PhillyHoya
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Post by PhillyHoya on Apr 2, 2012 17:09:57 GMT -5
How many recruits do the Lady Hoyas have for next year? Weren't there like 7 seniors this yeaer? If those new kids back out, the program could in for a short term collapse. There's 3 or 4 that I recall. We were looking at a likely down year as it was before this news.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 2, 2012 17:14:14 GMT -5
Seven seniors, including the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th leading scorers.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Apr 2, 2012 17:23:31 GMT -5
This makes the choice of the next coach critical for the program. Find someone with strong recruiting credentials and hope for the best.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Apr 2, 2012 18:23:16 GMT -5
I've been watching West Springfield's Logan Battle for years and I would expect her to try and get out of her commitment. She's not really a guard per say but she's a great athlete.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Apr 2, 2012 18:52:56 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear this. I met Coach W-F at the UNLV-Georgetown game, and she was very gracious. This is a tough loss for us.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 2, 2012 19:32:43 GMT -5
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Apr 2, 2012 19:33:20 GMT -5
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Apr 2, 2012 19:34:28 GMT -5
ps jk i hopes youre wrong about deleted THATS whats important go hoyas
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 2, 2012 19:41:53 GMT -5
A few thoughts:
1. TWF was not even on Auburn's short list as late as Thursday, per the reports on the candidates for the jobs in the Alabama press. Either Auburn kept this well under the radar, or, perhaps, TWF's agent set this up in conjunction with the Women's Final Four when coaches and administrators could talk face to face without necessitating a trip on the Auburn corporate jet which would raise attention. GU's press release did not suggest they had a lot of advance warning, however.
2. TWF signed a five year extention in 2010, was then a candidate for Virginia in 2011, and left in 2012. That's not what you do when you get an extension, period, especially after GU stood by her through some poor teams from 2004-08. But it raises the issue of what led her to keep looking. Money? Did the training facility delays play a role? Or was it a case of leaving on top? The loss of seven seniors did not bode well fo the program in 12-13. Still, and it bears repearing, that's not what you do when you get an extension.
3. What are the qualities sought in the candidates? Big East experience? A Georgetown connection, perhaps? Does Georgetown seek a mid-major candidate and give him or her time to rebuild on their schedule, not necessarily "NCAA or bust"?
4. I don't think meant more to her program than any other coach--that mantle is still with Dave Urick. But it remains to be seen where the women's BB program goes from here and where Georgetown wants it to go. For all its considerable successes, there are still challenges. TWF never really expanded its base of support and the relationships with some in the women's basketball alumnae community were strained. Boith need to be priorities going forward.
5. Finally, I was always waiting for someone at GU to figure out that a women's/men's doubleheader at Verizon with UConn might have been the recipe to break that 20 year run of UConn wins. Probably won't happen, but let's appreciate what was accomplished.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Apr 2, 2012 21:56:41 GMT -5
2. TWF signed a five year extention in 2010, was then a candidate for Virginia in 2011, and left in 2012. That's not what you do when you get an extension, period, especially after GU stood by her through some poor teams from 2004-08. But it raises the issue of what led her to keep looking. Money? Did the training facility delays play a role? Or was it a case of leaving on top? The loss of seven seniors did not bode well fo the program in 12-13. Still, and it bears repearing, that's not what you do when you get an extension. Could have been any of those things. Truth be told, soon as she came up in conjunction with the UVA vacancy, I figured it was only a matter of time. Regardless of how much of it is truly under McDonough's control, vice some obscure neighborhood architectural board, the lack of facilities, fan support, $$$ for the program, etc. falls under "that's not what you do when you get a successful coach you'd like to keep around". I've been to a lot of games since Coach Flo was around, and sitting in McDonough sometimes you don't know whether to SMH or LOL. Building the practice facility is a given, but there's a ton more that needs to be done to better support many GU sports that starts inside McD...and a little bit with alums/fans as well. 4. I don't think meant more to her program than any other coach--that mantle is still with Dave Urick. But it remains to be seen where the women's BB program goes from here and where Georgetown wants it to go. For all its considerable successes, there are still challenges. TWF never really expanded its base of support and the relationships with some in the women's basketball alumnae community were strained. Boith need to be priorities going forward. I mean doesn't this speak to the underlying problem with pretty much every sport that plays on campus at GU? Let's say Dave Urick retires after this season. What exactly are you selling a new coach on? The facilities are awful, it's a hard conference, we don't raise a ton of money, it ain't the most professionally run place in the world... ...I'm not trying to be doom and gloom. Just a tad frustrated. Even when GU gets very lucky hiring talented coaches that turn successful (Urick, TWF, Brian Wiese, there are more)...are we ever really putting any oomph behind them structurally? If the sole driving force of the women's bball program success is "Coach Flo turned out to be really driven and successful with a good system"...sooooooo what happens when she leaves b/c those talents are in demand? Or Diamond Dave's lax record starts to slip like it has recently?
