kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 26, 2012 14:45:11 GMT -5
God forbid we wait for facts to be developed: gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-shooter-told-cops-teenager-went-gun-030349812--abc-news.htmlIf we didn't rush to judgment, maybe we wouldn't make statements like: - Why did he fear for his life when a skinny 17 year old kid armed with a bottle of ice tea and skittles make him fear for his life
- Martin had no criminal record and no history of violence.
- what seems fairly obvious is that the local police completely bungled the initial investigation.
I'm not saying Zimmerman is innocent, or that he shouldn't be charged with something. However, let's see what additional information comes out before summarily convicting ____ [fill-in-the-blank]. No one is saying convict the guy. You just keep saying stop convicting the guy. Most people, his family included, want to know why he wasn't arrested for shooting an unarmed boy to death. Mistakes were made during the investigation so much so that the the police chief has partially stepped down, and both the state and federal govt are getting involved. I clearly said convicting him is up to the DA, but how is actions didn't warrant being arrested doesn't add up. This whole thing would have been avoided if Zimmerman doesn't do his best rent a cop routine and ignore Neighborhood Watch protocol, and the 9-1-1 operator's instructions. There is a reason vigilantism is illegal in the US. Police are trained to manage situations and having a uniform gives them the authority to get involved in people's business. I apologize. I thought that his guilt was a foregone conclusion in your mind. I don't know what gave me that idea.
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Mar 26, 2012 15:17:35 GMT -5
Its irrelevant whats in my mind, I'm not on the jury or the DA, I don't have to be impartial. Yeah I think he's guilty but if the evidence comes out that shows he isn't then I won't anymore.
But all the information we have shows the police didn't do their job and this evidence is pretty damning against Zimmerman yet we are getting some bogus explanation for why they didn't arrest him.
Its frustrating, especially as a minority, to think someone could shoot me to death and if they told the cops I attacked them first the cops would be sounds good, have a nice day. Anytime someone ends up dead you expect a first rate investigation and if there is increased media scrutiny the police department doesn't say things like uhhh we should have done a breathalyzer on Zimmerman, we should have sent a homicide detective, and our town no longer trusts our police chief BUT trust us, all the evidence points this being self defense.
Shockingly most of us don't believe them, and if they can't bother to do a proper investigation how do we know they even entertained the possibility it wasn't a self-defense case. Sounds like lazy policing all around. They keep falling behind this "Stand Your Ground" defense. But then the guys who wrote it say things like this: “He has no protection under my law,” former Sen. Durell Peaden told the newspaper. It makes me question, why does the guy who wrote the law think it doesn't apply to Zimmerman but the impeccable Sanford Police Department thinks it does?
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 26, 2012 16:21:51 GMT -5
This. The initial pressure from the national level may have been useful to ensure the matter got a fair look from local law authorities, but is there any doubt that the more national attention it gets, the less likely justice will be done and the more likely this will turn into a ridiculous media circus exploited by everyone that has any opportunity to (See, e.g., the Duke Lacrosse scandal)? I get your point about grandstanding D.A.s but isn't the Duke Lacrosse scandal an example of the national media circus getting it right? Despite the initial rush to public judgement, Nifong was disbarred, everything was dropped and according to Wikipedia several criminal justice bills passed to try to make sure the same thing didn't happen again. Those things may or may not happen in a vacuum of attention.
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derhoya
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Post by derhoya on Mar 27, 2012 6:56:51 GMT -5
www.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/us/shooter-of-florida-teen-describes-assault.html?hpMore details to Zimmerman's side of things plus supposed leaks of Trayvon's teenage background confounding the story a bit. Where the hell are more eye witnesses is my question. If the altercation occurred in a courtyard/walkway area between apartment buildings, didn't the commotion cause more people to see things?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 27, 2012 7:19:59 GMT -5
Kitty Genovese says no...
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 27, 2012 7:54:33 GMT -5
This. The initial pressure from the national level may have been useful to ensure the matter got a fair look from local law authorities, but is there any doubt that the more national attention it gets, the less likely justice will be done and the more likely this will turn into a ridiculous media circus exploited by everyone that has any opportunity to (See, e.g., the Duke Lacrosse scandal)? I get your point about grandstanding D.A.s but isn't the Duke Lacrosse scandal an example of the national media circus getting it right? Despite the initial rush to public judgement, Nifong was disbarred, everything was dropped and according to Wikipedia several criminal justice bills passed to try to make sure the same thing didn't happen again. Those things may or may not happen in a vacuum of attention. Yeah but a few college students did get "rapist" tattooed on them for several months. Acquittal or not, that's hard to wash away. A sub-set of the population will always see them as "getting away with something" regardless of the facts of the case because they were characterized that way in the media. Put it this way, more people are likely to identify the Duke lacrosse players as "those guys in the rape case" than Nifong as "the guy who got disbarred for the rape case." Zimmerman seems guilty, but so what? If he isn't guilty, he's screwed. If he is, he's a neighborhood watch, cop wannabe guy "out for justice" who went nuts. I'm not sure he is the best every man to represent some larger social issue. So I don't think a media circus is often a net positive when it comes to matters of legal justice and probably wouldn't be so here either.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 27, 2012 8:18:41 GMT -5
Kitty Genovese says no... Beat me to it.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 27, 2012 21:18:03 GMT -5
I get your point about grandstanding D.A.s but isn't the Duke Lacrosse scandal an example of the national media circus getting it right? Despite the initial rush to public judgement, Nifong was disbarred, everything was dropped and according to Wikipedia several criminal justice bills passed to try to make sure the same thing didn't happen again. Those things may or may not happen in a vacuum of attention. Yeah but a few college students did get "rapist" tattooed on them for several months. Acquittal or not, that's hard to wash away. A sub-set of the population will always see them as "getting away with something" regardless of the facts of the case because they were characterized that way in the media. Put it this way, more people are likely to identify the Duke lacrosse players as "those guys in the rape case" than Nifong as "the guy who got disbarred for the rape case." Zimmerman seems guilty, but so what? If he isn't guilty, he's screwed. If he is, he's a neighborhood watch, cop wannabe guy "out for justice" who went nuts. I'm not sure he is the best every man to represent some larger social issue. So I don't think a media circus is often a net positive when it comes to matters of legal justice and probably wouldn't be so here either. dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/paper-spike-lee-tweeted-incorrect-george-zimmerman-address-possibly-putting-sanford-woman-in-danger/
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 28, 2012 5:45:34 GMT -5
I was shocked to learn (of course not via mainstream media) that Zimmerman is a regidtered Democrat. Would his party affiliation be more prominent if he were a Republican?
