kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 5, 2012 16:23:44 GMT -5
Fouled out - honestly he's been kind of worthless in the 4th and in OT. Still he impacts the defensive end so much that he's one of the big reasons they've put themselves in a position to run away w/this series. He's got to up his game next series though. Up his game? He had 14 points and 10 rebounds in 21 minutes of action today. They never go to him the 4th or OT. What's he supposed to do?
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on May 5, 2012 17:06:30 GMT -5
Weird if you look at the teams' +/- stats. Pacers whole starting unit in the negatives. Roy with a game-worst -16.
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Post by rustyshackleford on May 5, 2012 17:16:13 GMT -5
Fouled out - honestly he's been kind of worthless in the 4th and in OT. Still he impacts the defensive end so much that he's one of the big reasons they've put themselves in a position to run away w/this series. He's got to up his game next series though. Up his game? He had 14 points and 10 rebounds in 21 minutes of action today. They never go to him the 4th or OT. What's he supposed to do? They don't go to him because he didn't establish position on offense and was clearly winded. Part of that is a product of having Davis push him around. He was a big reason for their leads in the first half but it was clear he was gassed by the end. He's had one very good game this series and that was largely due to a dominant third quarter. That's despite the fact that this is a Howard-less Magic and he's been matched up against Davis and an absolutely abysmal defender in Anderson (though this is also admittedly partially because his minutes have been limited because the teams have went small). He also had some uncharacteristically silly fouls today - something that he's greatly improved on. I'm not going to unconditionally praise Roy simply for numbers. He has a chance to be the next great big man in the league for us with a little more consistency.
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on May 5, 2012 17:20:28 GMT -5
He also had 14 pts. at the 8 minute mark and did not score the rest of the game.
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Ottomatic
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Post by Ottomatic on May 5, 2012 18:20:32 GMT -5
Pacers don't really run much through Roy in the post in the 4th like they do in the 1st 3 quarters
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Post by rustyshackleford on May 6, 2012 11:30:49 GMT -5
Pacers don't really run much through Roy in the post in the 4th like they do in the 1st 3 quarters This is also partially true. The Pacers guards are horrible at getting Roy the ball. Roy has aggressiveness/conditioning issues but there's no excuse for Roy getting 7 shots while Hill and George get 17 (and hit only 4 of those). On top of that Danny Granger should NEVER have more 3pt attempts than Roy has total fg attempts. That's on Vogel.
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KirbyKeger
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Post by KirbyKeger on May 6, 2012 11:34:15 GMT -5
Roy should be demanding the ball the majority of possessions against the Magic. This problem feels all too familiar...
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 6, 2012 12:34:49 GMT -5
Roy should be demanding the ball the majority of possessions against the Magic. This problem feels all too familiar... Do you think he doesn't want the ball? Do you think he doesn't post up and ask for the ball? He can't pass the ball to himself. WTF? Seriously.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on May 6, 2012 13:23:23 GMT -5
Roy did not have a good fourth quarter or overtime. The play he fouled out on, he just grabbed Jameer Nelson and didn't even keep him from getting the bucket. He also had a couple rebounds taken away by Davis. Davis does give Roy some issues since he's so low to the ground and wide that he has leverage over Roy. Still, I think Vogel needs to give Roy at least as many touches as David West gets in the post. West isn't bad, but he's way more of blackhole than Roy. Give the big man some touches on the block in the fourth quarter and good things WILL happen.
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KirbyKeger
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Post by KirbyKeger on May 6, 2012 13:45:02 GMT -5
Roy should be demanding the ball the majority of possessions against the Magic. This problem feels all too familiar... Do you think he doesn't want the ball? Do you think he doesn't post up and ask for the ball? He can't pass the ball to himself. WTF? Seriously. If you watched the fourth quarter of yesterday's game, he spent a very small amount of time in the post. I rarely saw him try to post up Davis in the 4th. The same aggression in posting up and asking for the ball that we saw early on in the game was not present in that quarter. It wasn't that ridiculous of a statement. Why don't you settle down a bit. Did you even watch the game? Judging by your responses to both myself and Rusty, I'm not sure you did.
