DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 18, 2012 12:51:11 GMT -5
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 18, 2012 13:19:54 GMT -5
please do
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 18, 2012 14:21:20 GMT -5
Seriously would be a huge opportunity for the school, but one tends to think that we will not take advantage.
Sounds like there's already a baseball diamond. Could it also be a good location for a Basketball facility? Right of the beltway would make it easy for commuters. Looks like it's a 10 minute drive from the Silver Spring Metro stop, which would make it easy to shuttle people to and from.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Apr 18, 2012 15:04:39 GMT -5
HAHA someone is commenting under the name Rayful Edmond on that site, i like it.
anyway...What would be the best use of this space for Gtown?
Using the baseball facilities could be good, but I dont know if it would actually help the baseball team in terms of recruiting or popularity. What is there situation currently? Are they still sharing the Big Train Stadium?
Can't see putting undergraduates there, so which graduate programs would be best to relocate? Or create new ones? A suburban location would seem to be best for people with families or who are not looking for a second college experience.
Also I can hear it now, after gtown buys the property (hopefully), the ANC asking why Gtown cant house all the students there and just bus them back and forth (but not through the neighborhood of course)
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Apr 18, 2012 23:27:58 GMT -5
If Georgetown were to buy this land, what's the possibility of eventually (way down the road) moving the hospital to a site like this one?
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Apr 19, 2012 0:34:00 GMT -5
I just don't think this land would make any strategic sense. Its too far away for any undergraduate use, including athletics (at least, its not much closer than our baseball situation now so what difference would it make). The University has made it pretty clear that it wants to try to grow its SCS and graduate programs, and it seems like its aiming towards a downtown consolidation (I know they are looking at spaces near the law center). I think this makes the most sense, all things considered. Alternatively, any way we can convince GW to trade its MV campus for the "greener pastures" of Silver Spring so that we can take over that beautiful little campus just up the road from main campus?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 19, 2012 6:51:33 GMT -5
I grew up 2 miles from the National Labor College. It used to be Xaverian College run by the Xaverian Brothers until 1974 when it was sold to the AFL-CIO and was the George Meany Center for Labor Studies, now NLC. LizziebethHoya is correct -- this location makes it useless for Georgetown. We lost our opportunity when the decision was made not to purchase the MV College campus. Who can explain the history of that misguided decision?
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Apr 19, 2012 9:32:35 GMT -5
I grew up 2 miles from the National Labor College. It used to be Xaverian College run by the Xaverian Brothers until 1974 when it was sold to the AFL-CIO and was the George Meany Center for Labor Studies, now NLC. LizziebethHoya is correct -- this location makes it useless for Georgetown. We lost our opportunity when the decision was made not to purchase the MV College campus. Who can explain the history of that misguided decision? DFW provided some background the last time we discussed a GGW proposal to relocate GU to the other side of the moon metro area. As reported elsewhere, MVC was failing and received a loan (variously reported from $4.5-$6.5 million) from Georgetown to keep it afloat. O'Donovan chose not to restrict the note, figuring this was a sign of bad faith in a fellow college's ability to meet its obligations. Joel Trachtenberg at GW heard about this, promptly loaned MVC the money to pay off the amount, and promised a partnership with the school. MVC paid off Georgetown. Then GW foreclosed on MVC and closed the 25 acre school. hoyatalk2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bluegray&action=display&thread=24634There's a little more color here, more focused on GW's bad faith than GU's ineptitude, which is amply documented in a few places: irascibleprofessor.com/comments-3-26-01.htm
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 19, 2012 11:26:12 GMT -5
I just don't think this land would make any strategic sense. Its too far away for any undergraduate use, including athletics (at least, its not much closer than our baseball situation now so what difference would it make). The University has made it pretty clear that it wants to try to grow its SCS and graduate programs, and it seems like its aiming towards a downtown consolidation (I know they are looking at spaces near the law center). I think this makes the most sense, all things considered. Alternatively, any way we can convince GW to trade its MV campus for the "greener pastures" of Silver Spring so that we can take over that beautiful little campus just up the road from main campus? I mean, we used to play basketball at the Cap Center, 15 miles away from campus, so I don't know that a site that is 11 miles away would necessarily be excluded. Baseball's not moving back onto the Hilltop anytime soon, so the difference would be in having a University-owned and operated facility and accompanying structures, rather than having to be one of multiple tenants at Povich Field. It is true, though, that it's hard to envision what academic programs would be a good fit for that location. The Continuing Studies programs being moved to "Georgetown Downtown" probably will eventually end up at the new Capital Crossing development or something similar. A new, largely autonomous unit would be the best bet - a School of Education, say - but there's nothing like that on the radar. It could be used as administrative space, I suppose, in the same way that GW has been moving support offices out to Ashburn.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 19, 2012 12:07:47 GMT -5
Land is land--it doeesn't matter what fits in 2012 because this is a 25 year, a 50 year decision. 47 acres (half the size of the main campus minus the hospital) offer opportunities, something the current footprint does not.
