Ottomatic
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 378
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Post by Ottomatic on Mar 3, 2012 18:58:49 GMT -5
I want to see Jabril get another chance at Pitt and ashton gibbs. See what happens!
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swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,137
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Post by swhoya on Mar 3, 2012 19:18:07 GMT -5
Why do people think it's bad? You want to do something--prove it. What better way to prove it then to have opportunity to beat teams who EVERYONE on planet thinks you can't beat (Pitt, Cincy, Cuse...). If you want to win anything of importance-you have to beat tough/good teams. I think Pitt is awful. There is no reason to lose to them again. That would be humiliating and real knock against III if he can't beat them. Cincy is tough--but Hoyas can play with them and win that game. Cuse has never won the BET as a 1 seed--why not let history repeat itself and take them out? Get through that--and you will win the BET. Simple as that. You win those games--you'll win BET against whomever comes out of other side. Tired of the scared attitude and it starts at top--you have to start attacking/delivering blows and quit waiting to "counter". III is the friggin "John Ruiz" of coaching against pressure and that's got to end. Between tonight/Wednesday--this team has to: 1. Address dumb turnovers (Trawick's walking the baseline after Marquette turnover is inexcusable....the stupid passes against press) 2. Nate Lubick's FT stroke-tear that thing down and make him shoot FT' differently. What he's doing now isn't working, will never work and shouldn't work. The guy's stroke makes Vernon Macklin look like Calvin Murphy. (lil Hoyas--look up Calvin's FT percentage) 3. If one guy stands straight up on defense (Starks is worst offender but Henry did it time/time again in post against ground ridden Gardner) hit them in stomach with a ball. Get down in a STANCE and defend someone. Hoyas are a good-not great defensive team because great defense travels with you on road--this team has gotten shredded on defense in 3 of past 4 road losses. 4. Tell Starks-if you don't improve--we'll find someone who can do what you aren't. Simple. Worked for Charles Smith--and he responded. Turnovers will happen but the type he gets are out of pure terror. Be aggressive and assertive with the ball. Just so timid/weak. 5. Scrap the Pee Wee League press offense and come up with something that actually has a chance of advancing/moving forward and more importantly--getting numbers/transition points off the attack. If you never look to attack--nobody will take their press off. Agree with the sentiment that to win the BE Tourney. We were going to have to go through some good teams no matter what. I would have preferred the double bye, but the who part of the equation doesn't bother me. This just means we have to win one more game. I've commented elsewhere on the Starks bashing, and while on the season his inconsistent play has been an issue (not as large as it's made out to be, but it is an area for improvement), I just feel like we must have watched two different games. It's like having cars speed down your road, getting hit by a bicyclist, and then complaining about...the cars. Starks has been more inconsistent, but in this game, it's Jason that hurt us, so why the vitrol towards Starks?
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KirbyKeger
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,106
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Post by KirbyKeger on Mar 3, 2012 19:26:24 GMT -5
The reason for the Starks criticism is simple: he hasn't been adding much value to the team lately. Everyone on here acknowledges that Jason had a really brutal game today. No doubt about it. Nobody is blaming Starks for the loss either. This game, however, was a tipping point in the sense that it made people really question if Markel is deserving of 20 minutes a game moving forward. All of his weaknesses were fully on display.
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swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,137
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Post by swhoya on Mar 3, 2012 19:36:36 GMT -5
I'd disagree with whether or not there are those that blame Starks.
Regardless, it's just that the unceasing attention on him is a bit overdone. If you go back and look at the season prediction threads that everyone was rehashing this last week, it was just awesome to see how much guys like Jason, Henry, the freshmen, all exceeded expectations. Starks unfortunately hasn't had that sort of a leap (although there have been flashes at times), but I don't think he's hurt us to the extent that others here imply. At some point in the season, the whipping boy has alternately been Nate, Henry, Hollis, or Starks. The problem I have with this attitude is that all of those guys play significant minutes and we've WON. Not every game, but we have surpassed the wildest of expectations. So if one of those guys is so bad, how is it we've managed to win? And has Jason ever looked that much better at the press than Starks? Not to my eye.
Starks is not the stud on this team yet. We all recognize that. But to blame him for keeping us from becoming, what, not the very best team in the country? Very few, if any, teams start 5 absolute studs. It just doesn't happen. Why focus so much on Starks not being quite there yet? If Jason or Henry had stepped up more this game, would Starks have mattered at all?
