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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Jun 29, 2012 11:19:34 GMT -5
Gilbert Arenas is a famous one. He was 30th overall though, just snuck into the 2nd, so not really a "late second round" guy. A guy like Ramon Session was picked right near the end of his draft and has developed into a solid starter since. It's not unheard of to get a guy in the late 2nd who can hang in and contribute off the bench, but pretty rare to see a star go that late. Which I think is the point... the odds are very much against a mid to late 2nd round pick ever doing anything meaningful in the league. Many times these guys don't even make the roster. So if that's the case, why not take a flyer on a European player and hope he breaks out? If he turns into somebody who can play in the NBA, terrific. If he doesn't, what did you lose? You haven't paid him a dime and haven't invested any time in him. Sure you could have taken a more known American player, and maybe upgraded your 12th man. But why bother? You have to pay that guy and invest time and a roster spot in him and it really doesn't measurably improve your team. Every year at this time of the year people talk about second round picks like they're meaningful, and every fan of a team who took an American player in the 2nd thinks he's going to be a rotation player for them. But it generally doesn't go that way. If you look back at the second round players from 2006, 2007, 2008 etc. there's a lot of "Oh yea, I remember that guy... wonder what he's doing now...." and very few guys who made any impact at all in the NBA. I think all of us get a little bored and/or frustrated when you see a bunch of foreigners whose names we don't know and can't say being picked while guys who we knew were pretty good in college go undrafted. But strategically, I find it hard to argue with. great post as usual +1 As a reminder, PE2 was drafted in the second round, but he has rarely contributed in the league. There is not so much difference between getting drafted in the 2nd round vs. not getting drafted at all IMO. And look at the studs who barely made it into the 2nd round. Guys whom a lot of people thought were going into the first round like Kris Joseph and those studs from Marquette who dominated in the Big East were all drafted in the mid-2nd round. Compared to them, how much have Hollis and Henry contributed in the college play? |
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jun 29, 2012 12:00:38 GMT -5
It would be one thing if those European players looked like they might be good enough, but those guys drafted last night were just tall. They were not lighting up the leagues in Spain or Italy or putting up numbers for their countries in international competition.
In recent years, 4-year big men such as Aaron Gray, Harangody, Macklin have been drafted in the late 2nd round and at least made the roster and got a few nice paychecks.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Jun 29, 2012 12:13:11 GMT -5
for every one of those names you can literally name about 40 that missed. But cool using exceptions to a rule really strengthen an argument....not really Can you give some examples of late second round college guys that panned out? yes. |
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Jun 29, 2012 12:16:01 GMT -5
What very many of you fail to understand is that it's not very hard to get drafted [/quote] What?[/quote] case and point the foreigners. Their games don't fit the NBA game, for the very large part, and they aren't very good but still get drafted. My point wasn't clear but it was meant to deter the notion that Hollis was misguided about his chances of being drafted. |
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Yaboynyp
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Post by Yaboynyp on Jun 29, 2012 12:23:16 GMT -5
NBA teams picking a Euro late in the second is = to them saying Pass
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hoya95
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Post by hoya95 on Jun 29, 2012 12:36:09 GMT -5
Since the second best thing to having a great player in the NBA is to have a bloated, expiring contract, seeing teams use the second round to draft a European player they don't have to pay and may never see makes perfect sense.
Was really hoping to see Henry or Hollis get drafted, but it's hard to argue. They'll get to go to camps and try to impress people. It's going to be a ton of work, but hopefully they can make it.
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Yaboynyp
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Post by Yaboynyp on Jun 29, 2012 12:38:20 GMT -5
Jay Bilas @jaybilas
Surprised Henry Sims, Kevin Jones, Drew Gordon and Scott Machado went undrafted. And I don't believe Izzet TurkyIlmaz actually exists.
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Yaboynyp
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Post by Yaboynyp on Jun 29, 2012 12:39:48 GMT -5
@chadfordinsider Best players undrafted last night: Scott Machado, Terrell Stoglin, Kevin Jones, Hollis Thompson, Drew Gordon, Henry Sims
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jun 29, 2012 12:45:13 GMT -5
He loses credibility with the Stoglin comment. That guy is a Costanza-esque Chucker.
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Post by flyoverhoya on Jun 29, 2012 12:54:23 GMT -5
Guys whom a lot of people thought were going into the first round like Kris Joseph and those studs from Marquette who dominated in the Big East were all drafted in the mid-2nd round. Compared to them, how much have Hollis and Henry contributed in the college play? Fair point with respect to Darius Johnson-Odom (although even there I didn't see many suggestions that he would be a first round pick, outside of the predictions of some real Wisconsin "homers") but it doesn't surprise me that Jae Crowder was mid 2d round. Big East POY or not, he's only about 6'4" and I'm not sure what sort of role he has on most NBA rosters. |
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jun 29, 2012 12:58:32 GMT -5
Maybe people see Crowder as a more physical Wesley Matthews and he got the benefit of the doubt (I realize dif't positions but that is the closest NBA comparison I could think of).
