HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on May 8, 2012 17:53:37 GMT -5
If I was able to sit and listen to this drivel from Cardinal Arinze in 2003 www.wf-f.org/Arinze-Georgetown.html AND watch him get an honorary degree afterwards, then the detractors here should be able to put up with a speech by the current Secretary of Health and Human Services - even if you disagree with her views on abortion and contraception. Its funny, when I was at Georgetown I learned that a Jesuit education was about educating the whole person, which meant understanding opposing viewpoints as well. I guess some here missed that part of the lesson.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on May 8, 2012 18:20:38 GMT -5
What's a GPPI?
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CWS
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Post by CWS on May 8, 2012 21:53:41 GMT -5
If you're going to invite someone, you should give them an honorary degree. Speakers at the tropaia ceremonies & other non-degree granting ceremonies never get honorary degrees, do they? And it was the students who invited her not the university per se. I don't think speakers at the senior convocation have received honorary doctorates in the past, but maybe I'm misremembering.
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TC
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Post by TC on May 8, 2012 23:25:39 GMT -5
Speakers at the tropaia ceremonies & other non-degree granting ceremonies never get honorary degrees, do they? And it was the students who invited her not the university per se. I don't think speakers at the senior convocation have received honorary doctorates in the past, but maybe I'm misremembering. Yeah, you cut the part where I said that I understood why Freeh and Sebelius aren't getting them under the circumstance (they're not graduation speakers). In cases like ASU and ND, where Obama was the convocation speaker, not giving out the degree is just bogus. The PR statement that you quoted - was there anything more to it? Did it have anything in it defending Sebelius in there? Because the thing read like it was just dumping on the Tropaia to make it seem unimportant so that people wouldn't be upset.
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CWS
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Post by CWS on May 9, 2012 7:45:41 GMT -5
Speakers at the tropaia ceremonies & other non-degree granting ceremonies never get honorary degrees, do they? And it was the students who invited her not the university per se. I don't think speakers at the senior convocation have received honorary doctorates in the past, but maybe I'm misremembering. Yeah, you cut the part where I said that I understood why Freeh and Sebelius aren't getting them under the circumstance (they're not graduation speakers). In cases like ASU and ND, where Obama was the convocation speaker, not giving out the degree is just bogus. The PR statement that you quoted - was there anything more to it? Did it have anything in it defending Sebelius in there? Because the thing read like it was just dumping on the Tropaia to make it seem unimportant so that people wouldn't be upset. Notre Dame did give Obama an honorary degree, of course. Notre Dame always invites the incoming president, if I remember correctly. But (also if I remember correctly), they haven't always given him an honorary doctorate, fueling the controversy about why Obama had to get one (since, the argument went, it hasn't been automatic in the past). I think you're right that they wanted to downplay the significance of Sebelius' address, but I don't think that fact takes away from the genuineness of the statement. The fact is Sebelius' address is not as significant as that of the commencement speakers. The context they gave was accurate and would be important for some potential critics (i.e., it's not at a commencement, degree-giving ceremony & the invite was initiated by student vote), and relaying that information strikes me as an appropriate response for providing context for concerned parties. I know it has made a difference for some who have approached me. The statement on the website provides the 'defense' for Sebelius (i.e., what merits she had for such an invitation: her work for expanding health care access). The additional info was supplemental to the original announcement.
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Post by Frank Black on May 11, 2012 6:09:42 GMT -5
Some issues are complex; others mercifully are not. Inviting Kathleen Sebelius, an individual at the center of an overtly anti-Catholic mandate which forces Catholic institutions to violate the fundamental tenets of their faith, is unconscionable. It is tone-deaf to the Secretary's assault on religious freedom but alas is utterly consistent with Georgetown's historic indifference to its affiliation with the Church.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on May 11, 2012 9:21:58 GMT -5
Some issues are complex; others mercifully are not. Inviting Kathleen Sebelius, an individual at the center of an overtly anti-Catholic mandate which forces Catholic institutions to violate the fundamental tenets of their faith, is unconscionable. It is tone-deaf to the Secretary's assault on religious freedom but alas is utterly consistent with Georgetown's historic indifference to its affiliation with the Church. Insofar as Sebelius is a Catholic herself, I think she might dispute the notion that it is "an overtly anti-Catholic mandate." In any case, insofar as Georgetown already offers insurance plans to its employees that include coverage for contraception, it is not being forced to do anything that it's not already doing.
