lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 11, 2012 12:12:20 GMT -5
COME ON FOLKS LETS GIVE THE AD AND THIS WOMAN A BREAK LETS SEE HOW SHE DOES.. unless you are in the arena ......etc..etc.. etc go hoyas ONE AND ALL ps beat st johns on sunday THATS important
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 11, 2012 12:56:33 GMT -5
UMES does very well for the limited athletic budget it has. Additionally, they do field a number of relatively competitive teams (esp soccer, baseball, and apparently bowling ;D)
Shes not the full AD and maybe they are just trying to bring in some fresh blood to try to get things moving?
Either way, who WOULDN'T be surprised at a 100% pay raise, even if you were at the top of your game. No need to rip on her for her reaction.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,136
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Post by RBHoya on Jan 11, 2012 13:04:27 GMT -5
Clearly, Lee Reed has THAT keen of an eye for talent that he scoured the entire country and uncovered this diamond in the rough who had not even been looking to change jobs.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,638
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jan 11, 2012 13:14:20 GMT -5
I'm tired of the "JTII came from nowhere" rationale. Right...and he then built us a pedigree to be very proud of- can we use that? Because if you don't use it, you lose it. We could just keep pretending we are nobody and starting from scratch every 30 years, but I'm not sure that's the most efficient way to get back the final four, get/stay in a major athletic conference, etc. I'm sorry Russky but I'm tired of reserving judgement on our Mickey Mouse AD hires. If they were a level or two where I would expect pier insitutions to be, maybe...but they seem to be 3-4 levels below. This woman seems like she's built a pedigree she can be proud of. You don't rise to the very top of your sport without putting in some work, especially at a place like UMES. Here's the central tension, I think: there's a difference between pedigree and accomplishments. This woman seems pretty well-accomplished. But because she comes from a HBCU, she's a Mickey Mouse hire, apparently. This seems to be much more a brand/image thing than a substantive question, as if it's beneath us to hire people from schools that aren't BCS or Ivy. If I'm hiring, I'm interested in the person, not the prestige of the institution he or she is coming from. It is fair to ask why this individual was not looking to climb the ladder. Perhaps it is for family/personal reasons. Perhaps she really likes living in Maryland and was happy where she was, a place where she was able to rise to the pinnacle of her sport (national championships, national coach of the year). Who knows. If I were conducting the interview, I'm sure I'd ask. I do not think it is fair to assume that the answer to the question is that she couldn't get hired anywhere else or that she lacks motivation.
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ScreamingHoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Ted Valentine: Getting it wrong since 1979.
Posts: 451
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Post by ScreamingHoya on Jan 11, 2012 13:19:55 GMT -5
Stop everything! I don't remember writing a check for boweling.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 11, 2012 13:29:42 GMT -5
Glass half full view: Brummell, who currently resides in Salisbury, Md., holds a bachelor's degree in business administration from Salisbury University, where she was a member of the volleyball program.
Brummell is in her fourth year as the Associate Athletic Director for Budgeting and Fiscal Operations and as Senior Woman Administrator at UMES. She is responsible for overseeing the entire athletic budget, purchases and team travel. As SWA and Title IX coordinator, she ensures that the Department of Athletics operates within the guiding principles of the gender equity requirements of Title IX. She was doing all this while simultaneously running a program as head coach, with all that that entails. Yes, it's women's bowling, but still - she's won as many NCAA titles in her time there (2) as Georgetown has won in its entire history in all sports combined, and has been recognized by her peers as National Coach of the Year twice. Also, the fact that "her 2008 National Championship was the first women's title for a Historically Black College of University (HBCU)" makes me think that she has some pretty good experience with operating in a fiscally- and institutionally-constrained environment. It ain't easy to recruit to HBCU's, or operate there, and the situation in Maryland is such that the state's four HBCU's are suing the Maryland Higher Education Commission over structural and funding inequalities. I have no idea what kind of worker, administrator, colleague, etc. she is - and I'm guessing nobody here does either. Absent that, I think it would be best to reserve judgment. You would think that if any fanbase would know not to put too much stock into pedigree, it would be this one. What was Pops' pedigree like when he was hired? By contrast, Bernie Muir came from Brown and Notre Dame. How'd that turn out? The voice of sanity among the voices of age discrimination and elitism.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
