IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Mar 18, 2012 18:13:27 GMT -5
Well said OP. I got the gears hard in the BB recruiting thread for having the audacity of pointing out we are basically a mid level program. I said bottom line you win or you don't. Results speak.
We went 2-2 this post season and blew a tire in the NCAA's. Another failure by the program. Again.
But the kool aid drinkers will tell you it was a successful season. Again.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 18, 2012 18:18:59 GMT -5
Well said OP. I got the gears hard in the BB recruiting thread for having the audacity of pointing out we are basically a mid level program. I said bottom line you win or you don't. Results speak. A second round exit does not define a mid-level program, and I think we know that. Villanova and Pitt didn't even make the NCAA, what, by comparison, are they?
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Mar 18, 2012 18:31:13 GMT -5
Midlevel in a major conference.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 18, 2012 18:39:08 GMT -5
Midlevel in a major conference. Again, I think you're speaking in the heat of battle. If you had to rank the Big East programs nationally, Georgetown is well represented: Tier I: Syr, UConn, Lvl, GU, Pitt Tier II: Villanova, Marquette, ND, WV Tier III: Cinc, USF, St. John's, Seton Hall Tier IV: Rutgers, PC, DePaul, After 2013: Tier I: UConn, Lvl, GU, Marquette Tier II: Memphis, Nova, Cinc, ND, Temple Tier III: USF, St. John's, Seton Hall, Houston Tier IV: Rutgers, PC, DePaul, UCF, SMU
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Mar 18, 2012 18:42:53 GMT -5
DFW re read the BB recruiting thread starting on page 22 ish. You will see I have been banging the drum for awhile that this program does not get results.
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Mar 18, 2012 18:43:53 GMT -5
Midlevel in a major conference. So why do you support such a mid-level team then? I'm sure there are plenty of top-level teams more suitable for your rooting interest.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 18, 2012 18:46:29 GMT -5
You're proving everything Casual Hoya says about this board to be true. What does he/it say about this board? Given that Hoyatalk (through CH's self-linking, no analysis posts) basically legitimized his comedy entertainment site I'm curious what his thoughts are. Are these in the CH comment threads? I can't get past the endless string of animated GIFs. Curiously.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 18, 2012 18:47:01 GMT -5
And no of course I didn't read the initial post. Shouldn't the title be changed to just "LONG"?
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Mar 18, 2012 18:47:16 GMT -5
Midlevel in a major conference. So why do you support such a mid-level team then? I'm sure there are plenty of top-level teams more suitable for your rooting interest. So should I only cheer for a front runner? I can't cheer for a team and wish they do better? I can't cheer for a team and not want to except its mediocrity? Already people are talking about next years team and how great it will be. Based on what?
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 18, 2012 18:49:49 GMT -5
Midlevel in a major conference. Again, I think you're speaking in the heat of battle. If you had to rank the Big East programs nationally, Georgetown is well represented: Tier I: Syr, UConn, Lvl, GU, Pitt Tier II: Villanova, Marquette, ND, WV Tier III: Cinc, USF, St. John's, Seton Hall Tier IV: Rutgers, PC, DePaul, After 2013: Tier I: UConn, Lvl, GU, Marquette Tier II: Memphis, Nova, Cinc, ND, Temple Tier III: USF, St. John's, Seton Hall, Houston Tier IV: Rutgers, PC, DePaul, UCF, SMU I agree with you DFW, but I suspect MU fans would take issue with your listing them in a tier below GU right now. Marquette's been a more successful program than GU every year since Buzz got there.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 18, 2012 18:50:45 GMT -5
So why do you support such a mid-level team then? I'm sure there are plenty of top-level teams more suitable for your rooting interest. So should I only cheer for a front runner? I can't cheer for a team and wish they do better? I can't cheer for a team and not want to except its mediocrity? Already people are talking about next years team and how great it will be. Based on what? There's a not totally crazy point to be made in here somewhere, but you need to change your word choices. "Mediocre" isn't the word to describe a perennial top 20 team.
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harlemhoya
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Post by harlemhoya on Mar 18, 2012 18:55:05 GMT -5
Just wish someone would say Georgetown plays HARD. A statement that has been missing for about 10+ years. I don't know what HARD means, but I wish we played that way.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 18, 2012 18:57:31 GMT -5
So why do you support such a mid-level team then? I'm sure there are plenty of top-level teams more suitable for your rooting interest. So should I only cheer for a front runner? I can't cheer for a team and wish they do better? I can't cheer for a team and not want to except its mediocrity? Already people are talking about next years team and how great it will be. Based on what? Enj, if you truly think the program is mediocre then it's exceeding your expectations by a lot and you should be happy. You can't have it both ways.. Seriously, you really don't think next years team has the potential to be very good?
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 18, 2012 18:58:55 GMT -5
I think there is a clear line to draw here between Elite and good, nationally relevant programs. Georgetown is a good, nationally relevant program that we all want to be an Elite program. That basically it what generates this type of criticism. Here are a few issues though I have with the initial post.
One, the Hoyas were a Good rebounding team this season, so I do not consider this a trend. They rebounded poorly today, usually when you lose you did something poorly and that was it. But throughtout the season the Hoyas were a good revounding team.'
Two, you say this team has elite talent because you say they are talented enough to make the championship game - are you serious? 10 freshmen and sophomores, with no Top 25 players in that group, a starting center who averaged 3 and 3 last season and no first round NBA prospects - yet this roster can be considered elite? Wow, what would you call UNC's and UK's rosters, do you even have a word for it? JT3 maximized this team, I just cannot figure out how you are missing it. This was a middle of the pack BE team at best.