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ksf42001
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Post by ksf42001 on Mar 28, 2012 5:56:52 GMT -5
I was shocked to learn (of course not via mainstream media) that Zimmerman is a regidtered Democrat. Would his party affiliation be more prominent if he were a Republican? Wow, you found a link on drudge. You really did scour the underground of the internet to find this tidbit... Why does it matter though? I'm pretty sure democrats can be racist too. Have you ever been to boston?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 28, 2012 7:35:53 GMT -5
I was shocked to learn (of course not via mainstream media) that Zimmerman is a regidtered Democrat. Would his party affiliation be more prominent if he were a Republican? Wow, you found a link on drudge. You really did scour the underground of the internet to find this tidbit... Why does it matter though? I'm pretty sure democrats can be racist too. Have you ever been to boston? How would this be covered if Mr. Zimmerman were a Republican or, God forbid, a Tea Party member? I'm quite sure Democrats can be racist, they just don't get called on it as often.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 28, 2012 8:25:31 GMT -5
Don't forget that he's a "white Hispanic."
Seriously, the media makes a mockery of themselves most of the time.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 28, 2012 8:31:34 GMT -5
Wow, you found a link on drudge. You really did scour the underground of the internet to find this tidbit... Why does it matter though? I'm pretty sure democrats can be racist too. Have you ever been to boston? How would this be covered if Mr. Zimmerman were a Republican or, God forbid, a Tea Party member? I'm quite sure Democrats can be racist, they just don't get called on it as often. C'mon, we all know you went online yesterday and purchased an Obama 2012 Hoodie. (Yes, I saw that on Drudge)
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 28, 2012 10:35:09 GMT -5
How would this be covered if Mr. Zimmerman were a Republican or, God forbid, a Tea Party member? I'm quite sure Democrats can be racist, they just don't get called on it as often. Let me just see if I have your trolling straight - the problem with the media coverage and public opinion on this issue is that George Zimmerman hasn't been called a racist enough ... and on top of that, he hasn't been called a racist enough because he's a Democrat?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 28, 2012 10:41:19 GMT -5
No trolling. just wondering if his party affiliation would be more prominently mentioned if he were not a Democrat.
I have not concluded he is a racist. Has that issue been decided? Right now, I believe him to be stupid. The rest is just the worst type of conjecture.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 28, 2012 10:41:21 GMT -5
How would this be covered if Mr. Zimmerman were a Republican or, God forbid, a Tea Party member? I'm quite sure Democrats can be racist, they just don't get called on it as often. Let me just see if I have your trolling straight - the problem with the media coverage of this issue is that George Zimmerman hasn't been called a racist enough - because he's a Democrat? C'mon, you know exactly what he's saying. If Zimmerman could be tied to the GOP in any fashion, you know Jesse Jackson and MSNBC would have blamed all of this on the tea party and the Republicans. However, don't underestimate them. I think they'll figure out a way to do it. I hear Lawrence O'Donnell is going to interview an empty chair tonight that saw the whole thing happen and heard Zimmerman utter "I love Mitt" as he shot Martin.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 28, 2012 10:45:41 GMT -5
C'mon, you know exactly what he's saying. If Zimmerman could be tied to the GOP in any fashion, you know Jesse Jackson and MSNBC would have blamed all of this on the tea party and the Republicans. You mean just like big Drudge flashing sirens saying that George Zimmerman is a Democrat?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 28, 2012 10:52:28 GMT -5
C'mon, you know exactly what he's saying. If Zimmerman could be tied to the GOP in any fashion, you know Jesse Jackson and MSNBC would have blamed all of this on the tea party and the Republicans. You mean just like big Drudge flashing sirens saying that George Zimmerman is a Democrat? I agree there was no reason to so slander Zimmerman...
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 28, 2012 10:59:52 GMT -5
This really is a tragedy, and I feel bad about any making light of it, regardless of the political nonsense that may accompany this incident.
However, the Lawrence O'Donnell "chair" interview was probably the most ridiculous and absurd thing I have ever seen (that was not a Herman Cain campaign/issue ad).
I didn't see it when it happened, but someone pointed it out to me to watch later. And Jon Stewart, to his credit, gave that the utter skewering it deserved.
I'm trying to think if Keith Olbermann or Glenn Beck ever reached that depth of idiocy. I really don't think either of them ever did.
Tom Wolfe should write a novel about this case....except that he already did.
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Madgesdiq
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Post by Madgesdiq on Mar 28, 2012 11:07:04 GMT -5
No trolling. just wondering if his party affiliation would be more prominently mentioned if he were not a Democrat. I have not concluded he is a racist. Has that issue been decided? Right now, I believe him to be stupid. The rest is just the worst type of conjecture. An MSNBC panel last weekend was speculating on whether GZ was a member of the tea party, so I do not think your line of questioning is off base. They certainly were hoping he was.
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