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Post by thebin on Jan 11, 2012 13:30:53 GMT -5
I'm tired of the "JTII came from nowhere" rationale. Right...and he then built us a pedigree to be very proud of- can we use that? Because if you don't use it, you lose it. We could just keep pretending we are nobody and starting from scratch every 30 years, but I'm not sure that's the most efficient way to get back the final four, get/stay in a major athletic conference, etc. I'm sorry Russky but I'm tired of reserving judgement on our Mickey Mouse AD hires. If they were a level or two where I would expect pier insitutions to be, maybe...but they seem to be 3-4 levels below. This woman seems like she's built a pedigree she can be proud of. You don't rise to the very top of your sport without putting in some work, especially at a place like UMES. Here's the central tension, I think: there's a difference between pedigree and accomplishments. This woman seems pretty well-accomplished. But because she comes from a HBCU, she's a Mickey Mouse hire, apparently. This seems to be much more a brand/image thing than a substantive question, as if it's beneath us to hire people from schools that aren't BCS or Ivy. If I'm hiring, I'm interested in the person, not the prestige of the institution he or she is coming from. It is fair to ask why this individual was not looking to climb the ladder. Perhaps it is for family/personal reasons. Perhaps she really likes living in Maryland and was happy where she was, a place where she was able to rise to the pinnacle of her sport (national championships, national coach of the year). Who knows. If I were conducting the interview, I'm sure I'd ask. I do not think it is fair to assume that the answer to the question is that she couldn't get hired anywhere else or that she lacks motivation. If it walks like a duck..... Its a small time hire. Period. Doesn't mean she might not turn out to be a superstar despite a profoundly unpromising start, if we are to take her at her word for why she took the job. And then there is the issue of if we are so poor and we lack junior level paid coaches at many sports- why are we giving someone a 100% raise to make a move that is a no brainer if it is a 20% raise? Those speak to real issues of judgement on both individuals. You are free of course to lend all manner of benefit of the doubt to the university on its hires but I'm through with that. I've seen too little done since the Final Four year to improve the entire department. To the contrary. Agree to disagree Russky.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 11, 2012 13:32:31 GMT -5
COME ON FOLKS LETS GIVE THE AD AND THIS WOMAN A BREAK LETS SEE HOW SHE DOES.. unless you are in the arena ......etc..etc.. etc go hoyas ONE AND ALL ps beat st johns on sunday THATS important I can only speak for myself, but I have no real problem with her -- she's been to the top of her sport and I'm not going to judge her based on UMES. That said, I think the questions of the University are valid. It's an uninspiring hire; the PR around it is terrible and there's no consideration for that element. It's not a shock our athletic department is poorly run, opaque and completely disregarding of perception. Just another brick in the wall. I think what is most pathetic is the lack of understanding by people like Lee Reed or DeGioia that you need to actual sell this hire. There's things to sell here -- but you aren't even trying.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jan 11, 2012 13:38:28 GMT -5
I hesitate to judge an individual on the circumstances and not on the person, but this just looks awful. It feels like Lee Reed, Part II -- the University doesn't actually want someone with drive or ambition because that rocks the boat. Why do I feel like Muir agitated so much to actually, do things, that the University simply is hiring people who won't annoy DeGioia with those pesky requests to get things done? Didn't Reed get the varsity weight room redone last year with not a lot of fanfare? Didn't the Ath. Dept. also take over the management of Yates (long overdue) on his watch? Those are not home runs, but not the moves of a yes man, IMO. (I also think Dr. Porterfield deserves credit for opening some eyes as to where we are relative to peers.) Also, with the Science building on the way, there are no other major buildings for DeGioia to be annoyed with, right? I think the IAC is all that's left for now. [glass half full] Since there haven't been any major announcements, perhaps we can assume the significant gift(s) for the IAC haven't been secured yet. So maybe Reed hired someone with athletic department budget experience (at an albeit inflated cost) so he can focus on the capital side of things. EDIT: Agree that our PR is awful on this.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
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Post by bmartin on Jan 11, 2012 13:44:48 GMT -5
Probably needed to hire a woman with the Title IX compliance experience. Not looking for a new spokesperson or fund-raiser, but a compliance hire.