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Apr 2, 2012 22:46:29 GMT -5
2. TWF signed a five year extention in 2010, was then a candidate for Virginia in 2011, and left in 2012. That's not what you do when you get an extension, period, especially after GU stood by her through some poor teams from 2004-08. But it raises the issue of what led her to keep looking. Money? Did the training facility delays play a role? Or was it a case of leaving on top? The loss of seven seniors did not bode well fo the program in 12-13. Still, and it bears repearing, that's not what you do when you get an extension. Could have been any of those things. Truth be told, soon as she came up in conjunction with the UVA vacancy, I figured it was only a matter of time. Regardless of how much of it is truly under McDonough's control, vice some obscure neighborhood architectural board, the lack of facilities, fan support, $$$ for the program, etc. falls under "that's not what you do when you get a successful coach you'd like to keep around". I've been to a lot of games since Coach Flo was around, and sitting in McDonough sometimes you don't know whether to SMH or LOL. Building the practice facility is a given, but there's a ton more that needs to be done to better support many GU sports that starts inside McD...and a little bit with alums/fans as well. 4. I don't think meant more to her program than any other coach--that mantle is still with Dave Urick. But it remains to be seen where the women's BB program goes from here and where Georgetown wants it to go. For all its considerable successes, there are still challenges. TWF never really expanded its base of support and the relationships with some in the women's basketball alumnae community were strained. Boith need to be priorities going forward. I mean doesn't this speak to the underlying problem with pretty much every sport that plays on campus at GU? Let's say Dave Urick retires after this season. What exactly are you selling a new coach on? The facilities are awful, it's a hard conference, we don't raise a ton of money, it ain't the most professionally run place in the world... ...I'm not trying to be doom and gloom. Just a tad frustrated. Even when GU gets very lucky hiring talented coaches that turn successful (Urick, TWF, Brian Wiese, there are more)...are we ever really putting any oomph behind them structurally? If the sole driving force of the women's bball program success is "Coach Flo turned out to be really driven and successful with a good system"...sooooooo what happens when she leaves b/c those talents are in demand? Or Diamond Dave's lax record starts to slip like it has recently? Think about the programs that have successful athletics programs. By and large they tend to be State schools funded by tax-payer money. I really can't see how people expect Georgetown to come up with the type of funds it takes to support programs on the same level as those that can get State government cash to boost their facilities. Add in the fact that these institutions are generally much, much bigger than Georgetown in terms of student body and fan base and you can see why we struggle with the backing that so many of our sports probably deserve.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 2, 2012 23:10:07 GMT -5
...I'm not trying to be doom and gloom. Just a tad frustrated. Even when GU gets very lucky hiring talented coaches that turn successful (Urick, TWF, Brian Wiese, there are more)...are we ever really putting any oomph behind them structurally? If the sole driving force of the women's bball program success is "Coach Flo turned out to be really driven and successful with a good system"...sooooooo what happens when she leaves b/c those talents are in demand? Or Diamond Dave's lax record starts to slip like it has recently? Urick is as good a coach as he's bever been. But this isn't a good team. To have to rally past a 2-6 Lafayette team (GU is now 35th of 61 teams in the lacrosse version of the RPI) speaks to a pool of high school talent that now looks at Georgetown and said, "I can do better." Much like Greg Paulus sat through years of GU football games and did not follow his siblings to the Hilltop, so too that Wells Stanwick represents the family ties that got away, and the elite recruits know all to well of Georgetown's lack of basic amenities that they can (and do) enjoy elsewhere. The top teams all have (or are creating) dedicated lacrosse facilities. Loyola built a $50 million stadium ostensibly for lacrosse and soccer. Hopkins is building a training facility at Homewood for lacrosse. princeton has two lacrosse fields--Class of 1952 Stadium for the smaller games, Princeton Stadium for the big games. Recruits see the weeds grow around the MSF, the portable toilets, the unfinished fence...and then ask why they see the men's team sharing field time with spring football, with women's lacrosse, soccer teams, and intramurals--well, because that's all there is. You can open the IAC tomorrow and it still doesn't solve the fundamental variable that the D-I level high school lacrosse players are playing at better facilities than MSF, every one of them. Yet, Georgetown has whistled past the MSF for years, assuming that the coaching aura of Urick and the brand name up the hill was good enough to overlook the facilities mess. Used to, not anymore. In the time when the MSF was still Phase 1A, Notre Dame spent $5 million and built this: www.und.com/facilities/arlotta-stadium.htmlLouisville, certainly not a lacrosse power, built this: www.uoflsports.com/facilities/lou-facilities-lacrosse-stadium.htmlFisher Stadium at Lafayette puts the MSF to shame, and it's not even built for lacrosse: www.goleopards.com/facilities/lafa-fisher.htmlAnd yet, a cross-section of the lacrosse constituency never rallied behind the MSF plans and figured that it didn't need to put in the fundraising when the old ways and Urick's name still brought in the talent. If they lose Urick, Georgeotwn will be another middle tier team, without the lure to pull of elite recruiting, no facilities, a smallish fan base, and little momentum to return to the narrow band of the sport's elite, a place that it once enjoyed. Which is, sadly, where the women's basketball program could be heading.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Apr 2, 2012 23:22:06 GMT -5
And yet, a cross-section of the lacrosse constituency never rallied behind the MSF plans and figured that it didn't need to put in the fundraising when the old ways and Urick's name still brought in the talent. If they lose Urick, Georgeotwn will be another middle tier team, without the lure to pull of elite recruiting, no facilities, a smallish fan base, and little momentum to return to the narrow band of the sport's elite, a place that it once enjoyed. Which is, sadly, where the women's basketball program could be heading. You and I basically agree. My point was that too often at GU, too much of the success is tied up in "the old ways and X's name still brought in the talent". Shoot, don't you often bring up the dangerous hypothetical of exactly what we'd be left with if JTIII got an offer he couldn't refuse? I get GU doesn't enjoy some state-school benefits such as a large alumni base and big donation $$$ rolling. I'm fine with "doing more with less" and accepting the limitations--your Coach Flo types might up and leave and your program's suddenly in a hard place. I'm just saying: you get the feeling a lot of times--the MSF is just one of many--that GU isn't always doing more (for whatever reason), and at some point, that's a bit frustrating.
