hoya4ever
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Post by hoya4ever on May 20, 2012 16:42:04 GMT -5
You are right of course and maybe I should have worded my statement better. The Jesuits are Catholic; there is no question as to that. They do however instill a sense of inter-religious, intercultural, inter[otherword] in their institutes of learning. Take Georgetown, Gonzaga, Loyola, Xavier, and all the others; they all say that the pursuit of diverse education and knowledge is paramount to their learning. I know these are buzz words that any college can use but even going further and using the core values of Jesuit education we can see that Interreligious Understanding and Community in Diversity are central to us. As I am sure you know, the Jesuit order was founded by a former soldier who acquired the spiritual strength necessary to do such a thing after studying more deeply. Though born a Catholic, Loyola experienced the conversion through academic means. His companions were all university students. We are rooted in Catholicism (a fact that I actually like) and we are founded by scholars. Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam should be our main concern and the Jesuits started accomplishing this through the study of the human relationship with God. The Jesuits have recently affirmed their obedience to the Pope and, as a Catholic order, that is only proper. I don't know how much of a Jesuit one would be however without studying ourselves and our actions. That includes different perspectives from our own. This examined faith is the work of scholars. University educated in a Jesuit tradition (see core values) and open to different perspectives. I do not advocate that Georgetown agree with the non-Catholic views of a speaker. I do hope however that Georgetown has trained its students enough to grasp an opportunity to see the other side and to have a conversation with themselves and each other about the values they espouse. The people protesting the speech have every right to do so. However, they should offer debates like the educated individuals and believers they are instead of just protesting. I'll be quiet now. Let me know if I got something wrong. I like the fact that you respond without getting incensed and that is really all I want from Georgetown grads: a dialogue.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 20, 2012 18:52:31 GMT -5
I have an honest question for those who are concerned Georgetown is losing its Catholic identity: What are you looking for Georgetown to be as a University? Are you looking it to be a preeminent academic center of learning and progress or are you looking for it to be a preeminent center for Catholic religious thought? Or, how do you realistically suppose we combine the two better than we have right now? I'm struggling to understand why blocking out everyone who opposes some minor subsection of Catholic doctrine from speaking enhances students' ability to critically analyze the world around them to be able to later go out and engage in civil discourse with those with whom they disagree. The world does not exist in a Catholic bubble, and is it not the role of Georgetown to teach students how to use their faith to engage with others and shape public policy to meet the needs of all global citizens, not just people of the Catholic faith? To be able to do that, students need to learn how to constructively dialogue with others, and constructive dialogue doesn't consist of "I don't agree with you so I'm not going to listen to what you have to say." What are you characterizing as "some minor subsection of Catholic doctrine?" If it's what I think you're referring to, there may be some disagreement as to how "minor" that issue is to the Church. Here's a question I'd be interested in someone answering: In 2012, what makes Georgetown a Catholic university? Granted, I left the hilltop a few years back (the Law Center in 2001 and, more materially, undergrad in '98), but other than seeing some Jesuits around campus, Dahlgren Chapel sitting in the middle of campus, and one of my junior/senior roommates having a painting of Pope John Paul II (that I think was from Campus Ministry) in our townhouse, I can't really say there was all that much that was "Catholic" about Georgetown in my experience. I didn't have any Jesuit professors in my four years. My two theology classes were Intro to Bib Lit and some other class I don't remember. My sole interaction with Father Leo was when we traveled to basketball games. For a university that occasionally trumpets it's Catholicism, there doesn't seem to be a lot of deeds to back up that identity.
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CWS
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Post by CWS on May 21, 2012 8:14:23 GMT -5
Some great concerns/questions in the above. Some of my own thoughts:
All Catholic students are the same? I don’t think there’s not one way of being a Catholic university. A Catholic university, like all Catholic institutions, should serve the Gospel in some way. But given that there are different types of students, I like to think of all Catholic universities as part of one project to educate and serve the Gospel, but in different ways. They HAVE to be different, because what works for one student is not going to work for another. To underscore what others have hinted at: if we became the kind of Catholic university some want us to be, we would lose the students we have now (and faculty). And where do those students who would have gone to Georgetown go? NYU? Duke? Virginia? Places where religion in general and Catholicism in particular are not taken as seriously. Students love Problem of God because it helps them become more educated, thoughtful about religion in general and forces them to think about issues that every thoughtful person should consider but often never do (e.g., meaning of life, destiny, purpose, etc.).
Repeat it enough times, and they’ll believe it? There is an assumption sometimes among conservatives that if we just keep repeating the right answers, students will believe it. Not only will that not work for many Georgetown students, it pushes them away from religion. I have seen over and over again: students who find their faith precisely because they were given the space to be critical of it. When I teach sexual ethics, I cover official church views but I also look at voices critical of it. When I asked Cardinal McCarrick whether I could do so and still have the Church’s “mandatum,” he answered without pause, “Yes.” This is not just academically necessary, it also allows a deeper, more stable (because more tested) faith commitment.
