nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jul 17, 2012 21:14:06 GMT -5
Homer glasses. AD only made it because of Griffin's injury. And he's the golden child. Not there to play a ton but to get experience and exposure for four years from now when he's a core player.
Chandler is there for defense, and his defense is definitely better than Roy at this juncture. Roy is in the convo if he's eligible and Dwght and Bynum choose not to play, but to say he's definitely on the team is just silly.
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on Jul 17, 2012 23:17:59 GMT -5
What exactly makes you eligible for the Olympic team? I was wondering why players like Bynum, Josh Smith, or anyone else wasn't in consideration above Anthony Davis.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jul 17, 2012 23:49:41 GMT -5
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jul 18, 2012 6:25:18 GMT -5
Henry had 4 points 6 rebounds in 15 minutes in his first summer game for Chicago. He did not come in until midway through the 3rd quarter and the Bulls were down 20, 61-41. Henry must have been playing well on both ends because he never came out as the Bulls cut the lead to 4 and finally lost 79-74. So Henry's court time was +15. This is what one Chicago writer had to say about him: The early gems so far, have been Malcolm Thomas and Henry Sims.
Sims (C, Georgetown) was projected to be a late 2nd rounder at best in the draft, but on the court, he looked incredibly polished for a rookie. The Celtics drafted Syracuse Center, Fab Melo, in the mid-first round, and Sims went undrafted. However, from this game, Sims looked more NBA ready, and like the better prospect, if only by a slight margin. The Bulls may have stumbled onto something here, if he continues to progress in the Summer League.www.chicitysports.com/2012/07/18/bulls-summer-league-first-impressions/ |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 18, 2012 8:15:04 GMT -5
Henry had 4 points 6 rebounds in 15 minutes in his first summer game for Chicago. He did not come in until midway through the 3rd quarter and the Bulls were down 20, 61-41. Henry must have been playing well on both ends because he never came out as the Bulls cut the lead to 4 and finally lost 79-74. So Henry's court time was +15. This is what one Chicago writer had to say about him: The early gems so far, have been Malcolm Thomas and Henry Sims. Sims (7’0″ C, Georgetown) was projected to be a late 2nd rounder at best in the draft, but on the court, he looked incredibly polished for a rookie. The Celtics drafted Syracuse Center, Fab Melo, in the mid-first round, and Sims went undrafted. However, from this game, Sims looked more NBA ready, and like the better prospect, if only by a slight margin. The Bulls may have stumbled onto something here, if he continues to progress in the Summer League. www.chicitysports.com/2012/07/18/bulls-summer-league-first-impressions/Great news. |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jul 22, 2012 6:17:05 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jul 22, 2012 6:38:30 GMT -5
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Post by gtowndynasty on Jul 22, 2012 13:21:33 GMT -5
Kinda disappointed that the Hoya guys didnt fare better, but very surprised by AF. I thought if he got time, he'd translate smooth and be able to score pretty well in summer league, but he got more minutes than both Henry and Jason and shot 5/24 overall and 0/5 from three. Totally didnt see that coming. I guess he will have to go back abroad, which is not a bad deal. Interesting to see what will happen with Henry since he had rather pedestrian stints in Orlando and Vegas. He will be fine either way, but pulling for him to get on a roster. |
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JerryLH
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Post by JerryLH on Jul 22, 2012 16:32:27 GMT -5
One would expect Kobe to say that the present US Olympic team is better than the "Dream Team." As a competitor, it would be foolish and defeating for Kobe to have the mindset that the 1992 US Olympic team was better. Where Kobe is off is in his rationale as to why the 2012 team is better than was the 1992 team. When one considers the center positions, the 1992 wins hands down. Even with a Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum on the team, the center position would have been dominated by the 1992 team. David Robinson and Patrick Ewing were freakishly athletic centers in the prime of their careers. Actually, in his prime, David Robinson was an all-around better athlete than Dwight Howard and the most athletic center of his era. Robinson had a big upper body, was extremely muscular and agile. Ewing had an even bigger upper body than Robinson and played a more physical game. Neither had the upper body that Howard possesses; yet, Howard was not that much bigger than Ewing or Robinson. But, unlike Howard, both Ewing and Robinson were skilled offensive players and had well-developed post games. They could also step away from the basket and consistently knock down the mid-range jumpers. After eight seasons in the NBA, Howard still remains underdeveloped in terms of his