Maybe someone sees the 47 acres as a home for the graduate school, others as the means to house undergraduates should the 100% housing demand sees the legal light of day. Maybe it's the site of the next generation hospital, or maybe a home for baseball, track, tennis, softball, et al. Whatever it is, it's an option that should not easily be passed over. You're not going to see 47 acres inside the Beltway enter the open market anytime soon.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Apr 19, 2012 13:42:55 GMT -5
Land is land--it doeesn't matter what fits in 2012 because this is a 25 year, a 50 year decision. 47 acres (half the size of the main campus minus the hospital) offer opportunities, something the current footprint does not. Maybe someone sees the 47 acres as a home for the graduate school, others as the means to house undergraduates should the 100% housing demand sees the legal light of day. Maybe it's the site of the next generation hospital, or maybe a home for baseball, track, tennis, softball, et al. Whatever it is, it's an option that should not easily be passed over. You're not going to see 47 acres inside the Beltway enter the open market anytime soon. I think this hits the nail on the head. Even if Gtown buys it and cant find a use the property still has value (rising value). At the very worst they could just sell the property in 10 years for a profit (though they would probably find some way to screw that up too)
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 19, 2012 14:18:21 GMT -5
I grew up 2 miles from the National Labor College. It used to be Xaverian College run by the Xaverian Brothers until 1974 when it was sold to the AFL-CIO and was the George Meany Center for Labor Studies, now NLC. LizziebethHoya is correct -- this location makes it useless for Georgetown. We lost our opportunity when the decision was made not to purchase the MV College campus. Who can explain the history of that misguided decision? DFW provided some background the last time we discussed a GGW proposal to relocate GU to the other side of the moon metro area. As reported elsewhere, MVC was failing and received a loan (variously reported from $4.5-$6.5 million) from Georgetown to keep it afloat. O'Donovan chose not to restrict the note, figuring this was a sign of bad faith in a fellow college's ability to meet its obligations. Joel Trachtenberg at GW heard about this, promptly loaned MVC the money to pay off the amount, and promised a partnership with the school. MVC paid off Georgetown. Then GW foreclosed on MVC and closed the 25 acre school. hoyatalk2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bluegray&action=display&thread=24634There's a little more color here, more focused on GW's bad faith than GU's ineptitude, which is amply documented in a few places: irascibleprofessor.com/comments-3-26-01.htmWorst. Decision. Ever. (and it's not even close).
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Apr 19, 2012 14:35:55 GMT -5
Unless they have a serious plan for academic uses of that property, its just not worth it.
If you put any undergrads there, you ruin the community feel of Georgetown. Plain and simple. All undergrads need to live, study, and play on or near main campus.
Any grad program that has any part-time students is out of the question, as most people work in downtown and won't make the trek to Silver Spring (even if you're right on the red line, its still a distance from the metro).
So really the only grad program left is the Medical School. Which needs to be attached to the Hospital. It's a definite possibility, but moving a hospital that far away has ramifications for the surrounding community.
Additionally, if you put enough sports teams there, I don't see how its going to help with recruiting. Student-athletes already don't have enough time already - if you add in 30 minute commutes to and from practice, enough may just say its not worth it. If its just places for games for sports such as baseball and field hockey, fine. But without a purpose for the rest of the property, I just don't see it happening.
Maybe the University can buy it as an investment and develop a new program to put there, but for now I don't see it tying its money up like that when it has more tangible, short-term development goals in downtown.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 22, 2012 14:18:38 GMT -5
The time to get from this side of the Beltway to Georgetown is prohibitive. I used to drive (I was a commuter student the first two years at GU) and in the early 1970s with less traffic, it was no picnic. Nowadays, it would take 1+ hours, easily. I can't imagine trying to get to/from this area if I were on a GU sports team for practice, especially after a school day. Rush hour on the Beltway seems to start at 3:30 nowadays, and continues well past 7, or at least that is my subjective impression. Moreover, I simply do not see GU as capable of buying and holding a piece of property as an investment. And this location is nowhere near a metro stop.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Apr 24, 2012 8:31:49 GMT -5
Honestly, as someone who laments the Mount Vernon (and before that the Cloisters) misses as much as anyone, this plot of land is not in the same league. It take about 40 minutes to drive to without traffic, and an hour plus with traffic, and it is not remotely close to any existing transit options. And the baseball field is further away (time-wise) than Shirley Povich field.
It would make sense to look for large plots of land east of the Anacostia River (which would probably be similar price-wise, and would likely be both closer to drive and closer to Orange or Blue line Metro stations).
