SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 30, 2011 23:00:40 GMT -5
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 30, 2011 23:42:45 GMT -5
It's interesting that the sports media was outraged at Paterno, and demanded that he not only not be able to finish out the season, but that he not even coach one last game because the scandal would be a constant cloud over Penn State as long as Paterno was coaching and the investigation was going on.
And yet Boeheim is going to continue to coach for an entire season while this cloud of the scandal and investigation will constantly create a media circus for this entire season.
Syracuse controlled ESPN supposedly orchestrated the Syracuse & Pitt defections to the ACC. (according to the ACC's Boston College AD) If Boeheim is fired and the Syracuse program dies then ESPN/ACC basically gets nothing and loses millions. I just can't see them letting that happen. Boeheim and the Syracuse program will be protected at all costs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2011 9:09:26 GMT -5
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Dec 1, 2011 10:04:23 GMT -5
It's interesting that the sports media was outraged at Paterno, and demanded that he not only not be able to finish out the season, but that he not even coach one last game because the scandal would be a constant cloud over Penn State as long as Paterno was coaching and the investigation was going on. And yet Boeheim is going to continue to coach for an entire season while this cloud of the scandal and investigation will constantly create a media circus for this entire season. Syracuse controlled ESPN supposedly orchestrated the Syracuse & Pitt defections to the ACC. (according to the ACC's Boston College AD) If Boeheim is fired and the Syracuse program dies then ESPN/ACC basically gets nothing and loses millions. I just can't see them letting that happen. Boeheim and the Syracuse program will be protected at all costs. Really, cut it out with the unsubtantiated allegations. They make what is a story that's bigger than Georgetown's rivalry with Syracuse just sound like Hoya fans being petty. Every time we stoop to that level, we make it easier to pigeonhole. There are differences between Penn State and Syracuse. They are significant. I have to emphasize that this is not a defense of Syracuse or Boeheim - I still think that his initial attacks on the accusers is a large enough moral failing to justify his termination, and that you shouldn't trust your kids with Boeheim's friends. 1. Paterno was aware of the alleged abuse at least a decade beforehand. For right now, at least, Boeheim has not been proven to have had any knowledge of Fine's actions. There is a separate question as to whether or not Boeheim *should* have known if he was the head coach, but, with the story still changing, it's unreasonable to fire him based on an incomplete picture with bombshells coming in on a weekly basis. After some period of time when the story has stabilized and is not constantly changing, asking that question is reasonable. It's not now. 2. As a follow-on to the above, note that the Penn State scandal cost the university president, athletic director (for all intents and purposes), and the coach - the allegation was that the rot was much more intense, to the point where the school is now getting investigated for violating federal law (the Cleary Act, regarding university reporting of crime on campus). Syracuse's chancellor acted very quickly in dismissing Fine and (possibly) forcing Boeheim to recant - the same allegation of failure at all levels doesn't appear to exist here. 3. It's a non-issue to criticize ESPN on protecting Syracuse as part of some ACC cabal - ESPN does have a lot of issues regarding their handling of the case, specifically with their moral responsibility to turn the tape over to law enforcement, and criticizing them for some cloak-and-dagger plot isn't needed when the stuff on the actual table is much more damning.
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by vcjack on Dec 1, 2011 10:15:46 GMT -5
"It was a rite of passage for some to be with Bernie's wife" So really Syracuse is actually a free love commune. The ACC can have the Branch Boeheimians
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 1, 2011 11:25:36 GMT -5
"It was a rite of passage for some to be with Bernie's wife" So really Syracuse is actually a free love commune. The ACC can have the Branch Boeheimians Wow, talk about a horrifying hazing ritual!