offensive skills. Ewing and Robinson were also very good to great defenders. In 1992, Dwight Howard would have been no better than the fifth best center in the NBA -- behind Robinson, Ewing, Smits, Daugherty, and Olajuwon. (The centers are listed in no particular order.) In 1992, Howard would have been a more athletic version of Mark Easton. The 2012 team would be at their best if Howard and the second-best center in the NBA, Andrew Bynum, were on the team. But, neither are on the team; Tyson Chandler is. There is a big drop off from Howard and Bynum to Chandler. Chandler is a great athletic and a very good defender. But, Chandler has no post up game and struggles to make shots outside of lay-ups and dunks. (Interestingly, what hurt Chandler's development was that Big John quit coaching two years too early. Chandler publicly stated that had JTII been coaching, he would gone to wherever Big John was the coach.) At the power forward position, Karl Malone and Charles Barkley were in their prime. They would have no peer on the 2012 team. Of the present NBA players, only Tim Duncan, as a power forward, has a resume that matches or exceeds that Malone or Barkley. But, Tim Duncan is way past his prime and not on the 2012 team. LaMarcus Aldridge is up-and-coming. Yet, he too is not on the 2012 team. With the Jordan and Drexler at the shooting guard positions, the 1992 team would win. It would be no contest. Jordan was the most lethal offensive player of that era. He was also a lock-down defender. Even if Kobe could match up with Jordan offensively, Kobe has not been a lock-down defender for three or four years. Clyde Drexler played on a small market team and was always overshadowed by Jordan. But, Drexler was second-best two-guard in the world, during Jordan's first three championship runs and was always in the discussion for most valuable (NBA) player. In his prime Kobe was better than Drexler. However, no other present two-guard matches Drexler's productivity. It is noteworthy that Drexler is considered one of the top 50 NBA players of all time. Outside of Kobe, only Dwayne Wade approaches Drexler's excellence. But, again, Wade is not on the 2012 team. At the small forward position, the 2012 team would have the advantage. Durant, Anthony, and James would be better than Bird, Mullins, and Pippen. In 1992, Bird was near retirement and Mullins was a good scorer, but, at best, was an average defender. But, with Pippen it was different. Pippen could score and was also a lock-down defender. At small forward, Pippen would have presented problems for the 2012 team. Consequently, the advantage the 2012 team would have at the position is not a pronounced as it would first seem. The only position where the 2012 team would have a clear advantage is at point guard. Westbrook, Paul, and Williams would be superior to Magic and Stockton at the point guard. That advantage would be removed if Isaiah Thomas AND Terry Porter were added to the 1992 team. At most of the positions, the 1992 team had athletes that would match up with the athletes on the 2012; but, the 1992 team generally had the superior basketball players. Whoops, wrong quote> Hi Do I disagree with you. Let's put this in perspective. If you look at any sport whether it be swimming track and field, baseball, etc., the athetes of 1992 couldn't begin to compare to the athletes of today. Chandler would eat Ewing or Robinson alive. Too powerful, too quick for either of them. The 2012 team would be too quick and too strong for the 1992 team. The 1992 team beat all of the other teams by 38 points in the 92 olympics. They beat Lithuania in the final. That team didn't have one player that could make any NBA team today. BTW James plays power forward. Who on the 1992 could guard him? |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jul 22, 2012 16:59:46 GMT -5
One would expect Kobe to say that the present US Olympic team is better than the "Dream Team." As a competitor, it would be foolish and defeating for Kobe to have the mindset that the 1992 US Olympic team was better. Where Kobe is off is in his rationale as to why the 2012 team is better than was the 1992 team. When one considers the center positions, the 1992 wins hands down. Even with a Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum on the team, the center position would have been dominated by the 1992 team. David Robinson and Patrick Ewing were freakishly athletic centers in the prime of their careers. Actually, in his prime, David Robinson was an all-around better athlete than Dwight Howard and the most athletic center of his era. Robinson had a big upper body, was extremely muscular and agile. Ewing had an even bigger upper body than Robinson and played a more physical game. Neither had the upper body that Howard possesses; yet, Howard was not that much bigger than Ewing or Robinson. But, unlike Howard, both Ewing and Robinson were skilled offensive players and had well-developed post games. They could also step away from the basket and consistently knock down the mid-range jumpers. After eight seasons in the NBA, Howard still remains underdeveloped in terms of his offensive skills. Ewing and Robinson were also very good to great