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Jun 29, 2012 13:31:10 GMT -5
I really wasn't expecting Hollis to be drafted. Thought Sims would get a look in the late 2nd.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Jun 29, 2012 14:54:57 GMT -5
Guys whom a lot of people thought were going into the first round like Kris Joseph and those studs from Marquette who dominated in the Big East were all drafted in the mid-2nd round. Compared to them, how much have Hollis and Henry contributed in the college play? Fair point with respect to Darius Johnson-Odom (although even there I didn't see many suggestions that he would be a first round pick, outside of the predictions of some real Wisconsin "homers") but it doesn't surprise me that Jae Crowder was mid 2d round. Big East POY or not, he's only about 6'4" and I'm not sure what sort of role he has on most NBA rosters. Non of those players in the previous post were projected as first rounders. In fact, some were lower than Henry and maybe Hollis. What blows my mind is how John Jenkins can get drafted at 23 and a player like Hollis go undrafted. Call me biased, which I am, but Hollis offers more value, if just only in his size. Better defender, comparable shooter, better rebounder, and neither is particularly adept at creating. Hollis is better there too and Jenkins is barely 6'4". |
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Post by ahoya2 on Jun 29, 2012 15:31:16 GMT -5
Feel sorry for Hollis but he didn't get his shot off quickly and didn't do well when challenged( see Big East Tournament and a couple airballs fired from the wing. Like how he improved on D and the boards last year but never thought he would get drafted.
Surprised someone didn't take a flyer on Sims. Then again, he is not very athletic. Wish them both the best and thank them for their years on the team.
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ottomatic
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Post by ottomatic on Jun 29, 2012 15:58:21 GMT -5
At least they have summer league to make a roster, unlike last year
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dudeslade
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Post by dudeslade on Jun 29, 2012 16:29:25 GMT -5
Is there a cap to how many undrafted FAs a team can bring in for summer league/tryouts? I ask because as a Lakers fan, honestly I'd love to see Hollis, Henry, Machado, Kevin Jones, and Drew Gordon all get brought in and see if any of them can make it. Hollis can provide that shooting we desperately need. Machado, the playmaking. Henry has a bit of Pau's passing in the post and could learn from him. Jones & Gordon provide grit and rebounding. I could see at least a couple of those guys being solid rotation guys in a year or two.
I know everyone is looking to model themselves on the Heat or Thunder, but bringing in 3 superstars through free agency or having 4 top 5 picks in 3 years (plus I think 24 on Ibaka) is just not a model you can expect to follow. To me, the model should be the Spurs. They grabbed the top record this last year and came close to making the Finals because they've done an excellent job of utilizing the back half of the 1st round and their 2nd round picks plus picking up Undrafted guys or guys who played in Europe a few years to build a strong rotation. Parker, Ginobili, Splitter all fit the Euro flyer bill many have spoken on in this thread that actually panned out - of course, all 3 were known to be strong players previously with a real desire to play in the NBA, which couldn't be said for a few of the guys drafted last night. Then you look at guys who were later picks or undrafted or playing in Europe like Leonard, Neal, Blair, Bonner, Anderson, Byars, Green, etc. They know they have a solid nucleus and used their assets wisely to bring in athletic guys with specific skills or good potential or solid role players with specific roles like Bonner's shooting, and create a great rotation.
You still need the stars to win it all, but it surprises me that more teams don't follow that Spurs model when it's been so successful. As a Laker fan, it's been especially frustrating to watch us sell off picks, include them needlessly in trades to get rid of them, or otherwise ignore any value. I think it's why they got old and had a short bench. They only recently have found guys that in a year or two might provide solid minutes like Devin Ebanks and Darius Morris. We'll see. But with the D-League, I don't see why you wouldn't get a guy to develop there and bring up when he can earn minutes or leave in Europe and bring over later, rather than waste the picks or sell them. I see Hollis or Henry being guys that a smart team like the Spurs might do that with because they have transferable skills in shooting and passing abilities that are unique and can get plugged into the rotation for some solid minutes.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 29, 2012 16:49:38 GMT -5
Feel sorry for Hollis but he didn't get his shot off quickly and didn't do well when challenged( see Big East Tournament and a couple airballs fired from the wing. Like how he improved on D and the boards last year but never thought he would get drafted. Surprised someone didn't take a flyer on Sims. Then again, he is not very athletic. Wish them both the best and thank them for their years on the team. Hollis can't shoot and Henry is a stiff, but I wish them the best.  |
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jun 29, 2012 16:56:56 GMT -5
Hollis would have to go 5 for 51 from three to drop down to Bradley Beal's shooting percentage and Beal is supposed to be the best shooter in the draft.
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Post by jctnhoya4ever on Jun 29, 2012 19:12:56 GMT -5
georgetown players get a bad rap about not being athletic players.they are all labled system players.the princeton system is all you ever here.the perception is hoyas players are not good athletes. that is why hoyas players are not getting drafted.jay williams was saying just the other day on the upcoming draft show on espn,he thinks hollis thompson is a good athlete but,the g-town system people think they are not good athletes.it is a bad rap the program has now with the offence jt3 runs. it is not right,but the experts always say that this player or that player benefitted because the princeton system hoyas use.
go hoyas.
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royski
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Post by royski on Jun 29, 2012 19:25:29 GMT -5
Lock it up!
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