Pelvic Theology My fear is that these tensions are driven almost exclusively by what one Jesuit calls “pelvic theology”, a theology that centers on issues in the pelvic region (abortion, homosexuality, contraceptives). Catholicism is a great intellectual and spiritual tradition, one that gave us Dante, Fra Angelico, Bach, Baroque architecture, etc. with all its sacramental instinct expressed so wonderfully in Irenaeus’ “Glory of God is man fully alive”, Ignatius’ “finding God in all things,” or Gerard Manley Hopkins “The world is charged with grandeur of God.” To see it reduced in the public eye to concerns for keeping gays celibate and birth control pills away from women is painful for many devout Catholics who love the beauty and richness of this wonderful tradition. There’s much more to being a Catholic university than saying “no” to certain expressions relating to Pelvic Theology (e.g., Vagina Monologues, LGTBQ center, etc.).
Producing Catholic leaders? Here’s what the national vocation promoter of the Society of Jesus, has said: “I can also tell you that Georgetown is the ONLY institution that we have (of our 28 colleges and Universities and 65 high schools) that has produced AT LEAST one vocation every year for the past 50 years.” Also: Georgetown has been a leading producer of graduates in service organizations like, Teach for America, JVC, Peace Corps, etc.
The Bad I don’t want to sell the concerns short. The academy is by instinct left-leaning and critical of conventional wisdom, and thus there will always be a need to challenge it to include more conservative voices. Also, I think Georgetown could do a better job in engaging the full beauty and richness of the Catholic tradition (or at least, giving students more opportunities to explore it). My ‘push’ would not be on the “no” side (excluding this or that conversation) but on the “yes” side (e.g., include more studies of contemporary Catholic figures and novelists, liturgical reflections, retreats [really looking forward to the building of the new retreat center], science and religion, etc.).
The Good At the same time, I believe there is something almost magical about what we have accomplished at Georgetown. A place where all the greatness of a secular academy can be found, with its penchant toward relentless deconstruction and restlessly critical investigation of received wisdom, and yet a humble recognition of something greater and the mystery of human existence, of the eternal questions that confront the human condition, of the inadequacy of narrow reason to answer the aspirations for destiny and meaning. And through all that humble and humbling exploration, a constant engagement with a tradition that believes it has found life-giving answers.
Catholic university: I haven’t answered what I think a Catholic/Jesuit university is, but such a university, in my mind, centers on the ‘good’ of this last paragraph: a formation of students who are capable of and eager for a critical and humble reflection on the great issues of human existence in dialogical engagement with the full richness of the Catholic intellectual tradition.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on May 21, 2012 8:26:09 GMT -5
What am I looking for in a Catholic college? I’m looking for a college that teaches Catholic doctrine to all of its students. A college where its students are predominantly Catholics who will become the Catholic leaders of tomorrow. A college where the professors and instructors of Catholic doctrine are apologists for the Catholic faith. A college whose actions reflect its commitment to Catholicism. A college where students progress in their Catholic faith during their stay at that college. This is what it means when you attach the term, Catholic, to your description and this is the first and foremost requirement of being a Catholic college. Fortunately it is a Jesuit school instead.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 21, 2012 8:28:17 GMT -5
What am I looking for in a Catholic college? I’m looking for a college that teaches Catholic doctrine to all of its students. A college where its students are predominantly Catholics who will become the Catholic leaders of tomorrow. A college where the professors and instructors of Catholic doctrine are apologists for the Catholic faith. A college whose actions reflect its commitment to Catholicism. A college where students progress in their Catholic faith during their stay at that college. This is what it means when you attach the term, Catholic, to your description and this is the first and foremost requirement of being a Catholic college. Fortunately it is a Jesuit school instead. Really? How so?
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thebin
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Post by thebin on May 21, 2012 8:32:58 GMT -5
Read the university's mission statement and tell me it jibes at all with EasyEd's definition of a Catholic university. Which by the way sounds a lot more like Notre Dame or Catholic U than any Jesuit school I've ever attended. (I've attended 4 Catholic schools- 3 of which were SJ.)
"Georgetown University is one of the world’s leading academic and research institutions, offering a unique educational experience that prepares the next generation of global citizens to lead and make a difference in the world. We are a vibrant community of exceptional students, faculty, alumni and professionals dedicated to real-world applications of our research, scholarship, faith and service.
Established in 1789, Georgetown is the nation’s oldest Catholic and Jesuit university. Drawing upon this legacy, we provide students with a world-class learning experience focused on educating the whole person through exposure to different faiths, cultures and beliefs. With our Jesuit values and location in Washington, D.C., Georgetown offers students a distinct opportunity to learn, experience and understand more about the world."