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 1, 2011 11:36:28 GMT -5
It's interesting that the sports media was outraged at Paterno, and demanded that he not only not be able to finish out the season, but that he not even coach one last game because the scandal would be a constant cloud over Penn State as long as Paterno was coaching and the investigation was going on. And yet Boeheim is going to continue to coach for an entire season while this cloud of the scandal and investigation will constantly create a media circus for this entire season. Syracuse controlled ESPN supposedly orchestrated the Syracuse & Pitt defections to the ACC. (according to the ACC's Boston College AD) If Boeheim is fired and the Syracuse program dies then ESPN/ACC basically gets nothing and loses millions. I just can't see them letting that happen. Boeheim and the Syracuse program will be protected at all costs. Really, cut it out with the unsubtantiated allegations. They make what is a story that's bigger than Georgetown's rivalry with Syracuse just sound like Hoya fans being petty. Every time we stoop to that level, we make it easier to pigeonhole. There are differences between Penn State and Syracuse. They are significant. I have to emphasize that this is not a defense of Syracuse or Boeheim - I still think that his initial attacks on the accusers is a large enough moral failing to justify his termination, and that you shouldn't trust your kids with Boeheim's friends. 1. Paterno was aware of the alleged abuse at least a decade beforehand. For right now, at least, Boeheim has not been proven to have had any knowledge of Fine's actions. There is a separate question as to whether or not Boeheim *should* have known if he was the head coach, but, with the story still changing, it's unreasonable to fire him based on an incomplete picture with bombshells coming in on a weekly basis. After some period of time when the story has stabilized and is not constantly changing, asking that question is reasonable. It's not now. 2. As a follow-on to the above, note that the Penn State scandal cost the university president, athletic director (for all intents and purposes), and the coach - the allegation was that the rot was much more intense, to the point where the school is now getting investigated for violating federal law (the Cleary Act, regarding university reporting of crime on campus). Syracuse's chancellor acted very quickly in dismissing Fine and (possibly) forcing Boeheim to recant - the same allegation of failure at all levels doesn't appear to exist here. 3. It's a non-issue to criticize ESPN on protecting Syracuse as part of some ACC cabal - ESPN does have a lot of issues regarding their handling of the case, specifically with their moral responsibility to turn the tape over to law enforcement, and criticizing them for some cloak-and-dagger plot isn't needed when the stuff on the actual table is much more damning. Were you part of the mob that was outraged with Penn State and Paterno?
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 1, 2011 11:38:38 GMT -5
" Another major financial boon occurred in 2003 for Syracuse University. Syracuse’s S. I. Newhouse School of Public Communications received a $15 million gift from the S.I. Newhouse Foundation and the Newhouse family to fund the construction of the third building in the Newhouse Communications Complex. S.I. Newhouse, Jr. is the owner of the multibillion dollar conglomerate, Advance Publications, which owns The Post-Standard. Would news broken by the Post-Standard put a damper on the $15 million gift given by the S.I. Newhouse Foundation to Syracuse University? According to The Post-Standard’s timeline, ESPN was not aware of the Bernie Fine accusations prior to April 6, 2003, when they interviewed Jim Boeheim for an episode of “Outside The Lines.” It wasn’t until June 2003 that Bobby Davis contacted ESPN with the recorded conversation with Laurie Fine. In a statement made by ESPN Senior Vice President & Director Vince Doria, ESPN could not confirm that the voice in the audio Bobby Davis provided was that of Laurie Fine. Doria stated that ESPN knew the police had told Davis that the statute of limitations was expired, so ESPN did not pursue additional action with the Syracuse police. The relationship between Syracuse and ESPN runs much deeper than the millions of dollars paid to the Big East for broadcasting college basketball games. Many of ESPN’s sportscasters and journalists are graduates of Syracuse’s S. I. Newhouse School of Public Communications.
