TBird41
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 11:48:00 GMT -5
Post by TBird41 on Jan 23, 2012 11:48:00 GMT -5
I didn't want to make the Presidential Election thread the catch all political thread it seems to be, so I thought I'd start a new one.
I assume other conservative/Republican posters agree with me on this, so I'd like to know what the liberal/Democratic posters think about the fact that the Senate hasn't passed a budget in more than 3 years and the Senate Democrats, despite controlling the Senate, haven't OFFERED a budget in almost 3 years.
Say what you want about the House Republicans, and blame the Republicans / Tea Party for the dysfunction in Washington, but they weren't afraid to put their budget on paper. How can you negotiate with someone that isn't willing to put their offer on paper?
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TC
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 12:15:26 GMT -5
Post by TC on Jan 23, 2012 12:15:26 GMT -5
So, if I have this straight, the problem is that the Senate Democrats are intransigent and hard to negotiate with?
Good lord. The point above might sound good as a talking point, but the Senate Democrats would sell anyone out if they think they could negotiate a deal.
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kchoya
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 12:17:58 GMT -5
Post by kchoya on Jan 23, 2012 12:17:58 GMT -5
So, if I have this straight, the problem is that the Senate Democrats are intransigent and hard to negotiate with? Good lord. The point above might sound good as a talking point, but the Senate Democrats would sell anyone out if they think they could negotiate a deal. Amazing how the GOP controls 1/2 of 1/3 of the government, and yet they are the source of all that is rotten in DC (ignoring the first two years of TOTUS's term).
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GUJook97
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 12:22:09 GMT -5
Post by GUJook97 on Jan 23, 2012 12:22:09 GMT -5
Yep, that is how it works. When you control the House and at least 40 seats in the Senate, and your whole purpose in being is to shut down government, then yes, you are the source of all that is rotten in DC.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jan 23, 2012 12:26:03 GMT -5
1. The Senate is dysfunctional, period. The only thing bipartisan in the Senate is the inability to do anything. No one wants to negotiate and when they have tried the House Republicans undercut the position of the Senate Republicans. No one can deliver the Republicans to vote for any compromise.
2. The issue blocking any budget agreement is extension of the Bush tax cuts and Republicans are not willing to consider any compromise. The spending issues could be resolved fairly easily, but not the tax hole.
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TBird41
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 12:31:33 GMT -5
Post by TBird41 on Jan 23, 2012 12:31:33 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me how the Republicans are preventing the Senate Democrats from offering (not passing, OFFERING) a budget?
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Boz
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 12:37:59 GMT -5
Post by Boz on Jan 23, 2012 12:37:59 GMT -5
By using the dark side of the Force?
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GUJook97
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 12:50:41 GMT -5
Post by GUJook97 on Jan 23, 2012 12:50:41 GMT -5
Because its pointless. There hasnt been anything close to a budget passed in years. It's quite evident that a Dem budget is a non-starter. The Reps couldnt even agree to a compromise for 2 months negotiated by their own party. You think the Senate should craft 2,200 page budget for the entire govt just to start a negotiation? Why? You think that is what is holding up the compromise budget process? Highly unlikely.
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TC
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 12:54:29 GMT -5
Post by TC on Jan 23, 2012 12:54:29 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me how the Republicans are preventing the Senate Democrats from offering (not passing, OFFERING) a budget? Do you think there's a way around the tax revenue issue? Otherwise, this is all problems with our national TPS reports.
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EasyEd
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 13:17:35 GMT -5
Post by EasyEd on Jan 23, 2012 13:17:35 GMT -5
Pretty lame non-answers to the question why the Senate Democrats have not offered a budget.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jan 23, 2012 13:24:31 GMT -5
They don't propose a budget because they are not stupid. Republicans would do to it the same thing that Democrats did to the Ryan proposal and that Republicans have done to anything from the Administration - pick out parts of it out of context and throw money into emotionally overwrought mischaracterizations of them.
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GUJook97
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 13:27:00 GMT -5
Post by GUJook97 on Jan 23, 2012 13:27:00 GMT -5
Pretty lame non-answers to the question why the Senate Democrats have not offered a budget. What is the reason you think? They hate America? They are scared?
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DFW HOYA
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 13:36:37 GMT -5
Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 23, 2012 13:36:37 GMT -5
Pretty lame non-answers to the question why the Senate Democrats have not offered a budget. Neither party wants to exercise leadership because it comes at a price. It is too easy to spend money, climb the moral high horse against one's opponents, and leave the details to someone else. Whether it's Boehner or Pelosi, the boat is taking on water and they're all fighting over table settings at the dining room. I don't always agree with Ron Paul, but he is absolutely on target that unfettered spending has consequences for the future. Few in Congress in either party have the moral courage or the personal conviction to do anything about it.