"Georgetown’s Jesuit tradition also promotes the university’s commitment to spiritual inquiry, civic engagement, and religious and cultural pluralism. "
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 21, 2012 9:00:36 GMT -5
Read the university's mission statement and tell me it jibes at all with EasyEd's definition of a Catholic university. Which by the way sounds a lot more like Notre Dame or Catholic U than any Jesuit school I've ever attended. (I've attended 4 Catholic schools- 3 of which were SJ.) "Georgetown University is one of the world’s leading academic and research institutions, offering a unique educational experience that prepares the next generation of global citizens to lead and make a difference in the world. We are a vibrant community of exceptional students, faculty, alumni and professionals dedicated to real-world applications of our research, scholarship, faith and service. Established in 1789, Georgetown is the nation’s oldest Catholic and Jesuit university. Drawing upon this legacy, we provide students with a world-class learning experience focused on educating the whole person through exposure to different faiths, cultures and beliefs. With our Jesuit values and location in Washington, D.C., Georgetown offers students a distinct opportunity to learn, experience and understand more about the world." "Georgetown’s Jesuit tradition also promotes the university’s commitment to spiritual inquiry, civic engagement, and religious and cultural pluralism. " Is that it, a blurb on the University website? My question is/was whether it is a Jesuit institution in name only, or in its deeds and actions?
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 21, 2012 9:20:00 GMT -5
Read the university's mission statement and tell me it jibes at all with EasyEd's definition of a Catholic university. Which by the way sounds a lot more like Notre Dame or Catholic U than any Jesuit school I've ever attended. (I've attended 4 Catholic schools- 3 of which were SJ.) "Georgetown University is one of the world’s leading academic and research institutions, offering a unique educational experience that prepares the next generation of global citizens to lead and make a difference in the world. We are a vibrant community of exceptional students, faculty, alumni and professionals dedicated to real-world applications of our research, scholarship, faith and service. Established in 1789, Georgetown is the nation’s oldest Catholic and Jesuit university. Drawing upon this legacy, we provide students with a world-class learning experience focused on educating the whole person through exposure to different faiths, cultures and beliefs. With our Jesuit values and location in Washington, D.C., Georgetown offers students a distinct opportunity to learn, experience and understand more about the world." "Georgetown’s Jesuit tradition also promotes the university’s commitment to spiritual inquiry, civic engagement, and religious and cultural pluralism. " That mission statement is a great illustration of the problem. Except for referring to Georgetown being the oldest Catholic college, the statement says nothing about its Catholicism. This pleases you, thebin, but it certainly does not describe a Catholic college. It describes any generalized college.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 21, 2012 9:27:55 GMT -5
CWS, thanks for a thougtful and interesting perspective. I encourage others to offer the same. However, your last paragraph that you regard as the key is pabulum. I repeat it: "a formation of students who are capable of and eager for a critical and humble reflection on the great issues of human existence in dialogical engagement with the full richness of the Catholic intellectual tradition." How does the "Catholic intellectual tradition" manifest itself in the classroom and in the college life?
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nodak89
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Post by nodak89 on May 21, 2012 9:30:37 GMT -5
Some great concerns/questions in the above. Some of my own thoughts: All Catholic students are the same? I don’t think there’s not one way of being a Catholic university. A Catholic university, like all Catholic institutions, should serve the Gospel in some way. But given that there are different types of students, I like to think of all Catholic universities as part of one project to educate and serve the Gospel, but in different ways. They HAVE to be different, because what works for one student is not going to work for another. To underscore what others have hinted at: if we became the kind of Catholic university some want us to be, we would lose the students we have now (and faculty). And where do those students who would have gone to Georgetown go? NYU? Duke? Virginia? Places where religion in general and Catholicism in particular are not taken as seriously. Students love Problem of God because it helps them become more educated, thoughtful about religion in general and forces them to think about issues that every thoughtful person should consider but often never do (e.g., meaning of life, destiny, purpose, etc.). Repeat it enough times, and they’ll believe it? There is an assumption sometimes among conservatives that if we just keep repeating the right answers, students will believe it. Not only will that not work for many Georgetown students, it pushes them away from religion. I have seen over and over again: students who find their faith precisely because they were given the space to be critical of it. When I teach sexual ethics, I cover official church views but I also look at voices critical of it. When I asked Cardinal McCarrick whether I could do so and still have the Church’s “mandatum,” he answered without pause, “Yes.” This is not just academically necessary, it also allows a deeper, more stable (because more tested) faith commitment. Pelvic Theology My fear is that these tensions are driven almost exclusively by what one Jesuit calls “pelvic theology”, a theology that centers on issues in the pelvic region (abortion, homosexuality, contraceptives). Catholicism is a great intellectual and spiritual tradition, one that gave us Dante, Fra Angelico, Bach, Baroque