Syracuse alumni employed by ESPN include Mike Tirico, Jayson Stark, Anish Shroff, Dave Ryan, Dave Pasch, Sean McDonough, Matthew Berry, Steve Bunin and David Amber.ESPN’s parent company, Walt Disney, has done business with Advance Publications (Newhouse’s conglomerate) prior to 2003, buying Fairchild Publications from Disney for $650 million in 1999.: bleacherreport.com/articles/963579-why-wouldnt-espn-and-the-post-standard-publish-bernie-fine-allegations-in-2003
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by theexorcist on Dec 1, 2011 11:42:52 GMT -5
Really, cut it out with the unsubtantiated allegations. They make what is a story that's bigger than Georgetown's rivalry with Syracuse just sound like Hoya fans being petty. Every time we stoop to that level, we make it easier to pigeonhole. There are differences between Penn State and Syracuse. They are significant. I have to emphasize that this is not a defense of Syracuse or Boeheim - I still think that his initial attacks on the accusers is a large enough moral failing to justify his termination, and that you shouldn't trust your kids with Boeheim's friends. 1. Paterno was aware of the alleged abuse at least a decade beforehand. For right now, at least, Boeheim has not been proven to have had any knowledge of Fine's actions. There is a separate question as to whether or not Boeheim *should* have known if he was the head coach, but, with the story still changing, it's unreasonable to fire him based on an incomplete picture with bombshells coming in on a weekly basis. After some period of time when the story has stabilized and is not constantly changing, asking that question is reasonable. It's not now. 2. As a follow-on to the above, note that the Penn State scandal cost the university president, athletic director (for all intents and purposes), and the coach - the allegation was that the rot was much more intense, to the point where the school is now getting investigated for violating federal law (the Cleary Act, regarding university reporting of crime on campus). Syracuse's chancellor acted very quickly in dismissing Fine and (possibly) forcing Boeheim to recant - the same allegation of failure at all levels doesn't appear to exist here. 3. It's a non-issue to criticize ESPN on protecting Syracuse as part of some ACC cabal - ESPN does have a lot of issues regarding their handling of the case, specifically with their moral responsibility to turn the tape over to law enforcement, and criticizing them for some cloak-and-dagger plot isn't needed when the stuff on the actual table is much more damning. Were you part of the mob that was outraged with Penn State and Paterno? Mob, no. Was I outraged? Yes. See my posts on this site, same subject.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Dec 1, 2011 12:00:15 GMT -5
" Another major financial boon occurred in 2003 for Syracuse University. Syracuse’s S. I. Newhouse School of Public Communications received a $15 million gift from the S.I. Newhouse Foundation and the Newhouse family to fund the construction of the third building in the Newhouse Communications Complex. S.I. Newhouse, Jr. is the owner of the multibillion dollar conglomerate, Advance Publications, which owns The Post-Standard. Would news broken by the Post-Standard put a damper on the $15 million gift given by the S.I. Newhouse Foundation to Syracuse University? According to The Post-Standard’s timeline, ESPN was not aware of the Bernie Fine accusations prior to April 6, 2003, when they interviewed Jim Boeheim for an episode of “Outside The Lines.” It wasn’t until June 2003 that Bobby Davis contacted ESPN with the recorded conversation with Laurie Fine. In a statement made by ESPN Senior Vice President & Director Vince Doria, ESPN could not confirm that the voice in the audio Bobby Davis provided was that of Laurie Fine. Doria stated that ESPN knew the police had told Davis that the statute of limitations was expired, so ESPN did not pursue additional action with the Syracuse police. The relationship between Syracuse and ESPN runs much deeper than the millions of dollars paid to the Big East for broadcasting college basketball games. Many of ESPN’s sportscasters and journalists are graduates of Syracuse’s S. I. Newhouse School of Public Communications.
Syracuse alumni employed by ESPN include Mike Tirico, Jayson Stark, Anish Shroff, Dave Ryan, Dave Pasch, Sean McDonough, Matthew Berry, Steve Bunin and David Amber.ESPN’s parent company, Walt Disney, has done business with Advance Publications (Newhouse’s conglomerate) prior to 2003, buying Fairchild Publications from Disney for $650 million in 1999.: bleacherreport.com/articles/963579-why-wouldnt-espn-and-the-post-standard-publish-bernie-fine-allegations-in-2003Do you have anything to post on this subject other than inaccurate statements of chronology and facts, conspiracy theories, ridiculous defenses of Joe Paterno, and statements of guilt by association?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 1, 2011 13:46:17 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 1, 2011 14:00:21 GMT -5
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 1, 2011 14:11:29 GMT -5
I think Mark Schwarz nails why Boeheim should be done as a coach: "I think the problem with people that react to any story of this nature, including Jason Whitlock and Jim Boeheim, is these are the types of stories that are difficult to fathom. We don't understand sexual child abuse as a culture and so when people do come forward, which is so very unusual, often the reaction is, 'That guy must be looking for money. That guy is looking for attention.' "What people probably fail to consider is going to national television and saying that a man fondled my Edited hundreds of times does not usually give one the kind of attention that people seek. I think Jason Whitlock and Jim Boeheim reacted to the very first thing they saw and decided it was unfair, untrue and the victims became their target. Or in the case of Whitlock, I became the target. Of course, when the story unfolded, a lot of that stuff kind of went away. "The part that is the most difficult for me is Bobby Davis put his entire soul and reputation out there and then Jim Boeheim, a person much more respected in the community, put a knife through him. That is what makes it so hard for other people to come forward with this stuff because they see how a Boeheim crushes a Bobby Davis, and they don't want to be crushed themselves."
