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Post by professorhoya on Dec 18, 2012 14:24:57 GMT -5
I just don't think St. Louis adds much. Their best players were from before the century (Anthony Bonner and Larry Hughes). Besides that they haven't produced any NBA level talent. In the last 10 years they've made 1 NCAA tournament. And they lost Majerus (RIP) so like UConn with the loss of Calhoun and academic scrutiny and probation the future of the program is up in the air IMO. St. Louis is in that group that has one positive. And that positive is media market. I'm not comparing St Louis to Butler or Xavier. They are obviously superior. I think they are inferior to the Zags, but travel may make that prohibitive. But something like VCU? Yes, they've been good recently, but cornering the Richmond market doesn't help. Creighton? Omaha? If you're proposing we just go to nine, that's fine. But please, who is a better option than St. Louis? The only ones in play are the Zags and VCU. Nothing else comes close to my mind. And it looks like media market is more important to the decision makers. Richmond has a 1.3 million market. St. Louis 2.8. However, basketball is not very popular in the St. Louis market. It's baseball, hockey and the rams over there. So you also have to look at market demographics. On top of that if you add the Hampton/Norfolk/VA Beach/Williamsburg area to Richmond that's an additional 1.68 million which would bring VCU's potential market up to 2.98 million.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 18, 2012 14:29:00 GMT -5
I've got Richmond at 1M, not 1.3M, but that's a bit of quibbling.
I'm not opposed to VCU at all. To be honest, aside from a Zags add -- who are of national interest if not a fanbase -- I'd rather not go above 10.
It's the Creightons and the Daytons and then the teams after that -- I'd rather be cautious on those.
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dense
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Post by dense on Dec 18, 2012 14:37:05 GMT -5
I'm not opposed to VCU either..I just think St. Louis is a more logical fit $$ wise and potential interest wise. Also its hard to gauge how popular basketball is in the St. Louis market the Kings left there in the 80's and the ABA before that. If they have major college basketball there it might change.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 18, 2012 14:42:35 GMT -5
I've got Richmond at 1M, not 1.3M, but that's a bit of quibbling. I'm not opposed to VCU at all. To be honest, aside from a Zags add -- who are of national interest if not a fanbase -- I'd rather not go above 10. It's the Creightons and the Daytons and then the teams after that -- I'd rather be cautious on those. The other problem with St. Louis is that I think they would be bottom feeders in the new conference. And on top of basketball not being popular in that area that kind of negates the size of the media market. Also there are other sports (NFL, NHL, MLB) that you are competing with. If you are going to have a bottom feeding team it has to be in an area with a loyal following and no other forms of entertainment or sports to compete with (like Dayton).
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SFOHoya
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Post by SFOHoya on Dec 18, 2012 14:46:19 GMT -5
I cannot understand how we would go all the way across the country to get St. Mary's. I live in San Francisco and didn't realize until this thread that the school wasn't in San Diego...and I follow college basketball a lot. You can call me a nincompoop or whatever you want, 1) SMC makes sense only if Gonzaga requires a travel partner (i.e., what SMC would bring would be Gonzaga), 2) SMC doesn't suck like the rest of the WCC, 3) You should make it out to Moraga to watch a game
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 18, 2012 14:46:34 GMT -5
I'm not opposed to VCU either..I just think St. Louis is a more logical fit $$ wise and potential interest wise. Also its hard to gauge how popular basketball is in the St. Louis market the Kings left there in the 80's and the ABA before that. If they have major college basketball there it might change. The Kansas City Kings were based in Kansas City which is 4 hours away so were never really in the St. Louis market. From what I have seen Hockey is really popular over there and those fans don't seem to transition well to basketball.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 18, 2012 15:00:16 GMT -5
oh and to clarify, the reason I don't want Gonzaga or St. Mary's is the problem you will have with games at Gonzaga being at 10pm or later not ending till midnight. Then Gonzaga fans upset that they cant see their team play because its between 4-6 their time. See I see that as the selling point. It's more inventory for TV. You could show conference games from noon to midnight. Yeah gonzaga fans may be upset about missing some of their games. Sheesh I don't know how people on the west coast manage their sports watching.
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Post by reformation on Dec 18, 2012 15:04:55 GMT -5
I would add as few teams as possible initially to save room for key out of conf matchups. Other than Xavier/Butler there are no sure adds, given Gonzaga's geography.