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Post by Problem of Dog on May 11, 2012 11:09:00 GMT -5
Some issues are complex; others mercifully are not. Inviting Kathleen Sebelius, an individual at the center of an overtly anti-Catholic mandate which forces Catholic institutions to violate the fundamental tenets of their faith, is unconscionable. It is tone-deaf to the Secretary's assault on religious freedom but alas is utterly consistent with Georgetown's historic indifference to its affiliation with the Church. Insofar as Sebelius is a Catholic herself, I think she might dispute the notion that it is "an overtly anti-Catholic mandate." In any case, insofar as Georgetown already offers insurance plans to its employees that include coverage for contraception, it is not being forced to do anything that it's not already doing. Exactly. It's not an issue of conscience, it's an issue of convenience. The people who argue "if they wanted contraceptive coverage, they should've chose another school" are making the exact point that should be made. NO ONE chooses a college or graduate school based on the health plan. However, many employees do choose their place of employment based on the health plan and the benefits offered. So why is Georgetown offering this coverage for employees and not students? Because if they weren't offering it for employees, they know that it might dissuade prospective employees. No one's saying it would be a large portion, but it would impact Georgetown's ability to hire, whereas, until it became so widely publicized, the health plan has not affected Georgetown's ability to recruit students.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 12, 2012 19:10:49 GMT -5
Frank Black is right on.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on May 12, 2012 19:24:45 GMT -5
Insofar as Sebelius is a Catholic herself, I think she might dispute the notion that it is "an overtly anti-Catholic mandate." In any case, insofar as Georgetown already offers insurance plans to its employees that include coverage for contraception, it is not being forced to do anything that it's not already doing. Exactly. It's not an issue of conscience, it's an issue of convenience. The people who argue "if they wanted contraceptive coverage, they should've chose another school" are making the exact point that should be made. NO ONE chooses a college or graduate school based on the health plan. However, many employees do choose their place of employment based on the health plan and the benefits offered. So why is Georgetown offering this coverage for employees and not students? Because if they weren't offering it for employees, they know that it might dissuade prospective employees. No one's saying it would be a large portion, but it would impact Georgetown's ability to hire, whereas, until it became so widely publicized, the health plan has not affected Georgetown's ability to recruit students. No one is arguing that Georgetown (or any institution) should be able to provide contraceptives to its employees but not to its students (or any division of female employees an employer might have). If you're providing it to one group of females that get insurance through you, you obviously don't have a religious reason not to provide it to the other. In other words, don't make the mistake of assuming every other Catholic institution is like Georgetown. Some of them are run in a competent manner consistent with Catholic principles.
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Post by Problem of Dog on May 12, 2012 20:51:17 GMT -5
But that is the exact argument many have made with regards to this controversy at Georgetown, including some on this board.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 12, 2012 23:15:30 GMT -5
But that is the exact argument many have made with regards to this controversy at Georgetown, including some on this board. Who has made that argument on this board ?
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hoyaLS05
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Post by hoyaLS05 on May 14, 2012 20:12:57 GMT -5
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on May 15, 2012 8:10:04 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing. I think this May 14th statement is a much more articulate explanation of the University's rationale and present position than the Express-worthy "Q&A" that was released earlier. Do we still have Dr. Porterfield on call for responding to emergency PR issues like this?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 16, 2012 10:24:48 GMT -5
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CWS
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Post by CWS on May 16, 2012 21:02:07 GMT -5
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 17, 2012 10:14:42 GMT -5
Situations like this could be avoided in the future if Georgetown University would publicly say it is no longer a Catholic university. Honesty is one of the things that should be taught in any college.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 17, 2012 10:21:54 GMT -5
I think's there's a distinction (missed by the Post) between a university and a Catholic university. I'm not a Catholic, but if Georgetown is going to hold itself out as America's Oldest Catholic University, then it should act like it.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on May 17, 2012 10:39:21 GMT -5
I think's there's a distinction (missed by the Post) between a university and a Catholic university. I'm not a Catholic, but if Georgetown is going to hold itself out as America's Oldest Catholic University, then it should act like it. Looking at it from the other angle, the Post also would have benefited from contemplating the distinction highlighted by Fr. Schall, between the university's academic role in cultivating intellectual discourse and its Catholic role in "honoring" a speaker during commencement weekend: www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-is-an-qhonoraryq-award.html
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TC
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Post by TC on May 17, 2012 12:30:04 GMT -5
I agree with Father Schall taking the University to task for that crazy press release that just dumped on Tropaia to try to minimize the controversy.
Disagree on two points :
No way. She won't mention that decision. People in this circumstance go to these things to build bridges and talk about working together despite differences.
I think Father Schall should take a look at his choices in employee health plans before defining what the University stands for. "Stands for" means a position or opinion one is prepared to uphold - which is in direct opposition to what Georgetown's employee health plan choices show us.
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