MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 4, 2012 21:14:57 GMT -5
Man, I want to give kudos to Hoya Prospectus for that great write-up comparing Otto to the other frosh. Next year, when Otto has an even larger role, we'll see him blossom compared to the other "top" freshmen. I fully expect Otto to have a 20-20 game next season. That, and see him get 1st team All-Big East as we again contend for the BE title. I'm not sure I agree with Prospectus' view that Drummond and Harkless have the most potential. Otto's game is totally different from those two but he has the "potential" to be able to affect games down the road perhaps more than any other Big East freshmen.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Mar 4, 2012 22:46:54 GMT -5
You people are short-selling Otto. Even if you count Jerian Grant, which is ridiculous, Otto, Henton and Harrison were clearly the most effective freshmen. Porter should have been on there before Drummond, Benahan, Collins and Harkless. HP LinkI am surprised that so many Hoya fans have been taken by surprise about this. There was always a good chance he was going to be excluded from the All Freshmen team simply because there were other frosh (even if they were inferior) putting up better or as good numbers...and they were starting. With 20 million Big East teams it may have been a little tough for the people voting to keep up with what Otto was doing. But no worry. They'll know his name soon enough You keep saying that, but you understand that the "people voting" are the BE coaches, right? My surprise is based on the fact that group (I thought) would be the least likely to look solely at stats and fail to appreciate Otto's game. And if we assume that the voting is fair/correct, then I am shocked that there are 7 freshman "better" than OP.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,419
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 4, 2012 23:22:41 GMT -5
I am surprised that so many Hoya fans have been taken by surprise about this. There was always a good chance he was going to be excluded from the All Freshmen team simply because there were other frosh (even if they were inferior) putting up better or as good numbers...and they were starting. With 20 million Big East teams it may have been a little tough for the people voting to keep up with what Otto was doing. But no worry. They'll know his name soon enough You keep saying that, but you understand that the "people voting" are the BE coaches, right? My surprise is based on the fact that group (I thought) would be the least likely to look solely at stats and fail to appreciate Otto's game. And if we assume that the voting is fair/correct, then I am shocked that there are 7 freshman "better" than OP. Coaches are number whores too. Especially when they have to consider guys from 18 teams. They probably relied on stats to make their decisions as well, too lazy and too busy to break down film or try to remember every last detail of how Otto affected a game. And by the way how many times did Otto win Big East rookie of the week? Once? Could that have been because he wasn't putting up big numbers on a regular basis? Probably. Those Rookie of the Week results probably should have been a clue on how these final results were going to turn out.
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hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Mar 5, 2012 12:06:44 GMT -5
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Mar 5, 2012 12:15:11 GMT -5
Congrats Jason - let's show them how to win with class all week long!
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 5, 2012 12:20:18 GMT -5
Hmmm...who looked more improved on Monday, Jack Cooley or Henry Sims?
Add another award to the list of Hoya snubs
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KirbyKeger
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by KirbyKeger on Mar 5, 2012 12:23:30 GMT -5
Again, can't stress enough how lucky we have been to have Jason as our senior leader this season. He has been a tremendous representative of the university, and I'm glad that the conference recognizes this. First Team All Big East and Big East Sportsmanship Award. I know the snubs have been unfortunate and frustrating, but I'm happy that Jason is finally getting the recognition that he deserves.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Mar 5, 2012 13:12:11 GMT -5
Jason Clark has deserved everything he's received this year in terms of award/praise. Good for him.