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Apr 24, 2012 8:49:29 GMT -5
The only way it makes sense is if the entire medical campus, which need not be attached to main campus much like the Law center isn't, is moved there and it opens up that entire area to undergrad development. And yes I realize as I type this how pie in the sky that idea is with regards to massive costs we can't afford, logistical issues, etc.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Apr 24, 2012 10:25:20 GMT -5
The only way it makes sense is if the entire medical campus, which need not be attached to main campus much like the Law center isn't, is moved there and it opens up that entire area to undergrad development. And yes I realize as I type this how pie in the sky that idea is with regards to massive costs we can't afford, logistical issues, etc. My thoughts exactly, which is why I asked above whether it's conceivable that the Med Center could move to a site like this in the distant future. Combined, the hospital, medical school, and Kehoe/Yates make up over 1/3 of the school's campus (by my eyeball estimate): bit.ly/IEXExb Since Georgetown can't build up in DC, and can't replace current student housing with academic buildings due to the ANC, won't we have to talk about doing something with that part of campus in a few decades? It seems like it's either that or start building on Healy lawn. And hypothetically speaking, if Georgetown ever built an on-campus arena, that would mean even less land for new academic buildings. And sure, I'd like this better if land near a Metro stop and further inside the Beltway opened up, but you gotta take what you can get.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Apr 24, 2012 15:01:38 GMT -5
Honestly, as someone who laments the Mount Vernon (and before that the Cloisters) misses as much as anyone, this plot of land is not in the same league. It take about 40 minutes to drive to without traffic, and an hour plus with traffic, and it is not remotely close to any existing transit options. And the baseball field is further away (time-wise) than Shirley Povich field. It would make sense to look for large plots of land east of the Anacostia River (which would probably be similar price-wise, and would likely be both closer to drive and closer to Orange or Blue line Metro stations). Agreed on all counts. Plus, GUH taking the place of the old Southeast hospital could be a nice move for all involved.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 24, 2012 15:02:49 GMT -5
The only way it makes sense is if the entire medical campus, which need not be attached to main campus much like the Law center isn't, is moved there and it opens up that entire area to undergrad development. And yes I realize as I type this how pie in the sky that idea is with regards to massive costs we can't afford, logistical issues, etc. My thoughts exactly, which is why I asked above whether it's conceivable that the Med Center could move to a site like this in the distant future. Combined, the hospital, medical school, and Kehoe/Yates make up over 1/3 of the school's campus (by my eyeball estimate): maps.google.com/maps?q=georgetown+university+washington+dc&ll=38.909377,-77.074757&spn=0.006754,0.009645&fb=1&gl=us&hq=georgetown+university&hnear=0x89b7c6de5af6e45b:0xc2524522d4885d2a,Washington,+DC&cid=0,0,2061924074063800450&t=h&z=17 Since Georgetown can't build up in DC, and can't replace current student housing with academic buildings due to the ANC, won't we have to talk about doing something with that part of campus in a few decades? It seems like it's either that or start building on Healy lawn. And hypothetically speaking, if Georgetown ever built an on-campus arena, that would mean even less land for new academic buildings. And sure, I'd like this better if land near a Metro stop and further inside the Beltway opened up, but you gotta take what you can get. That's the plan, pretty much. I don't have it in front of me, but awhile back, Howard Federoff (head of the Medical Center) wrote a letter in which he basically said that Main Campus is out of room and the hospital and medical school will have to leave within the next three decades to make room for further Main Campus expansion. The conventional wisdom is also that MedStar is not fond of the GU Hospital site, which combines with drawbacks of an urban location (space limitations, intrusive regulation, busybody neighbors constraining growth, limited parking, high percentage of indigent patients) with the drawbacks of a suburban location (less than ideal mass transit, long commute times, paucity of entertainment and dining options in the immediate vicinity, etc) and few of the benefits of either. The assumption is that they would prefer to build a big Washington Hospital Center-like campus out in a field somewhere, like Inova did with their Fair Oaks site. The biggest challenge with managing such a transition would be the benefits of having the Med Center next door that the nursing school and pre-med undergrads now enjoy in terms of clinical and research experience. It does seem like there's no other choice in the end, though.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Apr 24, 2012 15:38:12 GMT -5
Pre-med and nursing are highly pre-professional in nature and I just don't think it is much of a challenge all things considered for that relatively small subset of necessarily mature students to occasionally have to travel (via GUTS I'm sure) to do clinical work, lab etc. I know it is easy for me to say as a College of Arts and Sciences guy, but there is way too much benefit in this idea for me to really call that much of a challenge. The biggest challenge is surely getting the capital to pull this off. Think SW Quad times 5 at a minimum.
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