Its kind of amusing to watch people on the board act as if they are TV execs in sizing up the additl potential adds. As mentioned before the issue with the conf is the lack of high elite teams at the top, not having generally comnpetitive teams who can maybe make a sweet 16 once every 5-10 years.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Dec 18, 2012 17:32:30 GMT -5
Only way I'd go to 12 is if we needed St. Mary's to get Gonzaga. Otherwise I see very little value in adding teams like Creighton, Dayton, SLU, etc.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 18, 2012 23:22:17 GMT -5
Only way I'd go to 12 is if we needed St. Mary's to get Gonzaga. Otherwise I see very little value in adding teams like Creighton, Dayton, SLU, etc. How can you not see value in creighton? Currently ranked (again), 7 ncaa bids since 2000 with an avg home attendance in the nba average range.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Dec 18, 2012 23:27:55 GMT -5
I'll gladly admit I had no idea about the home attendance. Still not sure they help the brand, TV exposure/money, or recruiting, which are my bigger concerns. But I suppose there are no better options that recruits are actually going to be excited to play against.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Dec 19, 2012 4:54:56 GMT -5
Yeah gonzaga fans may be upset about missing some of their games. Sheesh I don't know how people on the west coast manage their sports watching. Yeah, it's not easy - for the Hoyas here, 4pm starts on weekdays and 9am starts on Saturdays are routine. Still, on the flip side, never have to worry about staying up late for a game (I'm thinking other sports, not Hoyas), and it's nice to wake up on the weekends and there's already a game on.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 19, 2012 7:13:34 GMT -5
I'll gladly admit I had no idea about the home attendance. Still not sure they help the brand, TV exposure/money, or recruiting, which are my bigger concerns. But I suppose there are no better options that recruits are actually going to be excited to play against. When you and others say it wont help the brand or will be mid majorish i think you are failing to fully grasp the reality that there are no big brands left to grab without the cancer of fbs fb. In the reality of where we are now, creighton DOES help the brand. It is time to stop worrying about the fb centric mid major term. It is very dated as a concept and guess what no matter what we do people who root for fbs schools are going to use it on us anyway, even if we rent a couple of bad fbs schools till they can defect. Im not afraid of being in a league of mid major cream- which i believe by definition means not mid major. And creighton has shown it is cream to be skimmed for several years now. (Im less thrilled w stl and dayton.) The ooc record will speak for itself.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Dec 19, 2012 8:16:33 GMT -5
WHOEVER WE GET we get and gotta be better than that diluted big east bball yup I trust our pres and athletic director working hard at this along with coach and even pops putting in some advice. WE ARE GEORGETOWN. GO HOYAS beat au too..
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Post by bigelephant on Dec 19, 2012 9:40:27 GMT -5
What's wrong with a nice West Coast trip once a year to play Gonzaga and St Mary's
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 19, 2012 9:48:48 GMT -5
What's wrong with a nice West Coast trip once a year to play Gonzaga and St Mary's Nothing. For basketball. (With the exception of stmary's tiny gym and fanbase.) The real issue is can we (literally) afford to send 20 other non-revenue teams out there regularly for a meaningless game to a small city in washington? This isnt just hoops, gonzaga's non hoops teams as far as i know are not good, and this isnt like selling recruits on a trip to westwood or palo alto during the dc winter to play against huge non-revenue programs. West coast trip sounds a bit glamorous for spending $50k to send the men's tennis team to spokane every other year.
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Dec 19, 2012 10:25:44 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of adding VCU. They are essentially in the extended DC media market, no sense is boosting the profile of a local school. Creighton makes much more sense as an add.
I think if we go to 10 add Butler, Xavier, and Creighton, and if we go to 12: the previous 3 plus Gonzaga and St. Mary's (or other worthy western travel partner).
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Dec 19, 2012 10:34:22 GMT -5
Zaga's teams are: men's baseball, basketball, x-country, golf, rowing, soccer, tennis, and track. women's: basketball, x-country, golf, rowing, soccer, tennis, track, and volleyball - 16 teams competing in the same sports as us. I know nothing about these things though, would it be necessary for every sport to travel every other year? Could scheduling get away with once every four years?
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Post by JWallsTreBalls on Dec 19, 2012 10:47:23 GMT -5
Zaga's teams are: men's baseball, basketball, x-country, golf, rowing, soccer, tennis, and track. women's: basketball, x-country, golf, rowing, soccer, tennis, track, and volleyball - 16 teams competing in the same sports as us. I know nothing about these things though, would it be necessary for every sport to travel every other year? Could scheduling get away with once every four years? This is a really good point, to me this looks like travel only for Men: baseball, basketball, soccer Women: basketball, soccer, volleyball That seems very doable. The rest of our sports play an invitational-like schedule with the exception of tennis which does not seem to have a Big East type schdule.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Dec 19, 2012 11:41:40 GMT -5
For us, yes, especially if we're in a division format where we would only have to travel out there every other year rather than every year.
It's still a hell of a lot of trips east for Gonzaga though.
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