architecture, etc. with all its sacramental instinct expressed so wonderfully in Irenaeus’ “Glory of God is man fully alive”, Ignatius’ “finding God in all things,” or Gerard Manley Hopkins “The world is charged with grandeur of God.” To see it reduced in the public eye to concerns for keeping gays celibate and birth control pills away from women is painful for many devout Catholics who love the beauty and richness of this wonderful tradition. There’s much more to being a Catholic university than saying “no” to certain expressions relating to Pelvic Theology (e.g., Vagina Monologues, LGTBQ center, etc.). Producing Catholic leaders? Here’s what the national vocation promoter of the Society of Jesus, has said: “I can also tell you that Georgetown is the ONLY institution that we have (of our 28 colleges and Universities and 65 high schools) that has produced AT LEAST one vocation every year for the past 50 years.” Also: Georgetown has been a leading producer of graduates in service organizations like, Teach for America, JVC, Peace Corps, etc. The Bad I don’t want to sell the concerns short. The academy is by instinct left-leaning and critical of conventional wisdom, and thus there will always be a need to challenge it to include more conservative voices. Also, I think Georgetown could do a better job in engaging the full beauty and richness of the Catholic tradition (or at least, giving students more opportunities to explore it). My ‘push’ would not be on the “no” side (excluding this or that conversation) but on the “yes” side (e.g., include more studies of contemporary Catholic figures and novelists, liturgical reflections, retreats [really looking forward to the building of the new retreat center], science and religion, etc.). The Good At the same time, I believe there is something almost magical about what we have accomplished at Georgetown. A place where all the greatness of a secular academy can be found, with its penchant toward relentless deconstruction and restlessly critical investigation of received wisdom, and yet a humble recognition of something greater and the mystery of human existence, of the eternal questions that confront the human condition, of the inadequacy of narrow reason to answer the aspirations for destiny and meaning. And through all that humble and humbling exploration, a constant engagement with a tradition that believes it has found life-giving answers. Catholic university: I haven’t answered what I think a Catholic/Jesuit university is, but such a university, in my mind, centers on the ‘good’ of this last paragraph: a formation of students who are capable of and eager for a critical and humble reflection on the great issues of human existence in dialogical engagement with the full richness of the Catholic intellectual tradition. Thank you for adding to the discussion. As a liberal, Catholic turned Episcopal I find that although I tend to agree with criticism from the left, I am troubled by how this feels. I can see how our more "orthodox" fellow Hoyas can feel betrayed. I almost don't feel like I have any right to chime in anymore, but I feel encouraged by CWS's reply. I guess I would hope that it is ok to engage in thoughtful, spiritual and prayerful discussions about our human condition especially when we disagree. Yes, abortion would be an absolute like murder. Less distinct is the line between hormonal contraception and abortion. Gender and sexuality seem to leave some room. What if an invited speaker publicly advocated for female priests? Would that be a betrayal to Catholic teaching? (Would that be a slippery strawman argument? )
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CWS
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Post by CWS on May 21, 2012 9:49:24 GMT -5
Is that it, a blurb on the University website? My question is/was whether it is a Jesuit institution in name only, or in its deeds and actions? I created the below material for a different context. I'll post it here; the language might be off, since it was written for a different purpose. Serving Ad Extra: Bringing Catholic/Religious Voices to Conversations One of Georgetown’s important contributions to the academy is to bring a Catholic perspective to academic conversations and address concerns that are distinctively religious. This kind of engagement has been a hallmark of Georgetown’s Berkley Center for Religion, Politics, Peace and World Affairs ( berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/) which provides a platform for voices like Katherine Marshall in her work on religion and global development (see, for example, her reflections on faith and immigration; berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/blogs/faith-in-action/posts/immigration-reform-the-view-from-the-faith-side) and José Casanova in his scholarship on post-secularism. Georgetown’s Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding is recognized as one of the most important centers for Muslim-Christian dialogue in the world. Encouraged by Decree 5 (stressing importance of inter-religious dialogue in the work of the Society of Jesus) of the 34th General Congregation (international gathering of Jesuits), Georgetown has built on this strength to undertake other initiatives. For example, since 2002, Georgetown has sponsored and will now host the Building Bridges Seminar, dedicated to bringing together Muslim and Christian perspectives ( www.georgetown.edu/news/georgetown-to-lead-christian-and-muslim-scholars-seminar.html) ; its ‘Nostra Aetate’ Lecture Series examines questions of interreligious understanding; Georgetown sponsored the International Prayer for Peace in 2006 ( berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/publications/international-prayer-for-peace ); and in the summer of 2011, Georgetown sponsored an interfaith training conference ( berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/resources/topics/interreligious-dialogue/subtopics/interfaith-dialogue-on-campus) . Georgetown’s new campus in Qatar promises to further deepen its engagement in interreligious dialogue. Other conferences highlighting religious concerns include the symposium, Religion in American Politics and Society: A Model for Other