Vermont-Syracuse Discussion

[Big Dog]

Guess I should have vetted my bracket with you this year, Joe.

Or maybe the fact that I won last year with my UConn over Ga. Tech pick is enough to trust my own judgment.

Duke is vastly overrated too. Somebody will knock them out. I just happened to think a Big East team would be able to do it.

[Joe Hoya]

Before you try to compare us, I nailed the Final Four last year too. It wasn't all that hard.

I picked UW-Milwaukee, Vermont, and crossed out Bucknell Wednesday night, so I probably do quite a bit better with this stuff than you'd like to give me credit for. Believe me or don't, I don't care. I just don't understand how people pumped up an average Syracuse team to be world-beaters.

[JohnJacquesLayup]

Joe said:

Before you try to compare us, I nailed the Final Four last year too. It wasn't all that hard.

I picked UW-Milwaukee, Vermont, and crossed out Bucknell Wednesday night, so I probably do quite a bit better with this stuff than you'd like to give me credit for. Believe me or don't, I don't care. I just don't understand how people pumped up an average Syracuse team to be world-beaters.

Average teams don't spend the season in the top 15, and win the Big East. They were a good team that got upset in a delightful way.

[jerseyhoya34]

For Syracuse, however, I see that team as average in the sense that they were par for the course tonight in tournament play. Boeheim is a bad NCAA Tourney coach, and the National Championship apparently didn't change that.

[lichoya68]

the cuse was awful.. warrick was awful despite the double doble he may have had... he thru theball away... or got tied up like a gazzilion times.. we should always root for the big east teams .. i told my wife the tuition just went up another 2000$ cause the cuse and pitt lost.. .dont forget in addition to us looking better ...when our buddies win.. the money from the ncaas to us depends on how far big east teams go in the tourney and how many ... AND ALL THE TEAMS... INCLUDING THE HOYAS... GET MONEY WHEN BIG EAST WINS... so i figure about 2000 addition with pitt and the cuse going out early.... please note the onE excetpion to this rule is bc ... DONT CARE IF WE LOSE MONEY IF THEY LOSE ...CAUSE THEY ARE TRAITORS... DONT CARE ABOUT TUITION RAISES IF THEY LOSE... GO HOYAS... BEAT THE CALIFORNIA DREAMERS ;D ;D ;D ;D

[JohnJacquesLayup]

JerseyHoya34 said:

For Syracuse, however, I see that team as average in the sense that they were par for the course tonight in tournament play. Boeheim is a bad NCAA Tourney coach, and the National Championship apparently didn't change that.

While I agree that they were bad tonight they have done fairly well in tourney play of all kinds the past couple years. I suppose it doesn't matter how good or bad they were; one thing we all will agree on is how nice it is that they've lost.

[FLHoya]

Joe said:

Before you try to compare us, I nailed the Final Four last year too. It wasn't all that hard.

I picked UW-Milwaukee, Vermont, and crossed out Bucknell Wednesday night, so I probably do quite a bit better with this stuff than you'd like to give me credit for. Believe me or don't, I don't care. I just don't understand how people pumped up an average Syracuse team to be world-beaters.

Darnit!! He just BARELY beat me to the punch!

I'm reading all of these posts Joe's been making tonight about the Duke game being on too long and Sorrentine...and I'm thinking: JUST SAY IT ALREADY!! YOU PICKED VERMONT AND BUCKNELL!! Cut to the chase! If you want some props, "Champion, 2004 Hoyatalk Tournament Challenge," then it's mad props for you for two gutsy picks.

(Makes me look dumb for being one of the people who pumped Syracuse up to be a Final Four team...although funny, I don't feel sad at all about losing that bracket for some reason...)

Just let's get it over with so you don't self-congratulate your way into becoming Duke to the rest of the Tournament Challenge/Message Board's Vermont.

[Big Dog]

If the champion of the Big East tournament is average, I guess our whole conference is worse than I thought.

The fact is that Vermont is a good club that will be a tough out for anybody because they can get hot from outside and they've got big bodies inside that are skilled on both ends of the floor.

I assume, Joe, that you're currently perfect through Round 1.