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,992
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Post by kghoya on Mar 3, 2012 19:41:35 GMT -5
Georgetown plays a point guard that can't handle the ball against the press. That's a problem right now and going forward.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Mar 3, 2012 19:47:20 GMT -5
What KG said....I can handle Starks missing wide open looks. I can handle, a little bit, him not being defensively sound as of yet.
But not handling the ball against the press is troublesome. FREEZING UP against the press, for a point guard, is downright unacceptable. Ballhandling is the one thing a pg HAS to do well. And to play scared? That's cause for benching, period.
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Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,679
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Post by Dhall on Mar 3, 2012 19:50:01 GMT -5
Very proud of our team going 8-1 at home this year but we have not shown that we can win consistently on the road. The thing is, neither has any other BE team other than Cuse. So this tourney will be decided by who has the mental toughness to pull out games on a neutral court. In the BE and NCAA I hope we live and die with our upperclassmen and Otto. I'm not expecting much from anyone else, so those guys need to be aggressive and set the tone on both ends.
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swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,137
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Post by swhoya on Mar 3, 2012 19:55:29 GMT -5
How did Jason do any differently? Just looking at the box score, JC had 8 TOs and Markel had 1 (I would have thought it was more than that). They both looked scared. Should Jason have sat as well?
I just wonder what anyone wants done differently. Starks lost his starting position. His minutes HAVE decreased. I like Trawick, but for whatever reason, he doesn't get as many minutes. Next season that will probably change, but unless you want Jason running 40 minutes a game, Starks has to play some, so this whole "elevate your game or sit" thing that people want III to pull is just hollow.
If Starks were a different player maybe we would be top 5. But he's not. If Sims didn't go 2-7 or 2-11 in a couple of games, we might have won a few more. Starks has given us some good games and generally has been steady, and sometimes he's been bad. I just don't see him as having been the catalyst for this or any other loss.
Okay, I've said my piece on it, I'll move on.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 3, 2012 19:58:08 GMT -5
DePaul is just clobbering Seton Hall. We lost the double bye in part because of our loss to Seton Hall. We sort of deserved it. Seton Hall is pretty awful.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Mar 3, 2012 20:02:21 GMT -5
SW,
Do you understand that Jason has to play pg because Markel can't....The box score is wrong, Starks had at least 4 to's today. Markel was so shaky in the first half that Jason's rest had to be cut short. Markel's inability to run the offense has put a strain on our rotation....It's a trickle down effect. Sorry, Markel had plenty to do with this loss.
And you can go through my history. Before the season, I was one of the biggest Markel fans on this board
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,599
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Post by guru on Mar 3, 2012 20:16:18 GMT -5
DePaul is just clobbering Seton Hall. We lost the double bye in part because of our loss to Seton Hall. We sort of deserved it. Seton Hall is pretty awful. Yep, we made our bed. The loss to Cincy at home was a killer too. Drats.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,419
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Post by the_way on Mar 3, 2012 20:41:31 GMT -5
Given all of the new players we had this year and after losing Wright and Freeman, i'll take a 5 seed in the BET, being ranked in the top 25 and having an assured spot in the NCAA's.
I'm proud of the guys.
We'll be fine.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 3, 2012 21:11:35 GMT -5
I am excited for the Hoya's Run Of Revenge! I want the guys to approach each game with something to prove starting with Pitt. Let's play Pitt, Cincy, Cuse, MU. That would be fantastic and a great opportunity.
My only real concern is our defense outside of the Verizon Center. It has not been solid to say the least. Against PC and SU it was very good. Against MU today it was mediocre, lots of fouls and some bad turnovers for which the defense really cannot be held accountable against what I consider the best BE offense. The Pitt and SHU are the most disturbing. I am thinking SHU was caused by a fluky SHU shooting performance in a must win game for them. The Pitt game - I dunno. That is why I want another shot at those bums. I want the hoyas to prove that was just a weird no show on defense.