How old is Cooley? I thought he was a Soph? To me most improved should be for a kid who has been in league for years and not done much--(Sims type) and elevates his game. How do you not just figure that maybe Cooley is becoming a good player in his career? Just seems odd choice if he's young to give most improved. Oh well--maybe it's just me.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Mar 5, 2012 13:39:35 GMT -5
Jason Clark has deserved everything he's received this year in terms of award/praise. Good for him. How old is Cooley? I thought he was a Soph? To me most improved should be for a kid who has been in league for years and not done much--(Sims type) and elevates his game. How do you not just figure that maybe Cooley is becoming a good player in his career? Just seems odd choice if he's young to give most improved. Oh well--maybe it's just me. Hes not a soph Junior: www.und.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/cooley_jack00.html
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 5, 2012 14:37:02 GMT -5
Man, I want to give kudos to Hoya Prospectus for that great write-up comparing Otto to the other frosh. Next year, when Otto has an even larger role, we'll see him blossom compared to the other "top" freshmen. I fully expect Otto to have a 20-20 game next season. That, and see him get 1st team All-Big East as we again contend for the BE title. I'm not sure I agree with Prospectus' view that Drummond and Harkless have the most potential. Otto's game is totally different from those two but he has the "potential" to be able to affect games down the road perhaps more than any other Big East freshmen. I think Otto versus Harkless is debatable, certainly. I could definitely be convinced. I think Drummond has more potential, but after seeing him play this year, I'm less convinced he's going to get near it.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Mar 5, 2012 14:47:10 GMT -5
Jason Clark has deserved everything he's received this year in terms of award/praise. Good for him. How old is Cooley? I thought he was a Soph? To me most improved should be for a kid who has been in league for years and not done much--(Sims type) and elevates his game. How do you not just figure that maybe Cooley is becoming a good player in his career? Just seems odd choice if he's young to give most improved. Oh well--maybe it's just me. Hes not a soph Junior: www.und.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/cooley_jack00.htmlThanks--well he deserves it then. Good for Cooley.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 5, 2012 15:31:32 GMT -5
Wow, apparently Bill Self and Fred Hoiberg are co-coaches of the year in the B12 as voted by the league. It continues to makes you wonder why they even bother with the coaches voting on this thing. Frank Haith could very easily win national coach of the year.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 5, 2012 15:38:49 GMT -5
Wow, apparently Bill Self and Fred Hoiberg are co-coaches of the year in the B12 as voted by the league. It continues to makes you wonder why they even bother with the coaches voting on this thing. Frank Haith could very easily win national coach of the year. Which guy coaches at the team leaving the conference? Hoiberg did a nice job--but he's going Jerry Tarkanian route and being Father Flanigan (his best player was expelled in HS for cheating on tests and has all sorts of issues with understanding the definition of ownership-as in-you can't take what others own) and a few others were involved in sexual misconduct, drugs, etc....so it's like he's coaching low level talent-he is just taking problem children and winning games.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 5, 2012 15:41:52 GMT -5
Also, I bet a lot of coaches are divided on Haith. You can argue, as the press has, he's the only thing different between this year and last year, so viola! Haith made them this good!
I think a lot of coaches say instead, I wish I could walk into a first year with that many talented seniors.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 5, 2012 15:46:05 GMT -5
I won't complain if Otto can continue to float under the radar for a little while longer; like maybe until the Final Four? ;D
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 5, 2012 15:46:29 GMT -5
That's fair, but Haith's job is usually the type that gets rewarded over Self and Hoiberg.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by mapei on Mar 5, 2012 18:39:02 GMT -5
I know it's hard not to focus on the snubs, but Jason, wow! Remember, he didn't even make the preseason *third* team. And, frankly, I'm even prouder of the sportsmanship award. What a great representative of the university he has turned out to be.
Henry making the third team is also pretty amazing. Hollis would have been there, too, if his offensive production had stayed at his early-season level.
Hard to imagine that Otto isn't among the top 7 freshmen. I think it's because his excellence is a bit quiet - he's about incredibly sound fundamentals and consistency - and he didn't start for much of the year. But I'm confident that he will earn high praise before his Hoya career is done.
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Post by crashdavis on Mar 5, 2012 18:54:14 GMT -5
Consider me biased and a conspiracist, but I believe Haith not getting Big 12 COY has more to do with the other institutions and coaches being angry at Mizzou for leaving the conference. Sure that team is full of seniors, but so are a lot of other programs and to do what they have done this year (top 5 team, 30 wins, only 7 scholarship players who were 3* recruits, best returning post out for the year with knee injury) is pretty remarkable especially when you consider how Anderson left the program. Once word started leaking out that the Arkansas job was going to be open you could see evidence he had quit on a team that went 10-10 after Christmas and lost 4 of its last 5. With 8 scholarships he was going to have to fill by 2012-2013, the only person (literally) he was still recruiting at all in any class was Otto (who he happened to try to get to Fayetteville right after he officially took the job). And the toxic team chemistry he fostered (or alteast didn't do anything to stop) that to the collapse during the 2nd half of the season nearly resulted in the transfer in 3 of this year's starters.
Sorry to have gone on a rant, but not many people completely understand what Haith was walking into this season. For him to bring the remaining group together and have as much success as he's had this year is remarkable, especially considering he wasn't initially accepted with open arms by the fans and alumni. Now in my opinion Hoiberg definitely deserves credit for what he has done at Iowa State this year. If he was the lone winner and Haith was left off I would understand. However I don't understand how a coach whose team was picked to win the conference and returned a preseason All-American and another All-Big 12 player did a better job coaching this year than Haith.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 5, 2012 20:09:19 GMT -5
I wonder if the coaches really voted on this, or if they delegated their responsibilities to flunkies. I'm astonished that Otto didn't make the all-frosh team. I'd put him behind only Drummond and the St. John's kids. If Otto had been on a team which relied on him more, he would have put up 15-10 this year. If Jason and Henry can be recognized for their contributions to the Hoyas this year, how not Otto? It's mind boggling.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 5, 2012 20:35:49 GMT -5
I truly have enjoyed Jason's career. Marvelously entertaining. Congrats, Jason!
And kudos to Henry, too. Way to close it out.
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