Three, you mention Mike Brey as an example of doing things better. Again, Brey is probably one of the most under-achieving coaches ever in the NCAAs. Does ND ever advance? He is still a great coach in my mind but to applaud him in a post badmouthing JT3's inability to breakthrough in the NCAAs is just absurd.
Finally, to say we allow open 3s is ridiculous. We are the #1 ranked team in 3pt defense, number feakin' one! That speaks for itself, NO ONE played 3-pt defense better than the Hoyas and yet this is a criticism?
By criticizing that you prove you are just out to be a critic with no focus so I'll stop reacting to it.
Back to being an elite program. We all want it, but be realistic, until the university invests in the team beyond JT3's salary, we will remain a Top 15-25 program. By the way, back when Georgetown was "elite", how many Final Fours did JT2 go to without Ewing? And yet he is "legendary" and to some his son is a bum. I guess III just needs to find a Ewing to make him an all-time great coach?
Anyway, this is all pointless. The team is moving in the right direction under III and it is up to the administration to support the team. III is a good coach, he needs better recruits which is hard without anything to sell the program besides himself and the NBA careers of some of his former players. All in all, III is doing a tremendous job and you can see him adapting year over year - what more can you REASONABLY ask for?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 18, 2012 19:01:41 GMT -5
Everyone, just stop arguing with enj. He established quite clearly on the recruiting thread that he only cares about NCAA tourney performance -- nothing else matters to him. He also established he's really not interested in logic or comprehensive analysis.
So most of you are arguing from completely different places.
I really find no time to argue with someone so dishonest in their commentary as to continually ignore BET performance when we do well in his arguments but use it here. He changes facts and criteria to suit his pre-established conclusion. What's the point in arguing with someone who's arguments are better suited to shock-jock radio?
Here's a tip to identify those not worth arguing with: they are the ones who always say "I got hammered for saying..." -- they are generally whiny people who cannot take people with the audacity to challenge their arguments and usually the most sensitive when someone does.
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Mar 18, 2012 19:04:15 GMT -5
So why do you support such a mid-level team then? I'm sure there are plenty of top-level teams more suitable for your rooting interest. So should I only cheer for a front runner? I can't cheer for a team and wish they do better? I can't cheer for a team and not want to except its mediocrity? Already people are talking about next years team and how great it will be. Based on what? We all want this team to win a national championship every year, but simply because they didn't doesn't make this season or this program a failure. If failing to cut down the nets or get to some imaginary cut-off point for success is what you judge this program by, wait until the national championship game every year and pick a side. All of this B.S. about being mediocre, mid-level, a failure, etc.. is just dumb. This team gave it their all the entire season and it's almost disrespectful for any of us behind their keyboards to call what they gave us as fans this season a "failure". Get a little perspective, seriously.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 18, 2012 19:05:47 GMT -5
Everyone, just stop arguing with enj. He established quite clearly on the recruiting thread that he only cares about NCAA tourney performance -- nothing else matters to him. He also established he's really not interested in logic or comprehensive analysis. So most of you are arguing from completely different places. I really find no time to argue with someone so dishonest in their commentary as to continually ignore BET performance when we do well in his arguments but use it here. He changes facts and criteria to suit his pre-established conclusion. What's the point in arguing with someone who's arguments are better suited to shock-jock radio? Here's a tip to identify those not worth arguing with: they are the ones who always say "I got hammered for saying..." -- they are generally whiny people who cannot take people with the audacity to challenge their arguments and usually the most sensitive when someone does. *Candidate for post of the year.
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Mar 18, 2012 19:12:11 GMT -5
Everyone, just stop arguing with enj. He established quite clearly on the recruiting thread that he only cares about NCAA tourney performance -- nothing else matters to him. He also established he's really not interested in logic or comprehensive analysis. So most of you are arguing from completely different places. I really find no time to argue with someone so dishonest in their commentary as to continually ignore BET performance when we do well in his arguments but use it here. He changes facts and criteria to suit his pre-established conclusion. What's the point in arguing with someone who's arguments are better suited to shock-jock radio? Here's a tip to identify those not worth arguing with: they are the ones who always say "I got hammered for saying..." -- they are generally whiny people who cannot take people with the audacity to challenge their arguments and usually the most sensitive when someone does. I like it when people use big words and complicated sentences to say nothing in the end. Congrats. Results speak. Please list ours in the NCAA over the last 5 years. How did we do in the BET this year? 2-2 this post season.
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Mar 18, 2012 19:15:40 GMT -5
So should I only cheer for a front runner? I can't cheer for a team and wish they do better? I can't cheer for a team and not want to except its mediocrity? Already people are talking about next years team and how great it will be. Based on what? We all want this team to win a national championship every year, but simply because they didn't doesn't make this season or this program a failure. If failing to cut down the nets or get to some imaginary cut-off point for success is what you judge this program by, wait until the national championship game every year and pick a side. All of this B.S. about being mediocre, mid-level, a failure, etc.. is just dumb. This team gave it their all the entire season and it's almost disrespectful for any of us behind their keyboards to call what they gave us as fans this season a "failure". Get a little perspective, seriously. Who said it was a failure? We are never going to compete with the big boys and we are not going to be in a position to challenge for a title. Accept who you are. Many here can't. Wait for next year, or wait for so and so to get on campus. Then we will be top 5, or contending for the NCAA is a common refrain. Been hearing it for 5-6 years now. When will it happen?
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Mar 18, 2012 19:18:43 GMT -5
Post #20 of this thread, you said:
We went 2-2 this post season and blew a tire in the NCAA's. Another failure by the program. Again.
Other than that, do you.
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