -5
In order to build my posts up I want to thank TJI for thanking MCI Guy!
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Mar 9, 2013 1:58:20 GMT -5
I'm not even commenting on that game at Villanova. As I have stated before, the depth concerns me. What also concerns me is the amount of attention Otto is going to receive from this point on. Folks kept talking about how "They are nineteen years old" and nineteen year olds don't get tired. Well, they do. Hopefully, we can rebound tomorrow against Syracuse. I am a little bit concerned going forward. My hope is that we can develop a legit third option. We have to get some relief for Otto and a presence in the paint.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 9, 2013 14:15:35 GMT -5
I'm not even commenting on that game at Villanova. As I have stated before, the depth concerns me. What also concerns me is the amount of attention Otto is going to receive from this point on. Folks kept talking about how "They are nineteen years old" and nineteen year olds don't get tired. Well, they do. Hopefully, we can rebound tomorrow against Syracuse. I am a little bit concerned going forward. My hope is that we can develop a legit third option. We have to get some relief for Otto and a presence in the paint. Well today, DSR and Starks reached double digits scoring which gave the team a 3 headed scoring attack.. Gotta see if they keep it up now in the post-season when the 500LB Gorilla shows up
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Just Cos
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Eat 'em up Hoyas
Posts: 1,507
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Post by Just Cos on Mar 9, 2013 14:22:56 GMT -5
I'm not even commenting on that game at Villanova. As I have stated before, the depth concerns me. What also concerns me is the amount of attention Otto is going to receive from this point on. Folks kept talking about how "They are nineteen years old" and nineteen year olds don't get tired. Well, they do. Hopefully, we can rebound tomorrow against Syracuse. I am a little bit concerned going forward. My hope is that we can develop a legit third option. We have to get some relief for Otto and a presence in the paint. Well today, DSR and Starks reached double digits scoring which gave the team a 3 headed scoring attack.. Gotta see if they keep it up now in the post-season when the 500LB Gorilla shows up Such a great day I'm not even going to bring up how unnecessary it was to bring this thread back to life.
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