Countries? ( www.georgetown.edu/content/1242668486013.html; with its keynote address by Archbishop Charles Chaput); and a conference which Georgetown co-sponsored with the Ronald Reagan Foundation looked at Vatican diplomacy ( www.georgetown.edu/story/vatican-diplomacy-symposium.html). Serving Ad Intra: Forming StudentsGeorgetown aspires to an educational experience embodying the best of Jesuit pedagogy. Like most Jesuit colleges and universities in the U.S., Georgetown students deeply engage both philosophy and theology (requiring two courses for each). The Center for Social Justice sponsors community based learning options for its students, that encourages them to engage what Father General Kolvenbach called the “gritty reality of the world.” Georgetown is working to develop other programs that nurture students’ capacity for the kind of profound and deep reflection so important for Jesuit spirituality and pedagogy. Thus, the successful JYAN program ( berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/projects/junior-year-abroad-network) at the Berkley Center provides students who are studying abroad (almost 50% of our students do so) with an incentive and mechanism to reflect on some religion, politics and culture in their new host country. The Engelhard Project aims to connect students’ academic work with reflections on broad ‘wellness’ concerns. The new retreat center under construction will offer students a respite from frenetic lives so that they can reflect on their own spiritual journeys ( www.georgetown.edu/story/future-religious-retreat-center.html). Students already have a one-course ethics requirement, but Georgetown’s capital campaign has committed itself to transforming the requirement so that it becomes a Georgetown hallmark, in keeping with its extensive resources in the field of ethics (e.g., Kennedy Institute of Ethics, Center for Clinical Bioethics, Woodstock Theological Center). In addition, various forms of engagements with ethics appear in a number of undergraduate programs. The School of Foreign Service has started a program in "Religion, Ethics, and World Affairs;" Georgetown College offers a Program on Justice and Peace as a minor for students and just began a minor in "Education, Inquiry and Justice;" theology majors can concentrate in ethics; the School of Nursing and Health Studies has made a values-based approach a central feature of its program, and the McDonough School of Business identifies educating “ethically responsible” students as key to its undergraduate mission. The “Living and Learning Communities” sponsored by Georgetown offer another venue where ethics and formation concerns are important. It is, then, a greatly-valued honor for Georgetown that The Washington Monthly has repeatedly ranked it as one of the nation’s top universities for serving the common good. It goes without saying that nurturing the faith life of students is vital to a Jesuit education and much of this work is done through the Office of Campus Ministry, either directly or in collaboration with other campus units (e.g., Student Affairs and Residential Life). In line with the identity of the university and the needs of Georgetown’s student population, resources for Catholic students are extensive, with opportunities for faith renewal, retreats , and student fellowship. The chaplains in residence program provides ministerial support for students in the residence halls. Georgetown has recognized the importance of making these opportunities available for as many students as possible. It has endeavored to develop programs and to partner with sending schools in order to expand the opportunities for students from underperforming schools. The Community Scholars Program has worked to smooth the transition for first-generation students. Georgetown has partnered with Cristo Rey Schools and KIPP Schools (Knowledge as Power Program) to produce a pipeline for talented students from difficult socio-economic backgrounds. Georgetown has been so successful with this endeavor, that it was recently honored by the Cristo Rey Network. Georgetown’s Meyers Institute endeavors to give local students from broken DC schools the confidence and background needed for successful transition to college. Georgetown is one of the three Jesuit schools in the nation committed to need blind admission and full need met. Georgetown’s formative endeavors are made easier by the kind of students Georgetown attracts. Bright, confident, and poised, Georgetown students regularly become involved in social outreach and take on positions of leadership (for example, STAND and AMF were both started by Georgetown undergraduates). The Knights of Columbus chapter was recently named best in the country. The Cardinal O'Connor Conference on Life, one of the largest student-run pro-life conferences in the nation, is organized by Georgetown students. The MBA Net Impact chapter recently received a ‘gold status’ award for its work in social responsibility. The fruit of Georgetown educational work can be seen in the students it graduates. A number of Georgetown graduates become Fulbright awardees. Georgetown is one of the biggest contributors to Teach for America and the Peace Corps, something celebrated by Georgetown at graduation. The Jesuit community is particularly proud of the fact that few Jesuit institutions have produced as many Jesuit vocations as Georgetown University. The Jesuit community continues to sponsor a vibrant discernment group. Georgetown’s Catholic, Jesuit IdentityGeorgetown’s Catholic, Jesuit identity can continue to flourish only if the institution commits itself to continually renew it. The Office of President and the Office of Mission and Ministry have been particularly important in nurturing this identity. When Dr. John J. DeGioia became Georgetown’s first lay president, he addressed this concern: The question before us-- now and always-- is how we live our mission and identity. I believe that framing this question is one of the deepest and most important exercises we could ever undertake. Because when we frame this question we are really asking ourselves, what is the nature of this tradition of learning, faith and freedom that we willingly and knowingly