defenders. In 1992, Dwight Howard would have been no better than the fifth best center in the NBA -- behind Robinson, Ewing, Smits, Daugherty, and Olajuwon. (The centers are listed in no particular order.) In 1992, Howard would have been a more athletic version of Mark Easton. The 2012 team would be at their best if Howard and the second-best center in the NBA, Andrew Bynum, were on the team. But, neither are on the team; Tyson Chandler is. There is a big drop off from Howard and Bynum to Chandler. Chandler is a great athletic and a very good defender. But, Chandler has no post up game and struggles to make shots outside of lay-ups and dunks. (Interestingly, what hurt Chandler's development was that Big John quit coaching two years too early. Chandler publicly stated that had JTII been coaching, he would gone to wherever Big John was the coach.) At the power forward position, Karl Malone and Charles Barkley were in their prime. They would have no peer on the 2012 team. Of the present NBA players, only Tim Duncan, as a power forward, has a resume that matches or exceeds that Malone or Barkley. But, Tim Duncan is way past his prime and not on the 2012 team. LaMarcus Aldridge is up-and-coming. Yet, he too is not on the 2012 team. With the Jordan and Drexler at the shooting guard positions, the 1992 team would win. It would be no contest. Jordan was the most lethal offensive player of that era. He was also a lock-down defender. Even if Kobe could match up with Jordan offensively, Kobe has not been a lock-down defender for three or four years. Clyde Drexler played on a small market team and was always overshadowed by Jordan. But, Drexler was second-best two-guard in the world, during Jordan's first three championship runs and was always in the discussion for most valuable (NBA) player. In his prime Kobe was better than Drexler. However, no other present two-guard matches Drexler's productivity. It is noteworthy that Drexler is considered one of the top 50 NBA players of all time. Outside of Kobe, only Dwayne Wade approaches Drexler's excellence. But, again, Wade is not on the 2012 team. At the small forward position, the 2012 team would have the advantage. Durant, Anthony, and James would be better than Bird, Mullins, and Pippen. In 1992, Bird was near retirement and Mullins was a good scorer, but, at best, was an average defender. But, with Pippen it was different. Pippen could score and was also a lock-down defender. At small forward, Pippen would have presented problems for the 2012 team. Consequently, the advantage the 2012 team would have at the position is not a pronounced as it would first seem. The only position where the 2012 team would have a clear advantage is at point guard. Westbrook, Paul, and Williams would be superior to Magic and Stockton at the point guard. That advantage would be removed if Isaiah Thomas AND Terry Porter were added to the 1992 team. At most of the positions, the 1992 team had athletes that would match up with the athletes on the 2012; but, the 1992 team generally had the superior basketball players. Whoops, wrong quote> Hi Do I disagree with you. Let's put this in perspective. If you look at any sport whether it be swimming track and field, baseball, etc., the athetes of 1992 couldn't begin to compare to the athletes of today. Chandler would eat Ewing or Robinson alive. Too powerful, too quick for either of them. The 2012 team would be too quick and too strong for the 1992 team. The 1992 team beat all of the other teams by 38 points in the 92 olympics. They beat Lithuania in the final. That team didn't have one player that could make any NBA team today. BTW James plays power forward. Who on the 1992 could guard him? Are athletes in general stronger than 20 years ago, with better knowledge of workout regimes, better equipment, better nutrition? Definitely. But the claim that Chandler would "eat Ewing and Robinson alive" is absolutely the most inane statement I have seen on this board in 2 years. There are still things called desire, effort, and intensity that play a part in performance. Chandler would not score a point against Ewing and Robinson, and while he could possibly reject a couple of their shots, their effort on the boards would make Tyson look like a college kid. |
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jul 22, 2012 17:04:18 GMT -5
One way the current team could challenge the 92 team is by putting LeBron at PF as Jerry said. He is big / strong enough to guard Malone and Barkley and they wouldnt have a chance guarding him. You still have the matchup problems at Center though, and an in his prime Jordan vs an older Kobe would be too much, I think. It's also pretty ridiculous to think that the training methods are that different than they were 20 years ago. It's still a game of skill--athleticism helps a lot, but we aren't talking about players from an era where they spent the offseason working a real job. Jordan and company were in the gym in the offseason training and getting better, just like the current team
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JerryLH
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Post by JerryLH on Jul 22, 2012 22:41:44 GMT -5
Hi!