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,992
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Post by kghoya on Mar 3, 2012 21:50:02 GMT -5
How did Jason do any differently? Just looking at the box score, JC had 8 TOs and Markel had 1 (I would have thought it was more than that). They both looked scared. Should Jason have sat as well? I just wonder what anyone wants done differently. Starks lost his starting position. His minutes HAVE decreased. I like Trawick, but for whatever reason, he doesn't get as many minutes. Next season that will probably change, but unless you want Jason running 40 minutes a game, Starks has to play some, so this whole "elevate your game or sit" thing that people want III to pull is just hollow. If Starks were a different player maybe we would be top 5. But he's not. If Sims didn't go 2-7 or 2-11 in a couple of games, we might have won a few more. Starks has given us some good games and generally has been steady, and sometimes he's been bad. I just don't see him as having been the catalyst for this or any other loss. Okay, I've said my piece on it, I'll move on. Jason isn't a point guard and he's not supposed to be the point guard for THIS team. That's the difference. I think it's pretty obvious. This problem only gets worse next season unless they recruit another guy. Also for anybody wondering - DSR isn't a point. I've seen him live last summer and this winter.
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Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,679
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Post by Dhall on Mar 3, 2012 21:50:18 GMT -5
ESPN just listed us as the 4 seed. This was Sportscenter 5 minutes ago.
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austintex
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 184
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Post by austintex on Mar 3, 2012 22:12:54 GMT -5
Big picture. We were picked to finish tenth. We finished fifth. Now let's continue to prove some people wrong. Even better, we finished in a three-way tie for fourth. The Big East tiebreaker may determine conference tourney seedings, but that's all it does.
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sead43
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 796
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Post by sead43 on Mar 3, 2012 22:21:04 GMT -5
the field is set. we get winner of St. John's-Pitt.
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tjm62
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 855
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Post by tjm62 on Mar 3, 2012 22:30:34 GMT -5
ESPN just listed us as the 4 seed. This was Sportscenter 5 minutes ago. Someone please check if this makes sense: here's my try Georgetown, South Florida, and Cincy are all tied at 12-6. BET 3 way tie breaker scenarios are as follows: (http://www.bigeast.org/fls/19400/pdfs/men_basketball/tie-breaker10.pdf) 1. A) Teams are viewed as a “mini-conference” when comparing head-to-head results. The team with the best record (as determined by winning percentage, even if unequal games) vs. the other teams in the mini-conference gains the advantage.All three teams are 1-1 against the other two, for the same winning percentageIf only two teams have the same best winning percentage in the mini-conference, the higher seed goes to the team winning the head-to-head series. If the two teams split their two games, then proceed to Step 2 under Two-Way ties. To seed the remaining team(s) in this mini-conference, proceed to Paragraph B below. If three or more (but not all) teams have the same best winning percentage in the original mini-conference, then those tied teams create a new mini-conference and follow the same procedures as at the beginning of this paragraph. If all teams in the mini-conference have the same mini-conference record, proceed to Step 2 below.Compare each team’s record vs. the team or group of tied teams occupying the highest position in the standings. Continue down through the standings until one team gains an advantage. Syracuse: All teams 0-1 Marquette: Cincy 1-0, Georgetown 1-1, USF 0-1 HOWEVER, GEORGETOWN IS NOT PENALIZED BECAUSE: "Fewer losses do not prevail if the team(s) have the same number of wins, but the team with fewer games could equal or surpass the loss total of the other tied teams." SO WE CONTINUE TO NOTRE DAME: Georgetown 1-0 Cincy 1-0 USF 0-1 But this is not one team gaining an advantage! So we move to Louisville Georgetown 1-0 Cincy 1-0 USF 1-0 On to WVU All three teams lost to WVU. On to SETON HALL + UCONN: Gtown 1-1 Cincy 2-0 USF 1-1 This would give Cincy the #4 Seed. Georgetown then has the tiebreaker with USF for #5, which occurs: B) After the top team in a mini-conference is determined, the next team is ranked by its record in the original mini-conference. If there are any remaining teams tied by their record in the miniconference, then head-to-head results will determine the higher seed. If the teams split two games, then proceed back to the two-way tie breaking procedure. If there are at least three teams remaining tied by their record in the mini-conference, they would then form a new mini-conference and follow the procedure again at the beginning of Step 1 (Multiple-Team Tie).
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tjm62
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 855
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Post by tjm62 on Mar 3, 2012 22:34:05 GMT -5
If I was able to interpret the above correctly, it was not actually losing to Cincy that cost us, but WHO we lost to (Cuse, WVU, and SHU) that killed us in the end.
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sead43
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 796
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Post by sead43 on Mar 3, 2012 22:34:26 GMT -5
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