nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jan 28, 2013 10:37:26 GMT -5
Greg was averaging 35 a game when he went out. I could see him dropping to 30, but playing your second best player 22 minutes a game is madness. He gives us a dimension on defense that just about no other team has. His offensive game is still a work in progress, but he's still good enough to get 12 to 15 a game just by using his size and agility.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 28, 2013 11:20:45 GMT -5
If GW comes back (and it's a big if), I would expect he would get 30 minutes a game. He's such a versatile guy that those minutes probably will come from a ton of places. I would expect a small number to come at the expense of Mikael (who also would continue to lose the minutes he's given up to Moses and Nate already); a minute or two would come from Otto, whose minutes could stand to be dialed down a couple; and then the remainder would come from Bril, AB, and DSR. So that's probably 25 minutes from those three players' current minutes. Bril and DSR are playing 30 minutes or so a game now; I would guess they'd each drop to 20 -- still very significant time. And then you take five minutes from AB, which still leaves him with 5-10 minutes a game. I think that works quite well. (If Mikael plays better, probably everyone else's minutes drop a bit, which is OK too, under those circumstances.)
I still think III probaby views AB as a bit of a loose cannon. The tip-in was a spectacular play, no doubt about it. But was it truly the right play to have made there? If you think he makes that three times out of ten (I can't imagine it's much more than that, and three might be generous), then he's probably better off landing with the ball. If he does, he may well have had a high percentage put-back look himself or a quick pass to someone else for a high percentage close-in shot or an open three. Worse case, they re-set the offense (which I admit, wasn't looking like much better than a three in ten proposition at that stage, but was a bit higher anyway). I think that's a bit of what III sees in analyzing Bowen.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 28, 2013 11:28:54 GMT -5
I don't think GW will be back this year (no inside info here), but I hope his minutes come from what's left of Mikael's. I doubt that, given he's obviously not that low on the rotation, but we're simply getting nothing there.
We've played and we're going to keep playing a lot of close games. We really can't afford the 15 minutes, 0-2, 3 turnover, 0 rebound lines he's been giving us. If he doesn't play against Marquette, do we win that one? USF? If he played more against Louisville, do we win that?
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 28, 2013 11:40:20 GMT -5
Aaron deserves a thread. Where did this guy come from? He got good overnight! He's always been good but now we're seeing the beginning of something really special in Bowen...
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 28, 2013 11:40:44 GMT -5
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 28, 2013 12:40:16 GMT -5
I don't think GW will be back this year (no inside info here), but I hope his minutes come from what's left of Mikael's. I doubt that, given he's obviously not that low on the rotation, but we're simply getting nothing there. We've played and we're going to keep playing a lot of close games. We really can't afford the 15 minutes, 0-2, 3 turnover, 0 rebound lines he's been giving us. If he doesn't play against Marquette, do we win that one? USF? If he played more against Louisville, do we win that? I don't want to hijack the Bowen thread, but I agree completely. While I like Hopkins as a player, his performance this year has been abysmal and he has shown absolutely no improvement from the beginning of the year. I am glad JTIII has lessened his playing time, but anything but spot minutes really drags down our offense. Hopkins does have value on defense, but his poor rebounding and offense outweighs anything he otherwise brings to the table. I'm not ready to give up on Hopkins, but I think his time to shine will not be this year. I am not sure why John Thompson III has generally stuck to him and not played Moses longer (and generally, I support JTIII's decisions on personnel). The only thing I can think of is that Hopkins kills it in practice and then regresses in games, while Moses performs poorly in practice. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense to me. I'm in the camp of people that thinks that Bowen should continue to get minutes once Whittington is back in the lineup, even if Bowen's minutes are diminished somewhat. The nice thing about Bowen is that he has the size to be interchangeable in a bunch of different places. If Bowen continues to work on his defense, I think he'll get playing time.
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biggmanu
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Post by biggmanu on Jan 28, 2013 12:49:24 GMT -5
In no way should Greg steal minutes back from Bowen, DSR, or Bril. Those guys earned those minutes. I think Greg should only be taking Hop's minutes and when Otto and Nate need a rest. At most Bril and DSR get scaled back to 25 min each.
For example, in the second half of the Louisville game JT3 subbed Hop in for Otto. I'm guessing it was just to give Otto a quick breather before crunch time. Hop promptly turned it over.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 28, 2013 12:52:58 GMT -5
If we go "small" -- and we should -- Bowen is a nice backup for Trawick. He plays a similarly reduced role on offense (opportunistic drives, open threes, offensive boards), he has 6'5" size and while he's neither as tough nor as good a defender, his size and athleticism help.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jan 28, 2013 12:56:15 GMT -5
So you don't think Greg "earned" minutes? He is our second best player and he's clearly better than those three guys. I am all for playing Hopkins less or not at all, but it's a really bizarre world where you play worse players more because they "earned" it. I'm fairly skeptical Greg gets back this year, so maybe it's moot, but good god I don't get people on this board. In no way should Greg steal minutes back from Bowen, DSR, or Bril. Those guys earned those minutes. I think Greg should only be taking Hop's minutes and when Otto and Nate need a rest. At most Bril and DSR get scaled back to 25 min each.