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Apr 2, 2012 23:24:15 GMT -5
DFW
-With all due respect, I don't think the facilities argument is as "sticky"/tenacious for GU Men's Lacrosse as it is for Men's hoops. Top boys lax recruits aren't coming to GU for poor facilities-- there's a bigger elephant in the room.
Not to open a very delicate can of worms but the consensus perception, at least on the web, of GU Men's Lacrosse is not poor facilities but underwhelming on-field execution over the last 5-10 years, especially at the offensive end. GU is usually unfavorably compared with UNC as having done the least with the most HS talent harvested for a number of years now.
You'll find no bigger fan than yours truly of the men's lax coach at GU. He built up the program from nothing. But a pattern is a pattern. And building a nicer MSF won't help to turn around that perception. Making and winning a couple of NCAA tourney games will. Which should hopefully serve as a cautionary tale for a certain basketball coach on the Hilltop as well......
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 2, 2012 23:34:00 GMT -5
Recruits go where they can a) win, b) play in a program dedicated to excellence on and off the field (and that includes training and gametime experience), and c) get an education.
Georgetown can offer a) and deliver c). A lot are delivering all three, and if the elite kids at Loyola, Gilman, Calvert Hall, etc. see that no progress is being made on and off the field, their absence on signing day has a cumulative effect.
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KirbyKeger
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Post by KirbyKeger on Apr 2, 2012 23:39:47 GMT -5
WilsonBlvdHoya nailed it. We had the #1 recruiting class in 2006. What did that class go on to do? Not a whole lot at all. Its tough to attribute the lack of recent success in that program to recruiting (particularly with regard to facilities), although the lack of success could very well be leading to shortcomings in recruiting.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Apr 2, 2012 23:49:53 GMT -5
georetown teams compete and do very well considering what resources they have they need more resources for sure.. . womens cross country national champs track and field national ranked AND NO TRACK nope cant have meets or practice at home womens lax has been to some final fours. mens bball aint bad womens bball ncaas football on its way up competed for the pat chamionship SO think we got great kids can recruit great coaches and all work hard. NEED MONEY AND SUPPORT thats about it. yup money and support start by 1951 lets get it done and move move move moveand move on from there. go hoyas YUP go hoyas.sailing aint bad either national champs me thinks women and men soccer very very competitive also yup even baseball is winning some games etc etc etc . and they are all STUDENT athletes yup all
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Apr 3, 2012 8:34:16 GMT -5
Thanks for everything, Coach, and good luck at your new gig. You put Hoyas ladies hoops on the map.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Apr 3, 2012 9:55:09 GMT -5
a question if somebody just signed a five year contract,, does the school that hired her have to pay some penalty ie money to us?? just wondering cause that might make getting a good replacement a little easier so if anybody has thoughts on this would appreciate it . It does seem thats the case.. and i do worry about this years recruits.. seven seniors gone .. sugar should stay to get the hoya degree but we will see must move move move and move on go hoyas .
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 3, 2012 10:13:30 GMT -5
It's all in the wording of the contract. if Georgetown put in a penalty clause, then TWF would owe something for early termination. There also could be declining penalties after certain years:, e.g. if you terminate the agreement after year 1, x, after year two, y, and after year three, none. Concurrently, there may be retention bonuses if a coach stays after each year of the contract. Some coaches even put in different terminations for a "favored" school, e.g., Les Miles might have put in one termination clause for leaving early and a different one if he is hired by Michigan or Notre Dame.
For a timely example, John Calipari. His contract is on the Web and has this termination clause: if Calipari leaves on his own after year 1, he owes UK $3 million, after year two, $2 million, after year 3, $1 million, after year four, $0. Not the same money as TWF, but an example. (He also picked up a $575K bonus for winning last night's game and another $175K for making the Final Four.)
Or, a better example, Auburn football coach Gene Chizik--he pays the lesser of $750K or his base salary in the remaining years of the contract (in the SEC, the base is low but the bonuses are sky-high), but only if he becomes a head coach elsewhere. Presumably, if he wanted to quit to become a TV analyst, he would owe Auburn $0.
Obviously, Georgetown contracts are not on the web, but it probably won't be the last time contracts are an issue on this board.
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