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Dec 1, 2011 14:48:02 GMT -5
Has Whitlock apologized at all for the sledgehammer he whacked away at Schwarz with?
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 1, 2011 15:33:03 GMT -5
President Cantor lobs the grenade back into the laps of The Post-Standard and ESPN: Methinks the lady doth protest too much. You were just going to take the tape at face value right away and fire Fine, with no attempt at investigation? You would've gone straight to the authorities... who had already declared the case closed due to the statute of limitations?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 1, 2011 15:54:00 GMT -5
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 1, 2011 16:21:40 GMT -5
" Another major financial boon occurred in 2003 for Syracuse University. Syracuse’s S. I. Newhouse School of Public Communications received a $15 million gift from the S.I. Newhouse Foundation and the Newhouse family to fund the construction of the third building in the Newhouse Communications Complex. S.I. Newhouse, Jr. is the owner of the multibillion dollar conglomerate, Advance Publications, which owns The Post-Standard. Would news broken by the Post-Standard put a damper on the $15 million gift given by the S.I. Newhouse Foundation to Syracuse University? According to The Post-Standard’s timeline, ESPN was not aware of the Bernie Fine accusations prior to April 6, 2003, when they interviewed Jim Boeheim for an episode of “Outside The Lines.” It wasn’t until June 2003 that Bobby Davis contacted ESPN with the recorded conversation with Laurie Fine. In a statement made by ESPN Senior Vice President & Director Vince Doria, ESPN could not confirm that the voice in the audio Bobby Davis provided was that of Laurie Fine. Doria stated that ESPN knew the police had told Davis that the statute of limitations was expired, so ESPN did not pursue additional action with the Syracuse police. The relationship between Syracuse and ESPN runs much deeper than the millions of dollars paid to the Big East for broadcasting college basketball games. Many of ESPN’s sportscasters and journalists are graduates of Syracuse’s S. I. Newhouse School of Public Communications.
Syracuse alumni employed by ESPN include Mike Tirico, Jayson Stark, Anish Shroff, Dave Ryan, Dave Pasch, Sean McDonough, Matthew Berry, Steve Bunin and David Amber.ESPN’s parent company, Walt Disney, has done business with Advance Publications (Newhouse’s conglomerate) prior to 2003, buying Fairchild Publications from Disney for $650 million in 1999.: bleacherreport.com/articles/963579-why-wouldnt-espn-and-the-post-standard-publish-bernie-fine-allegations-in-2003Do you have anything to post on this subject other than inaccurate statements of chronology and facts, conspiracy theories, ridiculous defenses of Joe Paterno, and statements of guilt by association? Ahh, classic tactic by the mob. Attack the poster instead of the argument.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 1, 2011 16:25:15 GMT -5
Yeah, I just read that article and Fine and Boeheim disgust me. What I also find interesting is this is the first time I've read some graphic details on what happened. Things that would really sway public opinion. It's interesting that there were all sorts of graphic details on the things Sandusky did in the media and on TV, yet the graphic details on Fine have been kept quiet. Warning: Graphic details from the above article below: ""He talked about things such as, 'He ejaculated me, and he wiped me off, and it was the first time that it had ever happened and it actually felt good to me. I wondered if I was gay, and then I ran out of his house four blocks down my street to my house, crying," Schwarz said of what Davis told him. "There was a terror when he told these stories. He put himself back in that bed of Bernie Fine's when he was 12 years old. "Arty Berko and I looked in this kid's eye and listened to his stories of terror. There was nothing that wasn't credible about them. He was reliving a train wreck every moment when we asked him these questions, and he talked in great detail about everything that happened to him. Eight years later when I visited him, he reiterated the stories in almost the same language and cadence and detail that he did eight years earlier." Read more: sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/richard_deitsch/12/01/espn.mark.schwarz.syracuse.bernie.fine/index.html#ixzz1fJvVx7ox"
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 1, 2011 16:28:48 GMT -5
Were you part of the mob that was outraged with Penn State and Paterno? Mob, no. Was I outraged? Yes. See my posts on this site, same subject. Do you share a similar outrage at what happened to the poor kid in the Fine scandal?
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 1, 2011 16:29:44 GMT -5
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