Would you guys rather Reed had gone after the next Debbie Yow?
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,797
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 11, 2012 13:51:16 GMT -5
Also, with the Science building on the way, there are no other major buildings for DeGioia to be annoyed with, right? I think the IAC is all that's left for now. How soon we forget. www.cfa.gov/meetings/2004/jul/og04207.html
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Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,518
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jan 11, 2012 13:52:50 GMT -5
If Georgetown had a bowling team, how would the coach motivate the players? Just imagine that the ten pins are famous (i.e. infamous) bball players of some university in upstate NY that like Orange? Or some famous traitors of all time and I am not meaning Benedict Arnold? Well, you get the gist.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 11, 2012 13:53:50 GMT -5
I hesitate to judge an individual on the circumstances and not on the person, but this just looks awful. It feels like Lee Reed, Part II -- the University doesn't actually want someone with drive or ambition because that rocks the boat. Why do I feel like Muir agitated so much to actually, do things, that the University simply is hiring people who won't annoy DeGioia with those pesky requests to get things done? Didn't Reed get the varsity weight room redone last year with not a lot of fanfare? Didn't the Ath. Dept. also take over the management of Yates (long overdue) on his watch? Those are not home runs, but not the moves of a yes man, IMO. (I also think Dr. Porterfield deserves credit for opening some eyes as to where we are relative to peers.) Also, with the Science building on the way, there are no other major buildings for DeGioia to be annoyed with, right? I think the IAC is all that's left for now. [glass half full] Since there haven't been any major announcements, perhaps we can assume the significant gift(s) for the IAC haven't been secured yet. So maybe Reed hired someone with athletic department budget experience (at an albeit inflated cost) so he can focus on the capital side of things. EDIT: Agree that our PR is awful on this. Well, I guess those are accomplishments, but the baseline can't be nothing. I guess my general feel on both the hires (this one and Reed) is that I have no idea if they are any good. None. But what I do know is that the University doesn't feel they need to sell it to the Alumni base. Perhaps, from a truly right and wrong standpoint, I probably agree with them. Except that's dumb. Alienating your donation base and potential donation base because you are too lazy or stupid to cast things in a positive light is frankly idiotic. And Georgetown does it constantly. I was told 15 months ago that we'd (likely) have a major donor on the IAC in about six months. Fundraising continues to be an issue, and there's no doubt they are coming up at least a year behind schedule on that.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,716
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 11, 2012 14:05:08 GMT -5
I have to agree with Russky: a lot of you are making assumptions about this person based on statements in one article and your opinion about her current institution which are, at best, ill informed and unfair.
While we're at it, calling Athletic Department hires "mickey mouse" comes perilously close to board rules about comments about staff. Tread carefully there.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 11, 2012 14:11:09 GMT -5
I agree with everybody that the PR on this is terrible. The first quotes from a hire should not have anything to do with salary. That said, I think the 100% salary increase likely comes from the huge disparity between the university she came from and Georgetown. In higher education, Georgetown has never been the type of place to throw money around. Compared to her peers in similar associate AD positions, the salary is probably at or below market.
I think she is also being unfairly maligned because of her association with bowling, since a lot of people don't even consider it a sport. While I did not bowl at the collegiate level (I went to Georgetown, after all, where no such thing existed), I have a long history in bowling and knew a lot of people who did compete at the collegiate level.
Winning national championships in bowling is no easy task - at the top level of the sport, there are a huge number of factors involved and coaching is not a simple task. Moreover, there is no way she could have won those championships without being an excellent coach and recruiting extremely well.
The PR was horrible, but we should give her a chance.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
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Post by thebin on Jan 11, 2012 14:16:00 GMT -5
I think it has much more to do with the fact that we don't have a bowling team, or plans to start one, than a critique of the sport itself.
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hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,429
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Post by hoopsmccan on Jan 11, 2012 14:21:20 GMT -5
I have to agree with Russky: a lot of you are making assumptions about this person based on statements in one article and your opinion about her current institution which are, at best, ill informed and unfair. While we're at it, calling Athletic Department hires "mickey mouse" comes perilously close to board rules about comments about staff. Tread carefully there. can i call the hire goofy?