place ourselves within? “ Engaging the Tensions, Living the Questions” Inaugural Address, Oct. 13, 2001 ( www.georgetown.edu/content/1242662840829.html) He has undertaken a number of initiatives, many of them noted above, in order to renew and amplify Georgetown’s Catholic and Jesuit identity. Among others, the president’s office produced a well-received documentary on the life of Pedro Arrupe, SJ ( www.georgetown.edu/content/1242663360600.html). DeGioia makes an annual pilgrimage to Rome in order to meet with both Vatican and Jesuit leadership in Catholic higher education. In 2007, he brought the entire Board of Directors to Rome where it was addressed by Fr. Kolvenbach, SJ on the four attributes of Jesuit higher education, and in 2011 brought the university’s chapel choir to perform for Pope Benedict. Partly because of his leadership in Jesuit higher education, DeGioia was chosen to represent North American Jesuit schools at the conference on Jesuit higher education in Mexico City and addressed that international gathering with his reflections on the "Regional Challenges Jesuit Higher Education Faces in North America" ( www.uia.mx/shapingthefuture/files/3-Topics-Regional/Reg-Challenges-DeGioia-US.pdf). The Office of Mission and Ministry also sponsors a variety of programs some in conjunction with the president’s office; many are aimed at introducing faculty and staff to Ignatian spirituality and the character of a Jesuit institution ( missionandministry.georgetown.edu/programs.html ). The Nineteenth Annotated Retreat (for faculty and staff) has been particularly successful as demand has sometimes outstripped resources. Nine key Jesuit themes become visible twice a year on handsome and prominent banners hung around campus ( missionandministry.georgetown.edu/spiritofgeorgetown.html). The Jesuit CommunityThe Jesuit community has also been involved in supporting these endeavors, and, of course, the normal on-going sacramental ministries. Jesuits serve in a variety of ways, teaching courses, doing research, helping out on retreats, working as chaplains ( college.georgetown.edu/135041.html#newsitem-video). The community also engages in corporate ministry, for example in hosting receptions for various groups at its main home in Wolfington Hall. Recently, in order to contribute to campus conversations about revising the curriculum, it produced a document reflecting on the characteristics of a Jesuit education at Georgetown ( blog.georgetownvoice.com/2010/05/06/georgetown-jesuits-plan-for-a-distinctive-education). The document was developed, in part, in response to a real desire among faculty and staff to hear Jesuit views on the issues confronting Georgetown.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on May 21, 2012 21:02:39 GMT -5
Some great concerns/questions in the above. Some of my own thoughts: All Catholic students are the same? I don’t think there’s not one way of being a Catholic university. A Catholic university, like all Catholic institutions, should serve the Gospel in some way. But given that there are different types of students, I like to think of all Catholic universities as part of one project to educate and serve the Gospel, but in different ways. They HAVE to be different, because what works for one student is not going to work for another. To underscore what others have hinted at: if we became the kind of Catholic university some want us to be, we would lose the students we have now (and faculty). And where do those students who would have gone to Georgetown go? NYU? Duke? Virginia? Places where religion in general and Catholicism in particular are not taken as seriously. Students love Problem of God because it helps them become more educated, thoughtful about religion in general and forces them to think about issues that every thoughtful person should consider but often never do (e.g., meaning of life, destiny, purpose, etc.). Repeat it enough times, and they’ll believe it? There is an assumption sometimes among conservatives that if we just keep repeating the right answers, students will believe it. Not only will that not work for many Georgetown students, it pushes them away from religion. I have seen over and over again: students who find their faith precisely because they were given the space to be critical of it. When I teach sexual ethics, I cover official church views but I also look at voices critical of it. When I asked Cardinal McCarrick whether I could do so and still have the Church’s “mandatum,” he answered without pause, “Yes.” This is not just academically necessary, it also allows a deeper, more stable (because more tested) faith commitment. Pelvic Theology My fear is that these tensions are driven almost exclusively by what one Jesuit calls “pelvic theology”, a theology that centers on issues in the pelvic region (abortion, homosexuality, contraceptives). Catholicism is a great intellectual and spiritual tradition, one that gave us Dante, Fra Angelico, Bach, Baroque architecture, etc. with all its sacramental instinct expressed so wonderfully in Irenaeus’ “Glory of God is man fully alive”, Ignatius’ “finding God in all things,” or Gerard Manley Hopkins “The world is charged with grandeur of God.” To see it reduced in the public eye to concerns for keeping gays celibate and birth control pills away from women is painful for many devout Catholics who love the beauty and richness of this wonderful tradition. There’s much more to being a Catholic university than saying “no” to certain expressions relating to Pelvic Theology (e.g., Vagina Monologues, LGTBQ center, etc.). Producing Catholic leaders? Here’s what the national vocation promoter of the Society of Jesus, has said: “I can also tell you that Georgetown is the ONLY institution that we have (of our 28 colleges and Universities and 65 high schools) that has produced AT LEAST one vocation every year for the past 50 years.” Also: Georgetown has been a leading producer of graduates in service organizations like, Teach for America, JVC, Peace Corps, etc. The Bad I don’t want to sell the concerns short. The academy is by instinct left-leaning and critical of conventional wisdom, and thus there will always be a need to challenge it to include