[RDF]

Everyone talks about Syracuse being a "trendy pick" to win it all--who the hell thought that? They have 1 guy who can consistently shoot from deep and he's stunk for the past 10 games in terms of percentages. If McNamara isn't shooting well from outside, they are cooked and you saw that tonight. Key to the team led by Carmelo Anthony was the Cuse got great contributions from Jeremy McNeil, Kueth Duany, and Billy Edelin. Throw in Warrick, Pace, and McNamara and you can see why they won. Replace those role players with McCroskey, Watkins, Roberts, and Nichols and you are going home after a Round 1 loss.

BTW, I hope the town of Scranton has a letdown so bad that everyone is burning their McNamara jerseys! ;D

[FLHoya]

Anyways, thanks to the lack of switching on CBS down in Florida (Duke was the primary game down in Florida so it really took a while to switch) I only caught the last 3 of regulation plus overtime. I can't comment much on the rest of the game.

But what I saw at the end and in overtime was one of my favorite things about March Madness. It's when the well-coached, smart, disciplined low seed takes the game onto their terms. And there's that moment--usually accompanied by the shot of the bench--when the favored team (and it only works if it's a big name--Syracuse and Kansas, YES! Florida? Not so much.) has that look in their eyes:

Oh crap.

And you can see it slipping away.

However ugly the game itself was, Vermont did it just right in the final moments. You pull the ball out, shorten the game up, and get exactly the kind of shot you want. It didn't hurt that from the final minutes to overtime, they were hitting from everywhere in the Bay State.

But that's the funny thing--when you see a team that well coached and executing that well (remember Princeton and UCLA), you start to wonder whether those shots are so lucky after all...like maybe that's exactly the shot they wanted.

Upsets are fun. Small school kids going nuts is fun. But for me, seeing Gerry McNamara self destruct or Kansas look like a bunch of space cadets...that's even better. Because it's so out of the ordinary, it's so amazing to behold. Two teams that played for a National Title two years ago...brought down by Catamounts and Bison of all things.

Syracuse may have turned it over too much, and shot awful. Kansas apparently felt playing against Bison necessitated the Matador Defense.

But in the end, I like to think that the guy in the ugly brown pants (somebody take the Bucknell coach to Men's Wearhouse!)...or Coach Brennan from Burlington...or that German guy who was channeling Tarvis Williams against Iowa State...or that guy who isn't Coppenrath or Sorrentine...took it from the Great Powers on their own terms.

I love teams that do that. That's why I'm rooting for Vermont again on Sunday. Because the thought of Vermont playing against Duke in a Sweet 16 game is too tantalizing. I mean, in this tournament of GM and AMex commercials...not to mention Dukie V doing car ads and Hooters and DiGiorno ads...we need a little bit of the Green Mountain State.

A team that (if it happened) would have beaten Syracuse and Michigan State...a retiring coach...two amazing yet not well known players and a motley cast of, well, America East guys...a Duke team just capable enough of having that bad a day...a Vermont team just capable of enough of having that good a day.

I mean, if ever there's an underdog and a situation America can get behind...GO CATAMOUNTS!!

[FLHoya]

RDF said:

Everyone talks about Syracuse being a "trendy pick" to win it all--who the hell thought that? They have 1 guy who can consistently shoot from deep and he's stunk for the past 10 games in terms of percentages. If McNamara isn't shooting well from outside, they are cooked and you saw that tonight. Key to the team led by Carmelo Anthony was the Cuse got great contributions from Jeremy McNeil, Kueth Duany, and Billy Edelin. Throw in Warrick, Pace, and McNamara and you can see why they won. Replace those role players with McCroskey, Watkins, Roberts, and Nichols and you are going home after a Round 1 loss.

BTW, I hope the town of Scranton has a letdown so bad that everyone is burning their McNamara jerseys! ;D

I know that...NOW!!! ;D

[Joe Hoya]

Big said:

I assume, Joe, that you're currently perfect through Round 1.

25/32

You can't win a pool in the first round. But you certainly can lose it.