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Post by williambraskyiii on May 6, 2012 14:02:18 GMT -5
Do you think he doesn't want the ball? Do you think he doesn't post up and ask for the ball? He can't pass the ball to himself. WTF? Seriously. If you watched the fourth quarter of yesterday's game, he spent a very small amount of time in the post. I rarely saw him try to post up Davis in the 4th. The same aggression in posting up and asking for the ball that we saw early on in the game was not present in that quarter. It wasn't that ridiculous of a statement. Why don't you settle down a bit. Did you even watch the game? Judging by your responses to both myself and Rusty, I'm not sure you did. Agree. Stop being so defensive dude. We all love Roy but he still needs work on establishing post position. No doubt there are some occasions where he doesn't get the ball when he should, but I noticed that the Pacers made a conscious decision to go to West down the stretch and I'd attribute that to the game West was having, as well as the fact that Roy just wasn't as effective in the post as the game wore on. Roy has stamina issues but only so much he can do about that...can't fault his drive and/or conditioning -- Big Roy is one of the hardest workers in the game.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on May 6, 2012 15:03:54 GMT -5
Agree. Stop being so defensive dude. We all love Roy but he still needs work on establishing post position. No doubt there are some occasions where he doesn't get the ball when he should, but I noticed that the Pacers made a conscious decision to go to West down the stretch and I'd attribute that to the game West was having, as well as the fact that Roy just wasn't as effective in the post as the game wore on. Roy has stamina issues but only so much he can do about that...can't fault his drive and/or conditioning -- Big Roy is one of the hardest workers in the game. After all the physical obstacles Roy has overcome his major weakness is now his chronic passivity on the court. He lacks a killer instinct when it comes to scoring, he's too willing to just fit in instead of taking advantage of his height. Frankly it holds him back as a player and you saw a bit of that yesterday. However the main blame did not lie with him yesterday, it laid with his team. The guy is shooting over 70% from the floor yesterday and yet only takes seven shots. It had nothing to do about him getting tired down the stretch. He didn't look any more winded late in the second half than he did throughout the game. Instead he had to contend with teammates who don't look for him enough and a game plan that doesn't take advantage of his ability to score when his shot is falling. The Pacers don't have any perimeter players who create. No guys who drive, draw and dish to their big guys for easy, uncontested baskets (dunks). They don't have point guards who know how to run an offense and get the ball to the right guy at the right time. They don't have many players who can throw a good pass from the perimeter into the interior. In fact Roy is probably their best passer in terms of throwing it into a teammate in the paint. Reading one of the Pacers message boards I have come across Pacers fans who agree. If Roy has a finite amount of minutes on the floor irregardless of fouls then you have to make those minutes count. The players and the coaches must try to get him going early and often and keep it up while he is on the floor. Danny Granger can take quick, bad shots at any time, so why do so when Roy who shoots a higher percentage, is on the floor. He is going to be off the court in a couple of minutes so you might as well let him have a look instead. And if the defense doubles or if Roy sees that a teammate can get a better shot, he will make the right pass. And doesn't that benefit the other scorers on the team? The big guy makes good decisions with the ball so put the ball in his hands more. Even further demand that he takes those shots. Make that part of the game plan. If he floats around the perimeter too much then it is up to the coaches and the leaders in that locker room to get on him about not posting up. That recent Grantland piece made a good point about how the Pacers could probably better utilize Roy on the offensive end but instead the team seems more willing to stick to the share the rock approach, spread the wealth. The problem is that there are plenty of games in which that approach goes out the window and a player who is on fire keeps jacking it up. West was a beast yesterday but he also took 23 or so shots. Has there ever been a Pacers games in which Roy took that many, even when he was hitting at a high clip? No. How many times on this board have someone posted that Roy has scored a bunch of points in the first half and looks like he is on his way to 30 points plus, only for him to finish below 20 points instead? There is no effort to give him the ball and make him the focal point throughout an entire game, even when he's playing exceptional. But Orlando, on the other hand, will ride Big Baby all game long, even if he starts off shooting horribly. Huge difference there. And I might add that one reason Big Baby can play so many minutes against the Pacers is because he doesn't have to worry about working hard on the defensive end. Why would he if Roy isn't taking shots? You just watch. In the next series against Miami there are going to be games in which the only advantage the Pacers will have on the court is Roy and yet he won't get the touches while his teammates take quick, bad shots as they are being guarded by LeBron and Wade. It is inevitable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 14:00:58 GMT -5
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on May 7, 2012 15:15:17 GMT -5
That rant is priceless. It ranks right up there with Mora's "PLAYOFFS" rant...............
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 7, 2012 19:41:08 GMT -5
And Tommy Lasorda discussing Dave Kingman.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2012 8:37:48 GMT -5
And Tommy Lasorda discussing Dave Kingman. And Fletch discussing Tommy Lasorda.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 8, 2012 8:47:03 GMT -5
Dennis Greene
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 8, 2012 9:26:09 GMT -5
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on May 8, 2012 9:50:14 GMT -5
And the best one, Lee Elia:
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 8, 2012 11:31:45 GMT -5
And the best one, Lee Elia: I had never heard this one. We have a winnah.
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