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,638
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jan 11, 2012 14:22:50 GMT -5
If it walks like a duck..... Its a small time hire. Period. Doesn't mean she might not turn out to be a superstar despite a profoundly unpromising start, if we are to take her at her word for why she took the job. And then there is the issue of if we are so poor and we lack junior level paid coaches at many sports- why are we giving someone a 100% raise to make a move that is a no brainer if it is a 20% raise? Those speak to real issues of judgement on both individuals. You are free of course to lend all manner of benefit of the doubt to the university on its hires but I'm through with that. I've seen too little done since the Final Four year to improve the entire department. To the contrary. Agree to disagree Russky. I'm guessing that the cost of living in the DC Metro Area is a bit higher than in Princess Anne, MD. Besides, you pay what you think the person is worth, not the lowest possible salary at which you think they'll come/stay (and if you're established at a place, are committed to your team, and have had great success there, it may not be a no-brainer for a 20% raise). Anyway, like you said, agree to disagree. I can only speak for myself, but I have no real problem with her -- she's been to the top of her sport and I'm not going to judge her based on UMES. That said, I think the questions of the University are valid. It's an uninspiring hire; the PR around it is terrible and there's no consideration for that element. It's not a shock our athletic department is poorly run, opaque and completely disregarding of perception. Just another brick in the wall. I think what is most pathetic is the lack of understanding by people like Lee Reed or DeGioia that you need to actual sell this hire. There's things to sell here -- but you aren't even trying. You need to sell this hire? Terrible PR? Honest question: how many people here know off the top of their heads who the previous Associate Athletics Director for Business and Finance and Senior Woman's Administrator was? Or cared? How many Associate Athletics Directors can you name period? If anything, this is the most high profile "Associate Athletics Director for Business and Finance and Senior Woman's Administrator" the school has ever had.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jan 11, 2012 14:28:44 GMT -5
Also, with the Science building on the way, there are no other major buildings for DeGioia to be annoyed with, right? I think the IAC is all that's left for now. How soon we forget. www.cfa.gov/meetings/2004/jul/og04207.htmlDidn't forget. It is being "pursued" outside the current campaign, right?
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jan 11, 2012 14:40:09 GMT -5
Didn't Reed get the varsity weight room redone last year with not a lot of fanfare? Didn't the Ath. Dept. also take over the management of Yates (long overdue) on his watch? Those are not home runs, but not the moves of a yes man, IMO. (I also think Dr. Porterfield deserves credit for opening some eyes as to where we are relative to peers.) Also, with the Science building on the way, there are no other major buildings for DeGioia to be annoyed with, right? I think the IAC is all that's left for now. [glass half full] Since there haven't been any major announcements, perhaps we can assume the significant gift(s) for the IAC haven't been secured yet. So maybe Reed hired someone with athletic department budget experience (at an albeit inflated cost) so he can focus on the capital side of things. EDIT: Agree that our PR is awful on this. Well, I guess those are accomplishments, but the baseline can't be nothing. I guess my general feel on both the hires (this one and Reed) is that I have no idea if they are any good. None. But what I do know is that the University doesn't feel they need to sell it to the Alumni base. Perhaps, from a truly right and wrong standpoint, I probably agree with them. Except that's dumb. Alienating your donation base and potential donation base because you are too lazy or stupid to cast things in a positive light is frankly idiotic. And Georgetown does it constantly. I was told 15 months ago that we'd (likely) have a major donor on the IAC in about six months. Fundraising continues to be an issue, and there's no doubt they are coming up at least a year behind schedule on that. I thought the baseline was nothing, and I think DFW's reminder of the MSF kinda proves that. Don't disagree with you on some of the other stuff. The IAC funder(s) is disappointing. It just seems to me that we are doing less of the stuff that Editedes people off lately. I agree that it would be nice to get around to doing more stuff that makes people feel informed and encouraged. Though I did get a nice voicemail yesterday at home thanking me for my donation. I don't think a press release in this day and age would have been too much to ask for, though I get what Russky is saying. She has this budgetary experience, she is going to help us look for efficiencies as we continue our mission of cura personalis in 27 sports, and she is also herself a former head coach who won two national championships. Hoya Saxa. For more information, contact... Not that hard.
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