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biggmanu
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Post by biggmanu on Jan 28, 2013 13:05:28 GMT -5
I think Greg earned his minutes. Let his team down. And would have to earn them back. What don't you get? I think it's much better to let Greg earn his minutes back than take it from 3 guys who stepped up. From a morale perspective and from the perspective of JT3 getting the most out of his guys.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jan 28, 2013 13:07:23 GMT -5
LOL. Okay we just see things differently. I just think you win games by playing better players more than worse players. To each his own.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 28, 2013 13:10:01 GMT -5
Whittington is a better player than Aaron Bowen, no doubt. But I don't think it is clear he's our second best player (that's different than pro prospect) or even that he is clearly more valuable to the team than number 4, whoever that is.
When he got hot from three last year, he was a plus defender and plus offensive player, but he hasn't been the latter all year. And while he's still our best one on one perimeter defender in most cases, the defense has not fallen apart without him, notching three fantastic defensive performances in five games (and the Providence game is kind of tough to call mediocre) against a Big East slate.
I don't bring this up to criticize Whit - he obviously slides back into the starting lineup. And Bril and everyone else have still outplayed Hop. But Markel and Nate in particular seem to get short shrift in terms of how well they have played.
Starks is clearly a better offensive player than Whitt and is underrated defensively while Nate is shooting 68% by being smart and effective and is a part of an extremely effective defense even though he's being asked to both play PF and C at times. He's defending outside, inside, playing the pick and roll. Whitt is a better offensive and defensive player in that sort of vague sense, but in terms of value on the court, I'm not sure he was more valuable than either Starks or Lubick when playing.
Then again, some of CO's advanced stats like Net Points, disagree with me (has Whitt and Starks more or less equal and Nate trailing) but it's hardly definitive.
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biggmanu
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Post by biggmanu on Jan 28, 2013 13:18:43 GMT -5
NYChoya - I agree with you. But we have won games with these guys.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Jan 28, 2013 13:22:35 GMT -5
It will be nice to simply have Whitt's legs back. Guys like Aaron Bowen who have stepped up over the last five games will "lose" minutes in the sense that we ought to be rotating through our wings more than we were in the fall and more than we are today. I think PT should be re-apportioned with a mind to having fresher players both in each game and for the long haul and that it's not an indictment of their performance.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 28, 2013 13:56:01 GMT -5
Whittington is a better player than Aaron Bowen, no doubt. But I don't think it is clear he's our second best player (that's different than pro prospect) or even that he is clearly more valuable to the team than number 4, whoever that is. When he got hot from three last year, he was a plus defender and plus offensive player, but he hasn't been the latter all year. And while he's still our best one on one perimeter defender in most cases, the defense has not fallen apart without him, notching three fantastic defensive performances in five games (and the Providence game is kind of tough to call mediocre) against a Big East slate. I don't bring this up to criticize Whit - he obviously slides back into the starting lineup. And Bril and everyone else have still outplayed Hop. But Markel and Nate in particular seem to get short shrift in terms of how well they have played. Starks is clearly a better offensive player than Whitt and is underrated defensively while Nate is shooting 68% by being smart and effective and is a part of an extremely effective defense even though he's being asked to both play PF and C at times. He's defending outside, inside, playing the pick and roll. Whitt is a better offensive and defensive player in that sort of vague sense, but in terms of value on the court, I'm not sure he was more valuable than either Starks or Lubick when playing. Then again, some of CO's advanced stats like Net Points, disagree with me (has Whitt and Starks more or less equal and Nate trailing) but it's hardly definitive. I really think Nate Lubick's contribution to this team is often overlooked and underrated. In my mind, Lubick has been crucial to this team's success, largely because we have nobody else who can do what Lubick does. If we had lost Lubick, instead of Whittington, I think we would have been in much worse shape. Don't get me wrong. Whittington is probably a better player, and certainly has much more NBA potential than Lubick, but considering our depth problems with our big men, I think Lubick's success this year has been absolutely key to our success. In many ways, he has covered up Hopkins' poor performance, and allowed us to succeed regardless. Keep in mind, JTIII frequently plays the "small" lineup with Lubick at center, and Porter at the 4. Without Lubick, that "small" lineup is essentially impossible, and that lineup has largely been responsible for our recent success.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jan 28, 2013 14:10:06 GMT -5
Yeah no doubt. And I don't want to argue this anymore because it makes it seem like I'm not happy to see Aaron contributing. I'm VERY happy to see him contributing. Go Aaron! He has plenty to improve on but he plays hard, he's got good size, and he is a plus athlete, so that's a great place to start from. NYChoya - I agree with you. But we have won games with these guys.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jan 28, 2013 17:25:11 GMT -5
#3 on the NCAA top plays of the week: www.ncaa.com/video#!basketball-men/2013-01-28/case-you-missed-it
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 28, 2013 19:59:55 GMT -5
The pulcritude of coaching knowledge and expertise on this site continues to confound and amaze me. Yup it is UNBELIEVABLE yup go hoyas. Maybe the coaches MIGHT know what theyre doing just saying !
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 28, 2013 20:00:34 GMT -5
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DoctorHoya
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Post by DoctorHoya on Jan 28, 2013 22:14:03 GMT -5
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