you said:
Are athletes in general stronger than 20 years ago, with better knowledge of workout regimes, better equipment, better nutrition? Definitely. But the claim that Chandler would "eat Ewing and Robinson alive" is absolutely the most inane statement I have seen on this board in 2 years. There are still things called desire, effort, and intensity that play a part in performance. Chandler would not score a point against Ewing and Robinson, and while he could possibly reject a couple of their shots, their effort on the boards would make Tyson look like a college kid.
First of all, I love to watch vintage NBA games on cable back from the 1990s. Take a look at the builds on the players today and back then. Take a look at the build on Robinson or Ewing and then look at Tyson Chandler. Chandler would push those guys all over the court. He is also quick. The international game is a rough game and the majority of the NBA players back in 1992 didn't begin to have the strength or quickness that the players have today. What is the basis for stating that Ewing and Robinson have more desire, effort or intensity than Chandler? Now that is inane since you have no basis for that statement.
Lastly in sports where you can compare, can you name one, just one winning Olympic swimmer or runner from 1992 who could win in 2012?? Do you think that the baseball team that won their league or division in major league baseball in 1992, could do that against the teams today?? Do you think that whoever, won the super bowl in 1992 could win the Superbowl against the Giants?? I think that the answers are obvious, but you seem to think that basketball is an exception. Well, it isn't.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 23, 2012 6:23:39 GMT -5
Hi! you said: Are athletes in general stronger than 20 years ago, with better knowledge of workout regimes, better equipment, better nutrition? Definitely. But the claim that Chandler would "eat Ewing and Robinson alive" is absolutely the most inane statement I have seen on this board in 2 years. There are still things called desire, effort, and intensity that play a part in performance. Chandler would not score a point against Ewing and Robinson, and while he could possibly reject a couple of their shots, their effort on the boards would make Tyson look like a college kid. First of all, I love to watch vintage NBA games on cable back from the 1990s. Take a look at the builds on the players today and back then. Take a look at the build on Robinson or Ewing and then look at Tyson Chandler. Chandler would push those guys all over the court. He is also quick. The international game is a rough game and the majority of the NBA players back in 1992 didn't begin to have the strength or quickness that the players have today. What is the basis for stating that Ewing and Robinson have more desire, effort or intensity than Chandler? Now that is inane since you have no basis for that statement. Lastly in sports where you can compare, can you name one, just one winning Olympic swimmer or runner from 1992 who could win in 2012?? Do you think that the baseball team that won their league or division in major league baseball in 1992, could do that against the teams today?? Do you think that whoever, won the super bowl in 1992 could win the Superbowl against the Giants?? I think that the answers are obvious, but you seem to think that basketball is an exception. Well, it isn't. What are you, 14-years-old? Give it up. You're making an idiotic argument trying to say Chandler would destroy Ewing and Robinson. |
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JerryLH
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Post by JerryLH on Jul 23, 2012 7:31:15 GMT -5
KCHOYA
Instead of hurling personal insults, why don't you address my points. Although it may seem like yesterday, 1992 is another generation and people tend to have a romantic unrealistic (in my opinion) view of the abilities of the past.
Once again, name an Olympic track or swimming champion from 1992
that could repeat that feat in 2012. I doubt that they could even make the semi-final heats.
Chandler was defensive player of the year in 2012. He is infinitely stronger than either Robinson or Ewing, and quicker also. With all of the physical play allowed in the Olympics, Chandler would simply push Ewing or Robinson out of the way. On Defense, he would just push them away from the basket.
