SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 21, 2012 11:08:49 GMT -5
hoyspaul - Hollis went undrafted. It wasn't strength of draft that kept him out of the first round. Yeah, it was the fact that he had a sports hernia and was already a second rounder. But re: Bowen, I think Greg is a different player. I can't really envision him becoming that type of player, but that's just me. What role do you envision Greg playing on offense? There's only a few roles in the NBA. Either you're the type of guy with the ball in your hands, creating off the dribble, or you're a big man, or you basically spot up on the perimeter. I don't see Greg being a good enough ballhandler to be the first -- most likely spot for him on offense is sitting on the corner three.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Dec 21, 2012 11:14:24 GMT -5
Yeah, it was the fact that he had a sports hernia and was already a second rounder. But re: Bowen, I think Greg is a different player. I can't really envision him becoming that type of player, but that's just me. What role do you envision Greg playing on offense? There's only a few roles in the NBA. Either you're the type of guy with the ball in your hands, creating off the dribble, or you're a big man, or you basically spot up on the perimeter. I don't see Greg being a good enough ballhandler to be the first -- most likely spot for him on offense is sitting on the corner three. I think he improves his handle enough to be serviceable. Maybe a Trevor Ariza with a more consistent jumper?
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 21, 2012 11:35:33 GMT -5
What role do you envision Greg playing on offense? There's only a few roles in the NBA. Either you're the type of guy with the ball in your hands, creating off the dribble, or you're a big man, or you basically spot up on the perimeter. I don't see Greg being a good enough ballhandler to be the first -- most likely spot for him on offense is sitting on the corner three. I think he improves his handle enough to be serviceable. Maybe a Trevor Ariza with a more consistent jumper? Trevor Ariza is a better player (or frankly much different) than Bruce Bowen? But yeah, Ariza is the player I mean. Most of Ariza's value is taking open threes and being able to defend 2/3s.
|
|
|
Post by wahoohoya on Dec 21, 2012 11:38:29 GMT -5
SF - I fully admit I overrate our players chances of making the NBA. But I think you underrate Greg's ability to get to the basket.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 21, 2012 11:49:17 GMT -5
Perhaps I do, Wahoo, but I really can't see Greg being an above average isolation player in the NBA.
Not that he can't take someone off the dribble or make opportunistic drives to the basket. But that his ability is straight isolation situations would be strong enough that his NBA team would run isolations through him on a regular basis.
Perhaps he'll drive more than Bowen did. I'm not trying to say he won't be different. But the role he's going to play in the NBA is complementary player, IMO. And that means playing D, doing the little things, finishing on cuts and on the break and hitting the three.
As a wing, the very best players take the Kobe/LeBron role. And if you aren't good enough to be that guy -- even if you are talented -- you play the complementary role of shooter/defender.
Very few guys really develop from complementary to primary effectively -- Rudy Gay comes to mind. But Ariza was definitely a complementary guy. If you are running isolations on the wing for Trevor Ariza in the long run, your team sucks.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Dec 21, 2012 12:04:38 GMT -5
I think he improves his handle enough to be serviceable. Maybe a Trevor Ariza with a more consistent jumper? Trevor Ariza is a better player (or frankly much different) than Bruce Bowen? But yeah, Ariza is the player I mean. Most of Ariza's value is taking open threes and being able to defend 2/3s. I wasn't trying to compare Bowen an Ariza. Ariza did get an opportunity to see if he could be a go-to NBA player, but it didn't work out for him. I just think that Greg is still very raw. I don't know what type of player he will become, but I think his versatility is a little underrated. It's hard to project a player like him 6'8/6'9 who can handle the rock, but he is definitely a special player.