more conservative voices. Also, I think Georgetown could do a better job in engaging the full beauty and richness of the Catholic tradition (or at least, giving students more opportunities to explore it). My ‘push’ would not be on the “no” side (excluding this or that conversation) but on the “yes” side (e.g., include more studies of contemporary Catholic figures and novelists, liturgical reflections, retreats [really looking forward to the building of the new retreat center], science and religion, etc.). The Good At the same time, I believe there is something almost magical about what we have accomplished at Georgetown. A place where all the greatness of a secular academy can be found, with its penchant toward relentless deconstruction and restlessly critical investigation of received wisdom, and yet a humble recognition of something greater and the mystery of human existence, of the eternal questions that confront the human condition, of the inadequacy of narrow reason to answer the aspirations for destiny and meaning. And through all that humble and humbling exploration, a constant engagement with a tradition that believes it has found life-giving answers. Catholic university: I haven’t answered what I think a Catholic/Jesuit university is, but such a university, in my mind, centers on the ‘good’ of this last paragraph: a formation of students who are capable of and eager for a critical and humble reflection on the great issues of human existence in dialogical engagement with the full richness of the Catholic intellectual tradition. I have a question about your "adding more to the 'yes' side" point. When I was at Georgetown, the Theology department offered a class called "Intro to Catholic Theology." As I remember it, purportedly introductory class was only available to seniors, and only taught in the spring. Is there really that little interest among the student body in such a class that it is offered to only 25 or so students per graduating class? I can understand that people wouldn't want to sit through a catechism class that would consist of "this is what the Church says and why it is true," but I think a "this is what the Church says, and let's talk about it" class would be pretty valuable. I imagine something like a Problem of God, but more focused on the Catholic tradition specifically. I think it would be especially worthwhile in an era when, as you said, so many want to reduce Church teachings to "pelvic theology." Of course, the answer may be "we used to have that, people didn't sign up."
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CWS
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 272
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Post by CWS on May 21, 2012 21:33:30 GMT -5
Some great concerns/questions in the above. Some of my own thoughts: All Catholic students are the same? I don’t think there’s not one way of being a Catholic university. A Catholic university, like all Catholic institutions, should serve the Gospel in some way. But given that there are different types of students, I like to think of all Catholic universities as part of one project to educate and serve the Gospel, but in different ways. They HAVE to be different, because what works for one student is not going to work for another. To underscore what others have hinted at: if we became the kind of Catholic university some want us to be, we would lose the students we have now (and faculty). And where do those students who would have gone to Georgetown go? NYU? Duke? Virginia? Places where religion in general and Catholicism in particular are not taken as seriously. Students love Problem of God because it helps them become more educated, thoughtful about religion in general and forces them to think about issues that every thoughtful person should consider but often never do (e.g., meaning of life, destiny, purpose, etc.). Repeat it enough times, and they’ll believe it? There is an assumption sometimes among conservatives that if we just keep repeating the right answers, students will believe it. Not only will that not work for many Georgetown students, it pushes them away from religion. I have seen over and over again: students who find their faith precisely because they were given the space to be critical of it. When I teach sexual ethics, I cover official church views but I also look at voices critical of it. When I asked Cardinal McCarrick whether I could do so and still have the Church’s “mandatum,” he answered without pause, “Yes.” This is not just academically necessary, it also allows a deeper, more stable (because more tested) faith commitment. Pelvic Theology My fear is that these tensions are driven almost exclusively by what one Jesuit calls “pelvic theology”, a theology that centers on issues in the pelvic region (abortion, homosexuality, contraceptives). Catholicism is a great intellectual and spiritual tradition, one that gave us Dante, Fra Angelico, Bach, Baroque architecture, etc. with all its sacramental instinct expressed so wonderfully in Irenaeus’ “Glory of God is man fully alive”, Ignatius’ “finding God in all things,” or Gerard Manley Hopkins “The world is charged with grandeur of God.” To see it reduced in the public eye to concerns for keeping gays celibate and birth control pills away from women is painful for many devout Catholics who love the beauty and richness of this wonderful tradition. There’s much more to being a Catholic university than saying “no” to certain expressions relating to Pelvic Theology (e.g., Vagina Monologues, LGTBQ center, etc.). Producing Catholic leaders? Here’s what the national vocation promoter of the Society of Jesus, has said: “I can also tell you that Georgetown is the ONLY institution that we have (of our 28 colleges and Universities and 65 high schools) that has produced AT LEAST one vocation every year for the past 50 years.” Also: Georgetown has been a leading producer of graduates in service organizations like, Teach for America, JVC, Peace Corps, etc. The Bad I don’t want to sell the concerns short. The academy is by instinct left-leaning and critical of conventional wisdom, and thus there will always be a need to challenge it to include more conservative voices. Also, I