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Post by professorhoya on Apr 30, 2012 13:16:07 GMT -5
I have no idea of what the SMU scholarship situation is, but couldn't Brown accomplish the same thing by recruiting over guys and just have them come to the realization they cannot play at SMU anymore? Isn't that how most big time programs operate? To actually come out and tell a kid - "you are not good enough to play for me, you can stay at the university just do not show up to workout tomorrow with your teammates" seems a bit too cold-blooded to me. Who wants to play in that type of professional atmosphere. Pros put up with that because they get paid, these kids are not being paid. Big time basketball or not, there are better ways to handle 18-22 year old amateurs than this example by Larry Brown. Enh, I guess its just a different way of seeing it. I think this is a really passive aggressive way of handling the situation. The more honest thing is to just tell the kid you arent going to play for me. Now they at least have a chance to transfer and keep a year of eligibility or stay at SMU and finish their degrees. And I believe that JTIII has done this before with kids (telling them they werent going to get to play) just didnt kick them off the team (believe this is why Josh Thronton transferred). If these kids were better at basketball wouldnt it follow that they would have just elected to transfer after this happened and we probably would only here "such and such is transferring"? Didn't Bennimon and Vee Sanford transfer because they were going to lose their scholarship. Honestly on the horrid SMU team those guys probably aren't good enough to even be able to get transfer offers from any other D1 program. So any kind of scholarship might be better than nothing. I'm not sure why people are making a big deal out of this to try to villainize Larry Brown.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Apr 30, 2012 14:02:44 GMT -5
Didn't Bennimon and Vee Sanford transfer because they were going to lose their scholarship. Didn't we have to run them off so we'd have more cash for the Greg Monroe bribe? I have trouble remembering all the rumors posted by the true-fan crowd
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Post by centercourt400s on Apr 30, 2012 15:27:05 GMT -5
Is the house clearing really surprising to anyone? Three things have characterized Brown's career: exceptional coaching ability, questionable ethics, and a legendary lack of loyalty. This kind of move is right down his alley.
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on Apr 30, 2012 15:37:28 GMT -5
I have no idea of what the SMU scholarship situation is, but couldn't Brown accomplish the same thing by recruiting over guys and just have them come to the realization they cannot play at SMU anymore? Isn't that how most big time programs operate? To actually come out and tell a kid - "you are not good enough to play for me, you can stay at the university just do not show up to workout tomorrow with your teammates" seems a bit too cold-blooded to me. Who wants to play in that type of professional atmosphere. Pros put up with that because they get paid, these kids are not being paid. Big time basketball or not, there are better ways to handle 18-22 year old amateurs than this example by Larry Brown. IMO, to be recruited over and forced to ride the pine without any explanation whatsoever is worse than someone telling you flat out, listen, you're not good enough to play here, you're welcome to stay in school and pursue your education but if you want to play basketball, you're gonna have to do it somewhere else. They're welcome to transfer and in situations like these I think the transfer rules as silly, but, why baby them? By 18-22, tons of other kids have already faced their first rejections whether through the college/grad school application cycle, or when they are out looking for their first real job. These kids don't have to deal with that, for the top 200 or so kids, people are knocking on their doors to get them to come to their school. Yeah, its heartbreaking, but it's the way of the world. You're right, these kids aren't getting paid, they are playing in exchange for a scholarship that they get to keep! This is a collegiate level basketball team. Cutting starts in like middle school for basketball teams. It seems simple to me - play well enough and perform to the extent that you deserve to have a spot on the team, and if you don't, cya later. This happens in eight grade but now that it happens at a college with 18-22 year old kids its ridiculous? Please. Also, regarding the scholarship situation, they were currently full so this was the only way to give them options. They created space on the team with out completely screwing over those who didn't deserve to be on the team.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Apr 30, 2012 20:47:35 GMT -5
IMO, to be recruited over and forced to ride the pine without any explanation whatsoever is worse than someone telling you flat out, listen, you're not good enough to play here, you're welcome to stay in school and pursue your education but if you want to play basketball, you're gonna have to do it somewhere else. They're welcome to transfer and in situations like these I think the transfer rules as silly, but, why baby them? By 18-22, tons of other kids have already faced their first rejections whether through the college/grad school application cycle, or when they are out looking for their first real job. These kids don't have to deal with that, for the top 200 or so kids, people are knocking on their doors to get them to come to their school. Yeah, its heartbreaking, but it's the way of the world. You're right, these kids aren't getting paid, they are playing in exchange for a scholarship that they get to keep! This is a collegiate level basketball team. Cutting starts in like middle school for basketball teams. It seems simple to me - play well enough and perform to the extent that you deserve to have a spot on the team, and if you don't, cya later. This happens in eight grade but now that it happens at a college with 18-22 year old kids its ridiculous? Please. Also, regarding the scholarship situation, they were currently full so this was the only way to give them options. They created space on the team with out completely screwing over those who didn't deserve to be on the team. I don't know if your response is directed at me, but I agree with you, so you're preaching to the choir here.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 30, 2012 22:27:32 GMT -5
According to ZagsBlog, Arizona transfer Josiah Turner is about to commit to SMU. Former top 30 prospect.
