sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Apr 13, 2012 7:40:41 GMT -5
Admin feel free to move not sure that this wasappropriate on the main board.
Please correct me if i'm wrong but before we even look to bring in Hayes or RU we have 5 current players plus one incoming recruit all capable of playing or who have played the 4 or 5.
Size is great and we needed to get bigger but 7 is going a little overboard. While i clearly recognize that Ottos future is at the 3 i'm not sure he's ready next year to be a dominant 3.
Seems like we have ignored the most pressing need for size and athleticsm in the backcourt. We have a glaring and immediate need for a true pg don't want to even think about who will handle the ball if starks goes down. Going forward we need an elite level type kid at that position. I'm not buying into this combo guard philosophy.
Yes the numbers will take care of themselves. But even I as one who readily advocates the upgrading of talent via transfer route, am getting a little concerned especially if it begins to impact our already low APR and doesnot address what we need.
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757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,999
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Post by 757hoyafan on Apr 13, 2012 7:50:33 GMT -5
T.T.S.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Apr 13, 2012 8:17:42 GMT -5
I'm not buying into this combo guard philosophy. cool...
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Apr 13, 2012 9:23:41 GMT -5
TTS thats my point they are not giving me much to T with.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 13, 2012 10:35:20 GMT -5
Admin feel free to move not sure that this wasappropriate on the main board. Please correct me if i'm wrong but before we even look to bring in Hayes or RU we have 5 current players plus one incoming recruit all capable of playing or who have played the 4 or 5. Size is great and we needed to get bigger but 7 is going a little overboard. While i clearly recognize that Ottos future is at the 3 i'm not sure he's ready next year to be a dominant 3. Seems like we have ignored the most pressing need for size and athleticsm in the backcourt. We have a glaring and immediate need for a true pg don't want to even think about who will handle the ball if starks goes down. Going forward we need an elite level type kid at that position. I'm not buying into this combo guard philosophy. Yes the numbers will take care of themselves. But even I as one who readily advocates the upgrading of talent via transfer route, am getting a little concerned especially if it begins to impact our already low APR and doesnot address what we need. - I wouldn't worry about the APR. We aren't nearly as close to getting hit as the last number would make you believe.
- What do you mean by true PG? Are you worried about the handle to get the ball up the court? Dribble penetration? Or are you talking about a dominate-the-ball-distributor type?
- I would point out that our most successful years involved a two and a half guard rotation which never, ever contained a pure PG, unless you count Jeremiah Rivers.
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by idhoya on Apr 13, 2012 10:38:20 GMT -5
I think a breakdown guy is what's being referred to. Peyton Siva without the wildness and with a jumpshot.
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by chep3 on Apr 13, 2012 11:02:56 GMT -5
I think it's a combo of a few things (no pun intended...maybe). First, the role of PG is minimized in our offense (relative to others), so it's not as pressing a need nor is it as glamorous a position for prospective recruits. Two, we are much more likely to lose bigs/wings to early entries than we are guards for similar reasons. Three, I think the experience of winning with elite bigs and losing with elite guards has probably altered the staff's priorities.
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by chep3 on Apr 13, 2012 11:03:56 GMT -5
I think a breakdown guy is what's being referred to. Peyton Siva without the wildness and with a jumpshot. Peyton Siva without the wildness and with a jumpshot = Steve Nash.
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by idhoya on Apr 13, 2012 11:08:53 GMT -5
I'm thinkin more like Ty Lawson. Nash is a HoF.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Apr 13, 2012 11:24:00 GMT -5
as usual good questions SF. Its more a question of what is going to fit with the group you have now and going forward. I'm not nearly convinced as many may be that OTTO who I love is going to fit into the mold of a point forward. Even if he has the vision and passing ability i might like to see him off the ball and hitting the boards.
Same time i get concerned if Whittington is sliding in for major minutes at the 2 the pressure on Starks/Trawick/DSR concerns me. When Starks came out of the starting lineup we were fortunate that we saw very little pressure on the Whit/ Clark backcourt.