think Georgetown could do a better job in engaging the full beauty and richness of the Catholic tradition (or at least, giving students more opportunities to explore it). My ‘push’ would not be on the “no” side (excluding this or that conversation) but on the “yes” side (e.g., include more studies of contemporary Catholic figures and novelists, liturgical reflections, retreats [really looking forward to the building of the new retreat center], science and religion, etc.). The Good At the same time, I believe there is something almost magical about what we have accomplished at Georgetown. A place where all the greatness of a secular academy can be found, with its penchant toward relentless deconstruction and restlessly critical investigation of received wisdom, and yet a humble recognition of something greater and the mystery of human existence, of the eternal questions that confront the human condition, of the inadequacy of narrow reason to answer the aspirations for destiny and meaning. And through all that humble and humbling exploration, a constant engagement with a tradition that believes it has found life-giving answers. Catholic university: I haven’t answered what I think a Catholic/Jesuit university is, but such a university, in my mind, centers on the ‘good’ of this last paragraph: a formation of students who are capable of and eager for a critical and humble reflection on the great issues of human existence in dialogical engagement with the full richness of the Catholic intellectual tradition. I have a question about your "adding more to the 'yes' side" point. When I was at Georgetown, the Theology department offered a class called "Intro to Catholic Theology." As I remember it, purportedly introductory class was only available to seniors, and only taught in the spring. Is there really that little interest among the student body in such a class that it is offered to only 25 or so students per graduating class? I can understand that people wouldn't want to sit through a catechism class that would consist of "this is what the Church says and why it is true," but I think a "this is what the Church says, and let's talk about it" class would be pretty valuable. I imagine something like a Problem of God, but more focused on the Catholic tradition specifically. I think it would be especially worthwhile in an era when, as you said, so many want to reduce Church teachings to "pelvic theology." Of course, the answer may be "we used to have that, people didn't sign up." I think that's Fr. Hentz' class. It was/is limited to seniors because so many people wanted to take it, and he could fill up the course with just seniors. There are other courses like that, but I wish we had more of the basics (with sophistication) of Catholic theology.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on May 21, 2012 23:32:41 GMT -5
I have a question about your "adding more to the 'yes' side" point. When I was at Georgetown, the Theology department offered a class called "Intro to Catholic Theology." As I remember it, purportedly introductory class was only available to seniors, and only taught in the spring. Is there really that little interest among the student body in such a class that it is offered to only 25 or so students per graduating class? I can understand that people wouldn't want to sit through a catechism class that would consist of "this is what the Church says and why it is true," but I think a "this is what the Church says, and let's talk about it" class would be pretty valuable. I imagine something like a Problem of God, but more focused on the Catholic tradition specifically. I think it would be especially worthwhile in an era when, as you said, so many want to reduce Church teachings to "pelvic theology." Of course, the answer may be "we used to have that, people didn't sign up." I think that's Fr. Hentz' class. It was/is limited to seniors because so many people wanted to take it, and he could fill up the course with just seniors. There are other courses like that, but I wish we had more of the basics (with sophistication) of Catholic theology. This seems like the answer--there needs to be more classes available about Catholicism in the Theology department. Most students are going to take two Theology classes (or whatever their requirement is). I know I did, and I know I got them out of the way freshman/sophomore year. I also know that I didn't take a theology course with a Jesuit (I took Problem of God, which didn't touch on Catholicism that much, and Intro to Bib Lit which was mainly about not taking the Bible literally. I didn't get anything on Catholicism out of them, even though that was why I took Bib Lit) It seems like the best (and easiest) way for Georgetown to increase its Catholic identity is to increase the class offerings that are about Catholicism. What's the point of the theology requirement if the only way to take a class on Catholicism is as a senior and only if you are able to get in (something that seems likely to be hard for non-Theology majors and which forces seniors to choose b/w other class priorities such as seminars in their majors and the one Catholic class).
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on May 22, 2012 9:30:50 GMT -5
EasyED the definition of the Catholic Education at Georgetown has not really changed in the 40 pus years since I first entered. It was subtley promoted to many at the time as freshman with required reading of Cardinal Newmans Idea of A University which to me still stands today as a blue print for what Georgetown should be about.
“Though they cannot pursue every subject which is open to them, they will be gainers by living among those and under those who represent the whole circle. This I conceive to be the advantage of the seat of universal learning,”
Has Georgetown strayed from a Jesuit Identity i think that argument can be made but hen again I've always had a problem with Iganatius in his Rule of Thinking.
"That we may be altogether of the same mind and in conformity if the Church shall have defined anything to be black which to our eyes appears to be white, we ought in like manner to pronounce it to be black"
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