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Boz
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 13:46:07 GMT -5
Post by Boz on Jan 23, 2012 13:46:07 GMT -5
Pretty lame non-answers to the question why the Senate Democrats have not offered a budget. What is the reason you think? They hate America? They are scared? Well, so far the board has offered up: "Gotcha' Dad. Can't win. Don't Try." (jook) and "They're all going to laugh at you!!" (bmartin) as reasons why the Democrats shouldn't propose a budget. If you're satisfied with those, that's fine with me. Not exactly what I'd call leadership, but that's me. I agree with TC, though, that nothing will get done until there is some kind of negotiated compromise on taxes and tax reform. But if the Senate Democrats believe in what they say about what is required in terms of revenue generation, then why not lay that out in a budget proposal? Except for the reasons above. Or maybe for the reason that it is an election year (though that doesn't explain the last three years, just a reason why nothing will get done this year). Senate Dems are defending a lot of turf, a lot more than Republicans and also, the president is trying to get re-elected. Even if Harry Reid wanted to, and he doesn't, I doubt the White House would sit back and watch and not do everything they could to stop it if the Senate Democrats said they wanted to introduce a budget. I'll agree with bmartin on one thing: It's a far better political weapon to attack the other side for wanting to throw grandma off a cliff than to try to defend anything you've proposed. But again, it's hardly what I would call leadership. EDIT: Just read DFW's post and have to agree somewhat that Senate Republicans also have little to no interest in taking the ball and trying to advance it.
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 13:55:42 GMT -5
Post by AustinHoya03 on Jan 23, 2012 13:55:42 GMT -5
I don't always agree with Ron Paul, but he is absolutely on target that unfettered spending has consequences for the future. Few in Congress in either party have the moral courage or the personal conviction to do anything about it. If only there were a candidate with similar beliefs who will be on the 2012 general election ballot... www.garyjohnson2012.com/front
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GUJook97
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 13:56:51 GMT -5
Post by GUJook97 on Jan 23, 2012 13:56:51 GMT -5
The budget process is broken on both sides. I agree that Senate Dems should do more, but I hardly think its a lame excuse not to offer a comprehensive, government-wide budget when, like we have said, 1) there is a non-starter on revenue and 2) not only can Congress not pass annual pieces of the budget, they cant even pass monthly pieces of the budget. Time is better spent trying to going to bat on different issues. I honestly dont think they are holding back the budget because they are wimps or something like that.
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kchoya
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 15:05:36 GMT -5
Post by kchoya on Jan 23, 2012 15:05:36 GMT -5
They don't propose a budget because they are not stupid. Republicans would do to it the same thing that Democrats did to the Ryan proposal and that Republicans have done to anything from the Administration - pick out parts of it out of context and throw money into emotionally overwrought mischaracterizations of them. I'll agree with bmartin on one thing: It's a far better political weapon to attack the other side for wanting to throw grandma off a cliff than to try to defend anything you've proposed. Of course, no one woudl stoop so low as to actually suggest that the GOP literally wants to throw grandma off a cliff. www.nationalreview.com/corner/267598/new-ad-paul-ryan-pushes-granny-cliff-literally-andrew-stiles(probably what Boz had in mind)
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The Stig
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 19:25:28 GMT -5
Post by The Stig on Jan 23, 2012 19:25:28 GMT -5
Why haven't the Senate Dems proposed a budget? Probably because the Senate Dems can't all agree on anything beyond the color of the sky. Organizing the Senate Dems is like herding cats. An inspirational leader could help them get their act together, but Obama has kept Congress at arm's length ever since he was inaugurated and Reid, while actually quite effective in backroom deals, ain't exactly what you call inspiring.
That said, it's worth noting that "All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills." (Article 1, Section 7)
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Elvado
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 19:56:20 GMT -5
Post by Elvado on Jan 23, 2012 19:56:20 GMT -5
President Obama (with his desultory record) intends to run against the Republican Congress and gridlock. Hence it is Democrat 101 to actually have Budget gridlock. Rather than own a budget, they will carp about gridlock. Just might work too.
T minus 363
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Budget
Jan 23, 2012 20:24:26 GMT -5
Post by strummer8526 on Jan 23, 2012 20:24:26 GMT -5
They don't propose a budget because they are not stupid. Republicans would do to it the same thing that Democrats did to the Ryan proposal and that Republicans have done to anything from the Administration - pick out parts of it out of context and throw money into emotionally overwrought mischaracterizations of them. I'll agree with bmartin on one thing: It's a far better political weapon to attack the other side for wanting to throw grandma off a cliff than to try to defend anything you've proposed. Of course, no one woudl stoop so low as to actually suggest that the GOP literally wants to throw grandma off a cliff. www.nationalreview.com/corner/267598/new-ad-paul-ryan-pushes-granny-cliff-literally-andrew-stiles(probably what Boz had in mind) I don't care what position that ad is taking—it is the greatest thing I have ever seen.
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