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on Apr 30, 2012 23:01:41 GMT -5
This is a collegiate level basketball team. Cutting starts in like middle school for basketball teams. It seems simple to me - play well enough and perform to the extent that you deserve to have a spot on the team, and if you don't, cya later. This happens in eight grade but now that it happens at a college with 18-22 year old kids its ridiculous? Please. Also, regarding the scholarship situation, they were currently full so this was the only way to give them options. They created space on the team with out completely screwing over those who didn't deserve to be on the team. I don't know if your response is directed at me, but I agree with you, so you're preaching to the choir here. Sort of building off of what you had said. Also, that Josiah Turner kid is apparently fresh off an "extreme" DUI. I've read that the kid is nothing but trouble, but its cool to see that they are suddenly able to attract kids with those kind of rankings.
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Post by whatrocks33 on May 1, 2012 13:54:11 GMT -5
Turner and Brown will butt heads in Dallas. As talented as he is, Arizona isn't exactly upset to see him go. Lots of headaches. BUT, if he gives Brown too many, we know what will happen: Brown will show him the door.
And while their record last season was disappointing, many insiders are high on this team's ability to win games going forward. In practices last year, their redshirts - many of whom are international students whose eligibility was held up by the NCAA but have no issues going forward - dominated their starting lineup. The rebuild isn't as drastic as it may seem for a team that went 13-19.
This type of housecleaning happens at almost every coaching change, although it seems a little more pronounced since some of the guys were starters. However, since they weren't the best guys at their position next year, there's no reason for Brown to keep them around. Especially with the staff he's assembled, they'll recruit locally and throughout the midwest with the best of them. This team is going to win and win soon.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on May 1, 2012 14:39:47 GMT -5
why is this still on the main page? smu isn't even in the conference yet.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on May 2, 2012 8:25:51 GMT -5
Larry Brown cut four players at SMU, and the problem is … ?QUOTE:Simply put, these four players got cut. It happens, in every sport and at every level once you get past the age where everyone is required to play the same amount. As sports get more competitive at a higher level, fewer people are going to be able to play. If you’re not good enough, you get cut.
It sucks. I know. I’ve been there. I’m sure a lot of you have as well. But this is Division I basketball, and Jeremiah Samirrippas and his three former teammates are big boys. They’ll be able to deal with the disappointment and continue his basketball career somewhere else. If you can earn a scholarship to SMU, you’ll be able to go to college for free at a lower level as well. And it’s not like this is going to derail an NBA career; Samarrippas was the best of the group and he averaged 6.9 points and 4.2 assists for a 13-19 team.
Honestly, I don’t think that Brown did anything that wrong. When a coach takes over a program, he wants to coach players that he believes will excel in his system. Those four didn’t fit into that vision. Again, it sucks but it happens. And if you want to argue the academics angle, well, Doyel said it best himself: “as if college basketball players go to school to major in something other than basketball.”
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on May 2, 2012 15:31:24 GMT -5
and that's what I was saying.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on May 2, 2012 15:45:42 GMT -5
and that's what I was saying. Yeah, I think that article sums it up pretty well. Though I would dis argue with the Doyle section in that these guys probably were actually taking advantage of the educational opportunity, but they can keep doing that even when they arent on the team
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Madgesdiq
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Post by Madgesdiq on May 3, 2012 6:23:37 GMT -5
and that's what I was saying. Yeah, I think that article sums it up pretty well. If you define "it" as "what's wrong with college basketball", I agree with you. Players essentially on one year scholarships. There are punitive measures taken if a kid wants to leave, but if a coach wants to leave a school, he can, or jettison a kid, he can. A coach can leave a school in ruins but the punishment doesn't follow the coach. Why not make a coach sit out a year before taking another job, or have a coach banned for as long as his program faces sanctions after he leaves. The NCAA is a beehive of hypocricy, everyone makes millions off these kids and all the rules in place protect the brand and not the kids. If you offer a kid a scholarship, as long as he stays in good academic standing and shows up at practice, he should be able to keep it. FU Larry Brown you whiny bitch.
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Post by whatrocks33 on May 3, 2012 9:08:48 GMT -5
when you say "essentially" you really mean "literally," right? It was 1957 when the NCAA first allowed athletic scholarships, in an effort to curb under-the-table payments by boosters. Ultimately, the schools agreed upon one-year scholarships as a way to even the playing field; most schools didn't want to offer 4-year deals because of the realities of poor scouting or injuries, but the richer schools had the luxury of winning despite these possibilities.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 3, 2012 11:18:25 GMT -5
Yeah, I think that article sums it up pretty well. If you define "it" as "what's wrong with college basketball", I agree with you. Players essentially on one year scholarships. There are punitive measures taken if a kid wants to leave, but if a coach wants to leave a school, he can, or jettison a kid, he can. A coach can leave a school in ruins but the punishment doesn't follow the coach. Why not make a coach sit out a year before taking another job, or have a coach banned for as long as his program faces sanctions after he leaves. The NCAA is a beehive of hypocricy, everyone makes millions off these kids and all the rules in place protect the brand and not the kids. If you offer a kid a scholarship, as long as he stays in good academic standing and shows up at practice, he should be able to keep it. FU Larry Brown you whiny bitch. You could call it "The Calipari Rule."
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on May 3, 2012 16:28:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I think that article sums it up pretty well. If you offer a kid a scholarship, as long as he stays in good academic standing and shows up at practice, he should be able to keep it. The kid was in good academic standing and showed up to practice. He still has the scholarship, just isn't on the team any more. Don't see the problem.
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on May 4, 2012 15:16:09 GMT -5
Landed Josiah Turner earlier today. Big moves.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on May 4, 2012 19:59:13 GMT -5
And they talked about it on PTI!
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on May 4, 2012 21:23:12 GMT -5
A miracle.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on May 4, 2012 21:35:02 GMT -5
I'm not prepared to doff my tinfoil cap yet.
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