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Post by grokamok on Feb 29, 2012 15:04:23 GMT -5
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by seaweed on Feb 29, 2012 15:29:23 GMT -5
awards? we don't need no stinking awards
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Feb 29, 2012 15:35:52 GMT -5
It is truly amazing at how Coach Hypocritzki continues to do more with so much less talent than every other coach in the ACC.
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hoyaclap
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by hoyaclap on Feb 29, 2012 15:39:54 GMT -5
I need someone to explain to me why Brey would get any consideration for COY over JTIII. I understand Boeheim and even Williams a bit, but not Brey.
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by alleninxis on Feb 29, 2012 16:04:52 GMT -5
I have not really cared much about III winning COY this season. But if they want to retroactively present him with the 2007 award, that'd be fine by me.
One thing that I hope to see: Jason Clark making 1st Team All BE. He deserves it.
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Post by tigerhoya3 on Feb 29, 2012 16:04:59 GMT -5
I need someone to explain to me why Brey would get any consideration for COY over JTIII. I understand Boeheim and even Williams a bit, but not Brey. I guess the argument for those voters is that although Georgetown was picked preseason #10 in the Big East, Notre Dame was picked preseason #9 in Big East AND lost its best player Tim Abromaitis for the season in November. Also, it seems those voters are giving Brey credit for what Notre Dame has done the entire Big East season instead of just the last two games.
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Post by Offsidz on Feb 29, 2012 16:32:44 GMT -5
The fact that NOT even one of the ESPN college b'ball analysts/experts thinks that JTIII is deserving of the COY award, is a complete disgrace. It just shows that if you're not part of, or liked by the "Ol' Boys Club", it doesn't matter how good of a year a coach and his team had, they will NOT get acknowledged for it. It's shameful that grown adults aren't big enough to call it as it, no matter what their personal feelings are. I can completely understand Jim Boeheim receiving votes, but to vote for Mike Brey over JTIII is completely appalling and just reeks of personal biases.
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b52legend
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Post by b52legend on Feb 29, 2012 16:42:07 GMT -5
The article today regarding UCLA got me thinking a lot about coach of the year honors in general before I even saw this ESPN vote. The question is, what criteria should be used in determining who is coach of the year, and how should we be evaluating coaches generally?
Player of the year honors are easy. A player is evaluated by what they do on the court. You look at their stats.
If the same criteria is applied to coaches, then wins and losses should be all that matters. Some may argue that this shouldn't be the case, and coaches should be evaluated based on what they are able to do with the players they have. But coaches are fully responsible for recruiting as well. Recruiting plays perhaps as big of a role in modern day college coaching as one's ability to diagram a play. So perhaps the coach of the year really is simply the coach who is able to win the most games. That is ultimately their primary task as coaches.
However, the UCLA piece today highlighted that a college coach's duties (and responsibilities) extend beyond the product on the basketball floor. They are largely given the task of guiding a group of young men through their college years. Any college coach who shirks this task will face repurcussions from the media (see UCLA) and even the NCAA (see UCONN).
So when someone speaks of who deserves coach of the year, what are they even talking about? What should be the criteria? Just questions I have been pondering -- would like to know others thoughts.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Feb 29, 2012 17:05:22 GMT -5
Well that Grantland writer wants JTIII for national COY, but I think Grantland writers have more independence from the ESPN mothership (that's why Simmons created it right?).