Clearly you will agree thatThe D has improved significantly and potentially next years team may be on paper the best we have had in a long time. I'm not worried about replacing Clark or Hollis persay but point production from the backcourt ie scoring or passing.That was clearly missing through most of season.
regarding apr last 2 very low 942 and 938 i believe if we have any kind of combination of a couple of transfers an an early entry that leave without being in good standing we are screwed. Then i don'tknow what last years nos. is we could be in better shape or not. If you have better info i'll rest on your assurances.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Apr 13, 2012 11:55:40 GMT -5
Otto was a fantastic press break. He had the handles to bring the ball up under pressure from a forward and, if pressured by a guard, is tall enough to easily pass over the guard pressuring him. That was why, after the Marquette game, when we got pressed he was the main outlet and we didn't have problems with the press after that change.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 13, 2012 14:06:58 GMT -5
id, so basically you are saying we need a really ultra-talented player. Agree. Sleepy, I agree with the concern - Markel needs to get better, frankly. So does Jabril. I think the issue for next year is, there are no PGs ready to contribute available. It's a terrible PG class. But I understand the concern -- it's there -- but part of it may just be we aren't going to get the elite PGs so it may be better to get better combos than worse PGs. Let's just find combos with handles. On the APR, every year a year drops out and is replaced by the current, with its large number of possible points (52 for 13 schollies, I believe). Provided that Jason, Henry and Hollis graduate, I think we'd need to lose four points to even reach 925 (two transfers, both not in good academic standing) and even then, we'd need much lower than that to push us below it since the other three years are above it. Not sure if the APR is this up to date, but last years would have been the years ending '11, '10, '09, and '08. 2008 had the Rivers and Macklin transfer and I think one of our seniors might not have graduated (could be wrong). But at minimum it's two points and could be upwards of six. So we're not dropping an especially strong year either.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Apr 13, 2012 14:57:39 GMT -5
Brilly needs to realize that he can't bulldog everyone. He needs to add finesse to his game and the balance will make him more difficult to stop.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 15:08:21 GMT -5
Brilly needs to realize that he can't bulldog everyone. He needs to add finesse to his game and the balance will make him more difficult to stop. Yeah he needs to tighten up his handle. With his size and physicality he would be able to get to any spot on the floor most nights if that were to happen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 15:13:41 GMT -5
Who is this Steve Nash? Why isn't there a recruiting thread on this guy? Is he reclassifying to Class of '98? What's the latest?
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by idhoya on Apr 13, 2012 15:33:31 GMT -5
speaking of point guards.
Michael Orris got his realese from Illinois today. 2012. He's a 6'3 PG from IL. Distributes, gets to the rim and hits open Js. chose Illy over BC and Nebraska.
Anyone seen him? Wonder if Hoyas would have interest.
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gahoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by gahoya on Apr 13, 2012 15:57:29 GMT -5
Nobody thought there would be anyone to handle the ball last year and Jason stepped up. I'm sure Markel will do the same this year and he will be just fine in that regard.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Apr 13, 2012 16:05:30 GMT -5
I believe in him too ga, but depth is needed. One injury in the backcourt and we are woefully thin. Just need depth not a replacement.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Apr 13, 2012 17:42:21 GMT -5
Agree ID. The backcourt next year is really Starks, Jabril, Whittington, DSR and Bowen. In that group 2 have no experience, Whit is still learning to be a 2-3 and Jabril had very limited experience. I cannot remember too many Juco players at the Hilltop but it might be interesting to see what is out there, if the recruitment of Pollard/Upshaw falls through.
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CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Apr 13, 2012 19:06:08 GMT -5
id, so basically you are saying we need a really ultra-talented player. Agree. Sleepy, I agree with the concern - Markel needs to get better, frankly. So does Jabril. I think the issue for next year is, there are no PGs ready to contribute available. It's a terrible PG class. But I understand the concern -- it's there -- but part of it may just be we aren't going to get the elite PGs so it may be better to get better combos than worse PGs. Let's just find combos with handles. On the APR, every year a year drops out and is replaced by the current, with its large number of possible points (52 for 13 schollies, I believe). Provided that Jason, Henry and Hollis graduate, I think we'd need to lose four points to even reach 925 (two transfers, both not in good academic standing) and even then, we'd need much lower than that to push us below it since the other three years are above it. Not sure if the APR is this up to date, but last years would have been the years ending '11, '10, '09, and '08. 2008 had the Rivers and Macklin transfer and I think one of our seniors might not have graduated (could be wrong). But at minimum it's two points and could be upwards of six. So we're not dropping an especially strong year either. All of the seniors on the roster in 2008 graduated. Green obviously left the year before, and Cornelio transferred earlier, but Wallace, Hibbert, Crawford, and Ewing, Jr. graduated.
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