RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Mar 18, 2012 14:03:58 GMT -5
How many times has Georgetown failed to get a good shot out of a timeout? For how many seasons? When the same result continues to happen in same scenario, while the rosters turnover, where does any confidence come from seeing Hoyas in that situation? Needed timeout more at that point--down 2, plenty of time if you miss to extend the game. These timeouts when you are on offense late in a game are odd. They are too valuable to give up. Also-based on how today's game was going--how does Hollis Thompson not take that shot? You have to read the way game is being played in moment and live/die with what your best player does. If Hollis gets it--maybe they run 2 guys at him and someone slips to hoop for easy look? If they lay off him-he gets shot and I think everyone lives with result. Just my two cents and I'm very proud of team this year overall. RDF how do we know the play was not designed for Hollis? There were still 15 seconds left when Otto shot, plenty of time to get Hollis open. I don't expect Coach or any of the players to throw Otto under the bus, but I have a feeling he took it upon himself to take that shot. It's a matter of results. If guys are ignoring his instructions for what--5 years now?--then maybe he should re-think how he communicates. Obviously I don't believe that is the case--because I think we all know players respect him-so what's the issue? Why does the same thing continue to happen? I just think the one thing that many forget with an offense that shares the ball--and that mentality--as great as it is for guys to play in/coach, it's also hard to understand/see the importance of going to the hot hand. There is a reason in most offenses your best weapon touches the ball late in a game and takes on that situation--either shooting/creating look for teammates and when Jeff Green got the ball in '07, you saw what happened--good results. Now I think you could argue--you get ball to Sims and run play through him-but have Hollis off him-as we've seen is open-be it Marquette where he hit game winner and Syracuse--where he was open but didn't get the ball. Either way--that perimeter around the horn and then off the dribble play was questionable. Maybe it's just frustration-but seeing same issue be a problem for years--with different players--means it's something that needs to be looked it. III did a nice job this year--and has program back on right path. Proud of everyone for the season overall and like direction of program. |
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hoyainspirit
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 4,196
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 18, 2012 14:04:29 GMT -5
How many times has Georgetown failed to get a good shot out of a timeout? For how many seasons? When the same result continues to happen in same scenario, while the rosters turnover, where does any confidence come from seeing Hoyas in that situation? Needed timeout more at that point--down 2, plenty of time if you miss to extend the game. These timeouts when you are on offense late in a game are odd. They are too valuable to give up. Also-based on how today's game was going--how does Hollis Thompson not take that shot? You have to read the way game is being played in moment and live/die with what your best player does. If Hollis gets it--maybe they run 2 guys at him and someone slips to hoop for easy look? If they lay off him-he gets shot and I think everyone lives with result. I love you, RDF, but these timeouts/no timeouts who-got-the-shot how-good-was-the-look discussion are so silly, and are always motivated by the result. The defense gets to draw up a play too, and by the way they kept us from getting any easy shots the entire game. Hollis hit a difficult, contested 3 of a drawn-up play vs. Alabama--was JTIII brilliant that day? There's also the matter of execution. JTIII's gotta lose about 8-9 more of these in a row, including by allowing six guys on the other side and by failing to foul with 38 seconds left before we've got enough information to form a consensus on stuff like this. A good offensive player, Otto, had the ball within his scoring range. He hesitated with the 3, tried to take it closer, was well-guarded, then forced a tough shot that missed. Happens all the time. +1. Otto is one of the players I want taking that shot. |
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nodak89
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Roy Roy Royyyyy!!!
Posts: 1,742
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Post by nodak89 on Mar 18, 2012 14:06:39 GMT -5
I couldn't be prouder to have me a Jason Clark jersey.
Proud to call him a fellow Hoya.
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superan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by superan on Mar 18, 2012 14:06:44 GMT -5
I love you, RDF, but these timeouts/no timeouts who-got-the-shot how-good-was-the-look discussion are so silly, and are always motivated by the result. The defense gets to draw up a play too, and by the way they kept us from getting any easy shots the entire game. Hollis hit a difficult, contested 3 of a drawn-up play vs. Alabama--was JTIII brilliant that day? There's also the matter of execution. JTIII's gotta lose about 8-9 more of these in a row, including by allowing six guys on the other side and by failing to foul with 38 seconds left before we've got enough information to form a consensus on stuff like this. A good offensive player, Otto, had the ball within his scoring range. He hesitated with the 3, tried to take it closer, was well-guarded, then forced a tough shot that missed. Happens all the time. +1. Otto is one of the players I want taking that shot. Agreed, but in this game it had to be Hollis taking that shot unless the defense was swarming Hollis. Haven't seen the replay but if that's what happened then only then I'm fine with Otto taking that. |
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 18, 2012 14:07:00 GMT -5
As for the second to last shot....we know that Coach doesn't draw up "one option" plays. It looked like the ball was to come to Henry in the post, and I assume he was going to take the shot if he was defended by one player or kick for a three if the double came. Just a guess. I have no problem running the play through him because neither Hollis nor Jason is all that adept at creating anyway. It's possible that they were going to enter it to him and if he didn't feel he had it, quick back out and then run a high screen. They've done that a few times in big situations early this year.
