hsb
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Post by hsb on Jan 26, 2012 17:44:10 GMT -5
Gotta weigh back in.
While I love defense and know that lotsa long lean speedy players will play it better on average than a 6'6" 250 lb 3/4, we need guys who can score also (as long as they can guard somebody). Jenkins has done both against top notch competition as well as anyone in recent hs memory so he should be on our radar.
Why can't we have a Larry Johnson (who also happened to be 6'6" 250) as long as we have a Stacey Augmon and Greg Anthony to help out on the defensive end?
A team of Stacey Augmons would be a disaster.
As an aside, I saw Austin Rivers play against Md last night. . . he was the No 1 hs in the US?!!. . .not even close . . . so I agree, rankings can be deceptive which is why I was pitching Jenkins on what he was actually doing on the court not on what some rankings said he was doing.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Jan 26, 2012 17:47:46 GMT -5
I'll gladly take all the Larry Johnson's, Charles Barkley's and Mike Sweetney's the world has to offer.
those guys were different than the kids we're discussing. a lot different. If Kris Jenkins is as explosive as Larry Johnson, hey..sign me up. Unfortunately, not the case.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 26, 2012 17:48:02 GMT -5
SF-there is room for a Wallace and especially a Sweetney--people need to quit acting like he was some stiff-Tony Parker and BJ Anya's couldn't hold his jock--Sweetney was an elite recruit. He also played in a more open style of play. Mike Sweetney in a III system is going to be utilized a lot different and while I think he'd be just fine, it would be a different role. If we're talking specific players, I think Parker is more than skilled enough to offset any physical disadvantage. Not sure Anya is, but I've only seen each of them really play once. Perhaps it's more accurate to say I wouldn't recruit guys who won't play in a half court game? I have no issues with run or having guys who run. But I don't want players who aren't skilled enough to play halfcourt, aren't disciplined enough to play halfcourt, or aren't open and hardworking enough to improve. Vern ended up in the league, but part of what got him there was the wake-up call of having to transfer. He's admitted he didn't work at GU -- and when he got to Florida he realized that it was true everywhere -- you have to work to make it. Highly athletic, unskilled players aren't going to be good enough. Neither are a bunch of highly unathletic, skilled players, but I think we agree there. Agree. People may call it defeatist, but while I agree our style exacerbates the situation, I also think that we're starting -- no matter our style -- at a disadvantage to certain schools. I think there's a strategic advantage in recruiting a slightly different player across the board -- one that like school/wants to graduate. Skilled big men versus the Terrance Jennings types. Combo guards who want to learn some point. It doesn't mean you don't go after the big players, but I honestly think our different style has netted certain players -- Greg Monroe is a great example. Agree. I would never want a team of Wallace's. They'd play above their weight but it wouldn't be pretty at times. I'm just saying that the entire roster not need be -- and even shouldn't be -- the same players.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 26, 2012 17:55:19 GMT -5
I do think several things on recruiting:
1) Skills (shooting, footwork, low post moves) are easier to improve than tools (quickness, jumping, height)
2) Tools translate better to defense than offense
3) It makes sense to weight tools (and defense) greater than skills (and offense) assuming you can teach the latter more than the former
In that vein, I generally agree with you. Recruit height, athleticism, and work ethic and you can get the rest.
4) But I also think that basketball is a team sport, and by gameplanning you can emphasize positives and cover for negatives.
For example, if you get a Nerlens Noel, you can get a more offensive minded four to stand next to him because he will erase some mistakes. If you have a Roy Hibbert, your guards can be shooters because he will create shots for them and cover their D mistakes.
5) Leading to my conclusion - get me a center than defends the rim and I will not complain about anything else.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 26, 2012 19:04:52 GMT -5
Gotta weigh back in. While I love defense and know that lotsa long lean speedy players will play it better on average than a 6'6" 250 lb 3/4, we need guys who can score also (as long as they can guard somebody). Jenkins has done both against top notch competition as well as anyone in recent hs memory so he should be on our radar. Why can't we have a Larry Johnson (who also happened to be 6'6" 250) as long as we have a Stacey Augmon and Greg Anthony to help out on the defensive end? A team of Stacey Augmons would be a disaster. As an aside, I saw Austin Rivers play against Md last night. . . he was the No 1 hs in the US?!!. . .not even close . . . so I agree, rankings can be deceptive which is why I was pitching Jenkins on what he was actually doing on the court not on what some rankings said he was doing. Hahaha..."weigh back in". That's the only accurate thing about your comparison: his weight. He's not a legit 6'6 either. These delusional comparisons need to stop. Take off the purple tinted glasses. Charles Barkley, then Dennis Scott, then Larry Johnson? This is high comedy.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Jan 26, 2012 19:58:42 GMT -5
Great post above, SF.
I think the "skills vs. tools" comparison is especially important given our coach and system. III has proven to be one of the very best coaches in the country at developing skills and teaching offense, so -- with a few exceptions -- I don't worry as much about guys that are athletic but a little behind in the skills department.
Our offensive eFG% has been consistently great from year-to-year. Defense and rebounding have been much more variable. You could interpret that in a number of ways, but my interpretation is that III is simply a great offensive coach. Even his Princeton teams had fantastic eFG%s. Defense and rebounding, on the other hand, are either not his strong suits or (more likely in my opinion) more out of his control and based on natural player tools.
So, my inclination for recruiting is to err on the side of "tools" - give III size with defenders and rebounders and then let him coach them up on offense. Obviously you would ideally get guys who have both tools and skills, but since they are hard to come by, err on the side of athleticism when you have to.
Or just get somebody like Noel and then fill in the gaps.