The point I made was that Syracuse was a chic pick to win a lot of games in this year's tournament. I didn't see it - they have been better each of the last two years, and they didn't get a favorable draw, with a good Vermont team, a deep Michigan State team, and then Duke as their likely first three opponents. The key to doing well is picking the last few games right, not the first few, and I was trying to make the point that anyone who put any amount of confidence in the 'Cuse deserved what they got.

I'm only 25-7 right now, but I still have 15 of 16 second round winners left. I'm fairly satisfied with that. That was the point I was trying to make, not that I'm a super-genius because I picked two upsets that weren't really very surprising.

Now if I had stayed with Bucknell...then there would have been some major gloating. But I'll save it 'til the end.

[FLHoya]

Joe said:

25/32

You can't win a pool in the first round. But you certainly can lose it.

The point I made was that Syracuse was a chic pick to win a lot of games in this year's tournament. I didn't see it - they have been better each of the last two years, and they didn't get a favorable draw, with a good Vermont team, a deep Michigan State team, and then Duke as their likely first three opponents. The key to doing well is picking the last few games right, not the first few, and I was trying to make the point that anyone who put any amount of confidence in the 'Cuse deserved what they got.

I'm only 25-7 right now, but I still have 15 of 16 second round winners left. I'm fairly satisfied with that. That was the point I was trying to make, not that I'm a super-genius because I picked two upsets that weren't really very surprising.

Now if I had stayed with Bucknell...then there would have been some major gloating. But I'll save it 'til the end.

Again, this is why I love brackets.

On the one hand, "Champion, 2004 Hoyatalk Tournament Challenge" is lecturing us on the perils of Syracuse as a "chic pick" (which is one of those phrases you can never seem to use without sounding pretentious) and saving his gloating "'til the end" while managing in the previous paragraph to gloat about his performance so far.

On the other, there's still that 16 year old kid from Alabama who's $10,000 richer or something like that from winning the whole ESPN thing last year.

Everyone has a "system". Until it doesn't work. Personally, I'm thinking of outsourcing my bracket next year to an elaborate system of Cow Plop Bingo. Maybe then I'll start picking those 8-9 games right.

[TBird41]

FLHoya said:

A team that (if it happened) would have beaten Syracuse and Michigan State...a retiring coach...two amazing yet not well known players and a motley cast of, well, America East guys...a Duke team just capable enough of having that bad a day...a Vermont team just capable of enough of having that good a day.

I mean, if ever there's an underdog and a situation America can get behind...GO CATAMOUNTS!!

I'm with you on that---Somebody's gotta take Duke down, and since it's not gonna be Cuse, it might as well be Vermont (actually, it better be Vermont b/c people have MSU doing it in my pool--gotta love Duke hatred)

[JimmyHoya]

Gotta love the moxy of Sorrantine. Can't believe he made that shot!

[lrwilbur]

It is a great day to be a HOYA fan in upstate New York - 1/2 hour west of Syracuse. I can't wait until Monday at work to hear all the annoying SU fans complain about this and that - officiating, blah. blah, blah... GO HOYAS!!!

[jerseyhoya34]

LOL. Welcome to the board. I particularly enjoyed yesterday's pre-game article about how their players didn't like the floor in Worcester. If that does not personify a Boeheim team, I do not know what does.

[HoyaFanNY]

vermont is my new 2nd favorite team. other than the hoyas winning, watching syracuse lose makes me the happiest. everyone i work with picked this crap team to make it to the final 4, except me. 4 people actually had them winning the whole thing. i told them this syracuse team has major flaws and could not possibly have a 6 game run of good play in them. mcnamara is a pig and it's about time people see him for chucker he is. he's had plenty of games like this throughout the season. watching him launch bad shot after bad shot was comical. he and warrick dominated the ball too much. pace has to be more involved for this team to win. if warrick spent as much time learning a hook shot or turn around jumper as he does crying to the refs theb maybe he'd have some game outside a dunk. he launches himself into defenders every time he shoots, then cries when they correctly call an offensive foul or no call at all. i love watching them lose.

you can't spell sucks without su.

[hoyarooter]

If Duke plays Vermont in the Sweet 16, everyone in the US who didn't attend Duke other than honorary alumnus Duke Vitale will be rooting for Vermont. And Duke will probably win 64-34.