But I'm guessing that, like always, the message was to "take a good shot" and to use spacing to give the best chance for that to happen. If there's one player on the court who is adept at the pull up medium range jumper, I think it was the guy who took it. I think he thought he was going to be more open than he turned out to be.
If I'm being honest, I was not unhappy when I saw him upfake and move toward the basket. Didn't turn out to be a good shot, but it seemed like it could be at the start.
Again: rebounding. That's really all it was.
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mfk24
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 18, 2012 14:07:35 GMT -5
I love you, RDF, but these timeouts/no timeouts who-got-the-shot how-good-was-the-look discussion are so silly, and are always motivated by the result. The defense gets to draw up a play too, and by the way they kept us from getting any easy shots the entire game. Hollis hit a difficult, contested 3 of a drawn-up play vs. Alabama--was JTIII brilliant that day? There's also the matter of execution. JTIII's gotta lose about 8-9 more of these in a row, including by allowing six guys on the other side and by failing to foul with 38 seconds left before we've got enough information to form a consensus on stuff like this. A good offensive player, Otto, had the ball within his scoring range. He hesitated with the 3, tried to take it closer, was well-guarded, then forced a tough shot that missed. Happens all the time. +1. Otto is one of the players I want taking that shot. I disagree, if Otto had taken that 3, fine, miss or make, it's in his arsenal, it was wide open. But a tough pull up jumper off the dribble while being closely guarded....pass the damn ball! |
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,831
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Post by RDF on Mar 18, 2012 14:08:12 GMT -5
This game came down to rebounding. We can harp all we want about the last TO, Otto's shot, foul trouble for Henry, however, it is all irrelevant. If we had cleaned up the glass on our defensive end we win this one fairly easily. Great point. Always easy to look at end of the half/game scenarios but if you rebound better (especially off missed FT's  ) it's a different game altogether--but give NC State credit too. Thought Hoyas made them make some tough shots (Brown's shot was huge on the baseline--tough shot). |
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hoyazeke
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 18, 2012 14:08:32 GMT -5
I agree with JT3 on the rushed shots in the 1st half. Jason had a few and Jabril's 2nd 3 was a horrible shot. They only attempted 20 in the damn half? That's awful. His teams play better when they are aggressive (for the 1 mil time, not saying run and gun--saying aggressive) and in all honesty--this team was better today with Markel Starks in the game--due to fact he pushed the ball into the frontcourt and got them into their offense while Clark walked it up. Feel badly for Jason that he struggled today--but proud of him for getting a great look at end to give Hoyas a chance--that's all we can ask for as fans in that scenario. Sims yelling--he might have been upset that he took the foul since it was his 5th and wanted Otto to foul instead. Who knows-don't think it matters--heat of moment and just frustration. I disagree. Bril had just made a 3 all net and then from the exact same spot he shoots an airball. I think the defender hit his arm. Bril was complaining the entire way up the court. Which lead to an open 3 by Brown. That's what I was more upset about. Forget the shot and play D. But being that wide open he had to give an heat check. He shot a 3 ten feet short. Either he was fouled or the shot was blocked............. What I was Editeded off the most with was Hollis committing the foul with 1 min left and 12 secs on the shot clock. We were down 5. Play good D for 8-10 and get a freakin rebound. Or either foul immediately. Don't let 20 sec elapse off the clock and then go into foul mode................ |
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Hoya Rich
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by Hoya Rich on Mar 18, 2012 14:08:35 GMT -5
Ugh. Up 25-15 and then the wheels started coming off when we gave them the putback score off of a missed free throw. That was the beginning of the Wolfpack's run of confidence which carried them right to the end.
Hollis showed up today but also had three turnovers (2 walks, + 1 fateful step OOB) that were completely unforced. Not good for one of your most experienced vets to keep handing possession to the other team. But we don't stay in this game without him, and I'm proud of him for that.
Not sure why we resorted to chucking threes so early in the shot clock as much as we did in the second half; we sure could have used some easy shots and chances to draw fouls.
This season surpassed my expectations in every way, but it's hard for me to get past the way we let this one slip away. I felt like we were on the verge of blowing them out... and now, suddenly, its over.
Proud of the Hoyas. I hope they keep their heads up.
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 18, 2012 14:09:16 GMT -5
So now based on a 2 second clip of a senior yelling with emotion upon fouling out to end his collegiate career, we're having an extended discussion about Henry's disappointing attitude? This is like a parody of a message board. Big Dog, with all due respect, I don't think you're in any place to judge how people are feeling. You spewed negativity every 2 seconds in the second half. Assessing the chances of a late comeback based on watching hundreds of basketball games in my life and an awareness of the game and the season up to that point seems a bit more reasonable to me than concluding something about a stranger's character from two seconds of his lips moving without sound on TV. In any event, if the rule going forward for participation in game threads is to say things like "let's go Hoyas, we love you, we're still in this" over-and-over again until the final buzzer, I'll promise to you not to participate next year. I find it more interesting to assess what's happening in the game. |
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deacon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by deacon on Mar 18, 2012 14:13:09 GMT -5
More disappointed the season is over than mad about the outcome. The culture changed around the program this season and like RDF said, we made teams beat us and didn't give up when we seemed out of it. Losses like this always sting, but give some credit to N.C. State. They played a good game and deserved to win.