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Feb 29, 2012 17:07:27 GMT -5
The article today regarding UCLA got me thinking a lot about coach of the year honors in general before I even saw this ESPN vote. The question is, what criteria should be used in determining who is coach of the year, and how should we be evaluating coaches generally? Player of the year honors are easy. A player is evaluated by what they do on the court. You look at their stats. If the same criteria is applied to coaches, then wins and losses should be all that matters. Some may argue that this shouldn't be the case, and coaches should be evaluated based on what they are able to do with the players they have. But coaches are fully responsible for recruiting as well. Recruiting plays perhaps as big of a role in modern day college coaching as one's ability to diagram a play. So perhaps the coach of the year really is simply the coach who is able to win the most games. That is ultimately their primary task as coaches. However, the UCLA piece today highlighted that a college coach's duties (and responsibilities) extend beyond the product on the basketball floor. They are largely given the task of guiding a group of young men through their college years. Any college coach who shirks this task will face repurcussions from the media (see UCLA) and even the NCAA (see UCONN). So when someone speaks of who deserves coach of the year, what are they even talking about? What should be the criteria? Just questions I have been pondering -- would like to know others thoughts. No, it shouldn't be about just wins and losses. Say Cuse won 27 games this year with the talent on that team, and USF won 23 games with the talent on that team. If wins and losses are all that matters, then you have to give it to Cuse, which would ignore a whole host of factors.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Feb 29, 2012 17:21:35 GMT -5
Unlike professional sports, college coaches get to evaluate, recruit and ultimately pick their own players and that is a huge part of their success or failure. They make their own beds, good and bad. So if someone is not expected to do well, that's because they've not recruited or planned well. Or they just don't have good enough facilities
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Feb 29, 2012 17:37:54 GMT -5
Unlike professional sports, college coaches get to evaluate, recruit and ultimately pick their own players and that is a huge part of their success or failure. They make their own beds, good and bad. So if someone is not expected to do well, that's because they've not recruited or planned well. Or they just don't have good enough facilities That's why it's coach of the year, not executive of the year, or recruiter of the year.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 29, 2012 17:47:26 GMT -5
Unlike professional sports, college coaches get to evaluate, recruit and ultimately pick their own players and that is a huge part of their success or failure. They make their own beds, good and bad. So if someone is not expected to do well, that's because they've not recruited or planned well. Or they just don't have good enough facilities Unfortunately, they don't get to pick their own players. Players have to pick them, too. I'm sure III would pick Noel if he could.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Feb 29, 2012 18:39:33 GMT -5
Kc - you're right, it's coach of the year and "not coach who did better than expected this year award"
Hoyainspirit - all of the coaches we are talking about picked all of the players on their teams
In some places 4th place gets an award, but that's not what most people believe.
It's also possible that the people who picked us 10th and ND 9th just had no idea about the talent levels.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 29, 2012 19:29:40 GMT -5
I think the concept by giving it to the Coach who overachieves based on preseason expectations is an attempt by people to root out how much a teams success is due to coaching and now the players.
Presumably if a team out strips their preseason expectations it's because the coach got more out of them than their talent level would indicate perhaps by using them in a innovative way.
People point to Boehiem as a potential coach of the year due to only losing 1 game despite the circus surrounding the program. Well to that I say 1) Cuse was picked 1st so they should have only at max had 2-3 more loses in conference than he currently does. And he should have gone undefeated against that pathetic out of conference schedule 2) they got very lucky not to pick up a couple extra loses. So in my mind he did exactly what he was supposed to do. 3) The distractions were very much his fault and the poor way he handled the situation should remove him from consideration because I think character and developing character is a big part of coaching. Jimmy fails on this level.
I do believe it should be given to the coach who does the best coaching and that recruiting is separate from coaching. It's part of the head coaches job but that doesn't make it coaching.
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Madgesdiq
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Post by Madgesdiq on Feb 29, 2012 19:44:02 GMT -5
I need someone to explain to me why Brey would get any consideration for COY over JTIII. I understand Boeheim and even Williams a bit, but not Brey. Agreed. Brey shouldn't even be under consideration.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 29, 2012 20:40:22 GMT -5
JT3 BIGEAST COY AND MAYBE JUST MAYBE OTTO SNEAKS IN A ROY BUT at least rookie team for sure otherwise NOONES BEEN WATCHING. nope jason first team should be but / ?? we will see ONLY HONOR THAT WOULD COUNT is win the big east championship.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 29, 2012 20:41:33 GMT -5
ooo wowoww otto for sixth man yup the old pat ewing award you never know
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 29, 2012 23:10:21 GMT -5
These awards are meaningless. Doesn't Brey have more COY awards than NCAA wins at this point? Just when it looked early in the season like this might finally be the year the ND administration would be able to start seriously considering upgrading from Brey, he saves his own hide again with an illusory run that, as usual, has the wheels coming off just as we enter March.
As for JTIII, I think the lack of support for his candidacy reflects in part the almost universal respect he commands in the profession. Sure, we may have been picked 10th to start the season, but this is Georgetown and this is a Thompson, so is it really all that surprising that they've turned out to be this good? [that's how the thinking goes]
Why hasn't anybody mentioned Stan Heath by the way?
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on Feb 29, 2012 23:58:21 GMT -5
Picking Stan Heath would require one to look beyond the regularly available information that ESPN has and actually looking at his season as a whole as a coach. I don't get how any program (Syracuse) can have a COY if their program went against regulations during a season.
I also could have sworn our slaughtering of ND kicked Brey off the bandwagon.
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