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hsb
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Post by hsb on Jan 27, 2012 8:33:40 GMT -5
God is that you talking? or is it just Dog squatting next to a fire hydrant again. . .?
Now back to my coffee
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hsb
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Post by hsb on Jan 28, 2012 22:24:25 GMT -5
Just saw this post by RDF and wanted to alert him that someone else was using his name:
"SCORE THE DAMN BALL--really that simple. If you can't score--you won't win against anyone--see end of last year."
While I love Stacey Augmon ball, I couldn't agree more.
Seems to me that we have a local kid who has been doing just that against all comers in bunches. . .would have been nice to bring him in halfway through the 1st half today to score some points (or against Rutgers as well).
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jan 29, 2012 11:15:23 GMT -5
Just saw this post by RDF and wanted to alert him that someone else was using his name: "SCORE THE DAMN BALL--really that simple. If you can't score--you won't win against anyone--see end of last year." While I love Stacey Augmon ball, I couldn't agree more. Seems to me that we have a local kid who has been doing just that against all comers in bunches. . .would have been nice to bring him in halfway through the 1st half today to score some points (or against Rutgers as well). WTF are you even talking about? What is with the 80's and 90's references? Kris Jenkins wouldn't even get on the court at Georgetown right now. His own coach seems to understand this (Kris needs to work on his conditioning and quickness and find a position because he won't be a PF in college) but you don't. And this aint the place to be a PR guy. Go watch Gonzaga Prep and slurp this guy some more because a 6'5 240 lb PF isn't the answer to Georgetown's problems.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 29, 2012 11:48:34 GMT -5
Hey, now! I have nothing to do with it.
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hoyasexy
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Actively engaged in extramarital saxa
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Post by hoyasexy on Jan 29, 2012 12:57:23 GMT -5
Go watch Gonzaga Prep and slurp this guy some more because a 6'5 240 lb PF isn't the answer to Georgetown's problems. Why are you suggesting that he go all the way to Spokane, WA when the guy he is talking about plays right here in DC?
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hsb
Member
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Post by hsb on Jan 30, 2012 14:07:14 GMT -5
RDF, You're an angry elf.
Its basketball, not world peace . . .relax.
If you got an in with a bigtime 6'9" forward who can score inside and out in bunches like Scottie Pippen, can rebound like Dennis Rodman and defend like Staceu Augmon. . . I'll take 5 of em.
However, in the real world, those players are few and far between so you make do with pieces that can add up to a sum greater than the whole.
I think Jenkins can be a nice addition to this team. You apparently dont. We'll see how it plays out.
Now, get back to your video games.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jan 30, 2012 16:52:40 GMT -5
RDF, You're an angry elf. Its basketball, not world peace . . .relax. If you got an in with a bigtime 6'9" forward who can score inside and out in bunches like Scottie Pippen, can rebound like Dennis Rodman and defend like Staceu Augmon. . . I'll take 5 of em. However, in the real world, those players are few and far between so you make do with pieces that can add up to a sum greater than the whole. I think Jenkins can be a nice addition to this team. You apparently dont. We'll see how it plays out. Now, get back to your video games. Why is there a 4 page thread on a kid who has NO INTEREST in Georgetown and Hoyas have "monitored" him? I get that you love this guy and think he's the greatest thing ever--but he doesn't want to come. I've seen the guy play and seen his act off the court-which is also why a lot of schools are lukewarm on him--until he shows he can maintain some discipline, and get his crap together for a sustained period--he'll get looks and that is it. Hope he does--I want any young person to figure it out--but your quest to get him to Georgetown is not going to matter if the kid doesn't want to go there. Also very leery of a guy with weight/conditioning issues who would stay at home. Had a far superior player come and blow off 4 years and any chance of being drafted simply because he felt snack time was more important then getting serious about conditioning. He too was a tweener that could put ball in hole and was marquee guy of the worst era of basketball under III.
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Post by ZagHoya04 on Feb 10, 2012 11:07:43 GMT -5
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Feb 10, 2012 12:09:36 GMT -5
Will watch tonight and see if anything has really changed despite his PR man--who disappeared when Gonzaga dropped 2 straight in past week. Not that I think much of DeMatha's talent lately--they're not very good.
But it's a joke to "get upset" when people question whether a 6'5 250 lb guy has a position--he doesn't. If he was playing in an era where the DMV had loaded prospects, I'd put more into his numbers--but this crop is about as mediocre as it's been in quite a while and there is a reason Georgetown hasn't recruited the area very hard lately-nor should they have been.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Feb 10, 2012 12:34:17 GMT -5
We were just a throw in there, but we are not in pursuit of this kid, let alone "hot pursuit".
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Post by ZagHoya04 on Feb 10, 2012 14:50:04 GMT -5
He was bad against PVI (didn't see St. John's), but I think it was also a matter of Nate Britt's absence catching up to them. With Jenkins as the lone threat you can only go so long before teams start clamping down. With Britt back in the lineup it will be interesting to see what he can do tonight.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Feb 10, 2012 21:10:18 GMT -5
It didn't go all the well for Jenkins tonight.
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Post by stafford72 on Feb 10, 2012 21:12:33 GMT -5
Watched some of the game tonight vs DeMatha. Gonzaga is getting blown out and he is not a factor at all. Looks slow and definitely needs to trim down. Not showing any aggression on the boards. Would not expect him to be a hot item based on what I saw, however no one looks good for Gonzaga in this game. Anya had some moments but nobody to really challenge him. Robinson got ejected in the third quarter for 2 technicals, but he was not missed despite the commentary by the announcers. I don't see him having a lot of success in college.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Feb 10, 2012 21:23:30 GMT -5
to put it kindly, I would pass.
and it has little to do with production tonight or the past week or whenever. His physical attributes are too much to overcome.
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