|
|
|
Post by wahoohoya on Dec 21, 2012 12:04:59 GMT -5
I agree he would be a complimentary player. And I think he's showing the skill set to be a quality complimentary player. Hence, it wouldn't shock me if he was in a position to be drafted in the first round after this year, but I agree he would likely need to continue improving throughout the season for him to be in the conversation.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Dec 21, 2012 12:05:46 GMT -5
SF - I fully admit I overrate our players chances of making the NBA. But I think you underrate Greg's ability to get to the basket. This.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Dec 21, 2012 12:11:19 GMT -5
Perhaps I do, Wahoo, but I really can't see Greg being an above average isolation player in the NBA. Not that he can't take someone off the dribble or make opportunistic drives to the basket. But that his ability is straight isolation situations would be strong enough that his NBA team would run isolations through him on a regular basis. Perhaps he'll drive more than Bowen did. I'm not trying to say he won't be different. But the role he's going to play in the NBA is complementary player, IMO. And that means playing D, doing the little things, finishing on cuts and on the break and hitting the three. As a wing, the very best players take the Kobe/LeBron role. And if you aren't good enough to be that guy -- even if you are talented -- you play the complementary role of shooter/defender. Very few guys really develop from complementary to primary effectively -- Rudy Gay comes to mind. But Ariza was definitely a complementary guy. If you are running isolations on the wing for Trevor Ariza in the long run, your team sucks. The OP might be saying that Greg will be an NBA star (though I don't think he is), but I don't think anybody else is claiming that he's going to be a go-to player in the NBA. He has the ability to be a first rounder based on the type of player he might become, not necessarily on his body of work. Not all first rounders, or even top 20 picks, end up being a primary option on offense. His potential draft position is a completely different discussion than what his NBA impact will be. He doesn't have to be an above average isolation player to have a successful career on offense.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 21, 2012 12:36:00 GMT -5
Not all top 20 picks ending up being a primary option on offense. That is true.
However, once you exclude the big men and focus only on perimeter players, how many Top 20 picks are selected thinking that they won't probably be the primary option on offense?
There aren't a ton. (Jeff might have been one because he was selected in conjunction with Durant).
I see a lot of NBA potential in Greg, but I think we disagree in that I think he needs to show more offense before NBA scouts think he could potentially be that guy enough to draft him in the Top 20.
|
|
seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 4,679
|
Post by seaweed on Dec 21, 2012 12:51:49 GMT -5
i love it when a joke about Aaron Bowen turns into a real serious conversation about someone else also named Bowen.
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,766
|
Post by blueandgray on Dec 21, 2012 12:52:26 GMT -5
Devon ebanks
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 21, 2012 13:02:09 GMT -5
Another interesting comp, but Ebanks was drafted mid-second round.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Dec 21, 2012 13:08:39 GMT -5
The one thing is Greg still needs to grow into his body. He will be at a strength disadvantage with bigger threes in the NBA. To become a good/plus defender in the league he will have to bulk up a little while still maintaining his lateral quickness.
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Dec 21, 2012 15:00:41 GMT -5
Does Greg necessarily project to a 3 in the NBA? Scouts might see him as a 2/3. He plays the 2 in college. Anyway, the big question becomes shooting and finishing consistently.
Strength won't be a risk for scouts. Just something that will need to be addressed.
He could skyrocket up draft boards. The word isn't quite out yet, but he could go higher than Otto if they both come out next year, based on potential. For all of Otto's great attributes, he plays below the rim and I bet scouts will wonder whether he can elevate effectively against elite comp.
Greg won't have that listed as a "risk" in player evaluations.
I think Luol Deng is a very good comp.
|
|
hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,821
|
Post by hoyazeke on Dec 21, 2012 16:40:59 GMT -5
I see Whitt's potential as somewhere between the Ariza/Sepholosha level and the Granger/Joe Johnson level. I admit that I also overrate our players. I called in September for both Whitt and Otto to have seasons good enough to jump to the league.
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,766
|
Post by blueandgray on Dec 21, 2012 19:23:47 GMT -5
Fwiw, there is a good amount of chatter among nba scouts re: Whitt. Whether it translates to him leaving this year or next remains to be seen. I think most would agree he should wait another year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he tested the waters.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Dec 21, 2012 19:33:54 GMT -5
Fwiw, there is a good amount of chatter among nba scouts re: Whitt. Whether it translates to him leaving this year or next remains to be seen. I think most would agree he should wait another year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he tested the waters. True. I wouldn't surprised to see him go the Hollis way and declare to find out what he needs to work on before coming back. Call it a hunch, but I think we may or may not be very anxious in the days leading up to the withdrawal deadline. I could easily see Greg flirting with the idea of jumping if we have a great year and Otto wants to leave too. If Otto goes and Greg stays he will probably be the focal point of our offense.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 2,927
|
Post by NCHoya on Dec 21, 2012 19:44:25 GMT -5
Let's face it Whit is an intriguing prospect. He has great length and defensive versatility, two things that are very hard to teach. At the college level he can guard 4 positions, that is impressive, and will get attention. Now, I do not think that translates to a Top 20 pick alone. I would say he will be a late first rounder. An established team looking for a kid that can play defense and learn to be a contributor on offense sounds about right for Whit.
If he stays and develops a nice offensive game, whether shooting or off the dribble, then things get interesting. But, of course, scouts are going to love the raw qualities they see in whittington. This should not be a surprise at all. If you are not a superstar, or above 6'10"; versatility is next best thing.
|
|