Lastly, if you get a chance watch vintage NBA games from the early 1990s and you will see what I mean. Particularly watch the intensity of defense back then, the strength of the players etc. compared with the players today. The games back then are actually quite primitive compared to the way the game is played today.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 23, 2012 8:05:22 GMT -5
KCHOYA Instead of hurling personal insults, why don't you address my points. Although it may seem like yesterday, 1992 is another generation and people tend to have a romantic unrealistic (in my opinion) view of the abilities of the past. Once again, name an Olympic track or swimming champion from 1992 that could repeat that feat in 2012. I doubt that they could even make the semi-final heats. Chandler was defensive player of the year in 2012. He is infinitely stronger than either Robinson or Ewing, and quicker also. With all of the physical play allowed in the Olympics, Chandler would simply push Ewing or Robinson out of the way. On Defense, he would just push them away from the basket. Lastly, if you get a chance watch vintage NBA games from the early 1990s and you will see what I mean. Particularly watch the intensity of defense back then, the strength of the players etc. compared with the players today. The games back then are actually quite primitive compared to the way the game is played today. It's not an insult. I'm trying to figure out how a human being could possibly believe Tyson Chandler is "infinitely stronger" than either Robinson or Ewing. The best theory I could come with is that you are a snot-nosed teenager. Just give it up. Your arguments are actually becoming more far-fetched every time you post. "With all of the physical play allowed in the Olympics, Chandler would simply push Ewing or Robinson out of the way." Really, you think the basketball played now is more physical than what was played in 1992? Wow. "The games back then are actually quite primitive compared to the way the game is played today." Yes, you're right, the prevalence of four guys on one side of the court isolation plays that dominates the NBA today proves today's game is so much more advanced than the game 20 years ago.  As to your point about Olympic champions from 20 years ago, yes, many of the marks have incrementally improved over time. But that does not mean that athletes today are "infinitely stronger" today. Plus, we're talking about basketball, not track. But if you want to look at track, look at the world records in the 200M (men and women), that's just one example. |
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Jul 23, 2012 8:43:11 GMT -5
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jul 23, 2012 8:45:33 GMT -5
Maybe not. Sprinting has been refined down to a science because it's much less complicated. Basketball, since it uses a wider variety of movements and involves reacting to others, seems like it still has a longer way to go before it plateaus. |
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jul 23, 2012 9:32:25 GMT -5
Maybe not. Sprinting has been refined down to a science because it's much less complicated. Basketball, since it uses a wider variety of movements and involves reacting to others, seems like it still has a longer way to go before it plateaus. Right. But isnt it the complaint that basketball skills were better in the Dream Team era? I think that while Chandler might be stronger / faster, he is not as good at basketball, a sport which is not just about speed and strength, but also about skill and executing as a team. And I think that unless the end of the playoffs LeBron shows up (he's still a streaky shooter) the current team would have a hard time beating the Dream Team. |
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JerryLH
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Post by JerryLH on Jul 23, 2012 9:43:27 GMT -5
KCHOYA First of all, I am just as amazed at your position and you are with mine. In 1992, if you threw a baseball 93-94 mph, you were a flame thrower. today, there a myriad of pitchers who throw in the upper 90s and a few break 100mph. What is more amazing, is that if you throw a 100mph fastball down the center of the plate, the hitters today, will park it in the upper deck 450+ feet away. Golf courses have been toughened and the tees moved further away. Tennis players serve hit 150 mph, and what is more amazing, unless they are hit in the corner, they are returned. Training is much more sophisticated today. Getting back to Ewing and Robinson, both, particularly Robinson were finesse players. By today's standard, they were not particularly strong. I am not a kid and I remember in 1992, some were extolling the skills of Cousey and Havlicek. Of course neither of those players could dribble with their left hand The strategies today are much more sophisticated. What you see in the NBA is pick and roll and back door passes, etc. Defenses are more complex as well. Robinson and Ewing were GREAT in their day, but not in today's world of basketball. |
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jul 23, 2012 9:50:04 GMT -5
Getting strong is basically a function of lifting up heavy things, putting them down, and then repeating. People have been getting strong for a long time. And frankly there's a lot of people (even at the professional level) wasting a lot of training time on stuff that doesn't make them stronger. How you can look at a picture of David Robinson and claim that he isn't strong is beyond me. He was 260 pounds of muscle!
Do you believe that players jump higher today? I think they probably do, on average, but at the elite level, Jordan and Drexler and those guys can jump just as high.
I am a defender of the current NBA and think the guys that make up the 2012 team are amazingly good in any era. And clearly one can go back far enough to make these conversations silly - Bob Cousy couldn't guard Russell Westbrook. But Chandler over Ewing/Robinson is taking a somewhat valid point to the point of absurdity.
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