I'm extremely proud of this team and the staff. For those being overly critical, get some perspective. This team outperformed any of our expectations coming into the season and with the group of underclassmen on this team, the future is much brighter than any of us would've expected around this time last year.
I can't be upset at outcomes like this when the effort is there and its been there all season. We'll be back.
Hoya Saxa!!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 18, 2012 14:13:24 GMT -5
We cannot blame any single player for this loss. There were several things that could have happened that would have allowed Georgetown to win, but it didn't happen for them today. Despite poor play for much of the game, they had a chance to tie or win with less than a minute left. That's certainly an improvement over the last few years in the NCAA tournament.
Considering where we started, this was a pretty great season. 12-6 in the Big East, only one out of conference loss and advancing to the Round of 32 in the NCAA tournament (and almost winning) is nothing to laugh at when you consider that Georgetown started the season out of the Top 25 and on nobody's radar for a tournament bid.
We will be in a great position to build on this year's success, especially if Hollis Thompson decides to stick around for another year and/or we get Nerlens Noel to commit in the next few months. Even if Hollis leaves and we don't get Noel, the team is well positioned to build on this year's success. Porter and Whittington have only improved and will continue to do so. Even without Noel, we should have Moses and Tyler Adams back, plus improvement from Hopkins.
We have plenty of time to focus on next year. For now, I am thankful to Jason Clark and Henry Sims for their tough play and improvement over previous years, which really pushed this team forward this year. From a fan's perspective, it was a fun season to watch and I'm sad it's over, but we have good things to look forward to next season.
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hoyainspirit
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 4,196
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 18, 2012 14:13:38 GMT -5
In any event, if the rule going forward for participation in game threads is to say things like "let's go Hoyas, we love you, we're still in this" over-and-over again until the final buzzer, I'll promise to you not to participate next year. I find it more interesting to assess what's happening in the game. So do many on the board. Your input's appreciated. |
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Post by miracles87 on Mar 18, 2012 14:14:15 GMT -5
Tough loss. State D'd up pretty well, sorta reminiscent of WV earlier this year. Physical. The refs didn't really let Henry play, unfortunately, and Jason was quiet. Still, Georgetown played with composure down the stretch, and almost toughed it out. Ah well. I had definitely allowed myself to dream a little dream these last couple of days, so this hurts, but you have to look on the bright side. I truly enjoyed this year. Clark and Sims had Senior seasons to be proud of, the Hoyas were Top 20 the whole way, and there is plenty to be optimistic about going forward.
THANK YOU HENRY AND JASON!! HOYA SAXA!!
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Post by williambraskyiii on Mar 18, 2012 14:14:22 GMT -5
Henry deserved a chance at the end there. I'd be fired up too if I were him.
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Eurostar
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by Eurostar on Mar 18, 2012 14:15:49 GMT -5
Fouls:
Georgetown 23
NC State 14
Georgetown 26
VCU 16
Georgetown 21
Ohio 18
Georgetown 27
Davidson 20
When youre fouling at the end to stay in the game there is going to be some discrepancy, but we seem to get hosed by the officials in each of these losses.
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3xhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 405
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Post by 3xhoya on Mar 18, 2012 14:17:31 GMT -5
One thing that I feel could help going forward is something I know many people are hoping we look to recruit: a PG with the skills to break down the defense. In these late game situations down 2 it is huge to have a guy who can get to the rack.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Mar 18, 2012 14:19:10 GMT -5
Last year when we got down 20-17 to VCU, I called my friend and told him our season was over because I knew we were never going to fight back. Sure enough I was right.
I'm proud of this team, and we accomplished good things. Very disappointing end, but we had a fatal flaw of not having good point guard play. I hoped it wouldn't show up until the Sweet 16, but it was definitely going to show up.
Very good year, and I'm at peace with the way it ended.
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NCHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 18, 2012 14:20:48 GMT -5
The better team today won this game. The Hoyas season surpassed my expectations this season so I cannot be too disappointed. They also fought until the end, but the defensive rebounding today was a surprised weakness. I knew NCSU was big and athletic that would test us in the frontcourt, but I did not see such effective offensive rebounds coming against us. Also, their agility down low led to Henry's foul trouble which as debilitating to the team.
The last play was OK, I would have preferred Otto take the open 3, rather than dribbling toward traffic to take a more contested J. I am going to assume Hollis, which was our entire offense in the 2nd half, was completely covered. Overall, I thought we executed the last 2 minutes pretty well, you are not going to be perfect, but we did the right things to give ourselves a chance.
Unlike last season, it is a shame to see the season end today. I could have watched this team another month at least. They were a refreshed version of the Hoyas that are on the right path.
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Post by michaeldm9 on Mar 18, 2012 14:20:52 GMT -5
the only issue I have in the Game with JTIII coaching today is that he left Jabril and Hopkins in to long in the first half the lead to NC State late run at the half. That run cost us the game.
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