rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Nov 9, 2011 11:20:36 GMT -5
I'm not sure about the janitor, but who are you going to believe - a paid graduate assistant who was your former QB - not a third string corner or a placekicker - but your former starting quarterback, or a retired volunteer coach who has already been charged with the same sort of stuff? Mike McQueary was not a peon. The fact that McQueary didn't stop it is mindboggling to me. So what? That's a complete cop out. It's not like were talking about walking in on someone littering. They saw a grown man raping a 10-year- old. There's no rationalizing a failure to report and follow up on that. Sorry for the miscommunication. McQueary deserves a significant amount of blame in this. He could have brought this all to a screeching halt a decade ago and chose not to. At the very least, you'd think he would have followed up six months later when Sandusky's still showing up on campus with at-risk kids in tow. The more important issue is that everyone involved, including the local law enforcement, apparently deferred to JoePA, and he washed his hands of it. JoePA opted to trust the creepy volunteer coach over the eyewitness testimony of his ex-QB. Instead, he didn't have a problem with it and therefore no one else did either. Everyone can sleep soundly as a result.
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Nov 9, 2011 11:33:51 GMT -5
Paterno was in denial. He was way too close to Sandusky and didn't want to believe or didn't believe the charges. That's certainly no excuse but i can see how it happened.
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 9, 2011 11:38:17 GMT -5
Jor announced his retirement effective the end of the season. That will really limit what the Board of Trustees can do, now. Joe can talk before 4 or 5 more games this season, which they will not want him to do. He's delusional if he thinks he has the power to call his own shot here. This will snowball until they fire him.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Nov 9, 2011 11:45:22 GMT -5
What do you honestly suppose happens to the janitor or graduate assistant who reports this to the local/university police? Who are you going to believe, some peon or one of the guys who put your school on the map, took you to two national titles, and who has done so much for so many underprivileged children over the years? Hey... there's also the KID! If the police investigate, they are going to find the kid, and then they'll find the truth. A janitor, a low level guy who doesn't want to lose his job? OK. But McQueary? Former PSU QB? He was 28 at the time. Old enough to know what to do rather than run home to daddy. And yes, Paterno was the man in charge AND he had undoubtedly been aware of the previous instance. He HAS to let the police know. It's part of his job. It's part of the responsibility that comes with being a leader. No room to let him skate on this one.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Nov 9, 2011 12:22:45 GMT -5
TC, the last thing the trustees want is for JoePa to take them to court. They need his support, he was going anyway. The economic fall out from the alums for firing him would be unbearable. The athletic department pays for itself- $110M, pays for the scvholarships for 29 teams, salaries and all. No way they fire him.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 9, 2011 12:25:37 GMT -5
Typical Coach who is all powerful and all knowing on all issues UNTIL it's something that proves they ignored doing the right thing and handling things properly. Then they become clueless to all things, only know about their sport and nothing else, etc......
All I can say is the questions that need to be asked and are not:
1. Why in the hell was Sandusky allowed to ****ing workout at Penn State last week? We know they knew about the alleged events, so WTF is going on?
2. Coaching community is like teacher's lounge at a school--gossip/rumors go around. Someone knew something about this and it had to get back to Paterno even after he reported the incident. You hear things about coaches with coeds all the time, coaches who do drugs/heavy drinkers, cheating on their wives, etc.....and that isn't even with the process that took place with PSU. So Paterno never heard someone ask something to him about Sandusky?
3. Since Sandusky was allowed to be around program AFTER the incident took place, has anyone ever asked Paterno about Sandusky--post departure? Booster club talks? Former Players? Public speaking events, etc....? Did anyone say "What is former Coach Sandusky up to" and in a manner they are just curious what a popular/longtime assistant is up to and what did Paterno say about matter? Did he speak glowingly? Change subject? Etc..??
4. How in the hell do you hold a rally for a coach who oversees a a situation where he knowingly hears the details---"60 year old man, 10 year old boy, sexual act in shower which is molestation". Oh pass it on to my boss? **** THAT! You take that to authorities immediately and let them handle it. It's NOT a Penn State issue--it's an issue for GA, Sandusky and Cops to deal with at that point, not "the process" of PSU.
If you really give a damn about kids and not just kids who help you win games, then show it but once again, with chance to do the proper thing, Paterno shows he cares about 1 thing--himself and will "retire" at end of year. He retired 15-20 years ago and has been paid for being a figure head/dictator and proves he still doesn't understand the impact of what is going on/what went on and how devastating it is. It's beyond sick--he needs to be in prison as due the rest of the people who allowed this deviant, sociopath to prey on children.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 9, 2011 12:25:44 GMT -5
The economic fall out from the alums for firing him would be unbearable. If this is actually the case, wow.
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 9, 2011 12:27:42 GMT -5
TC, the last thing the trustees want is for JoePa to take them to court. They need his support, he was going anyway. The economic fall out from the alums for firing him would be unbearable. They're going to pay more in terms of awful media if they don't. They should absolutely fire him tomorrow. You said yesterday his contract was up at the end of the season - they could easily pay him to go away. I think in your zest to defend Penn State you're underestimating how distasteful everyone finds this including the alumni.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 9, 2011 12:30:28 GMT -5
One comment on one minor point: It doesn't make it right, but McQueary would have never worked in college coaching again, and never in Pennsylvania coaching anywhere. He still should have reported it to the police. But the coaching fraternity concept is also ridiculous.
On a bigger topic, this is the latest is a long line of "sportswriters should never, ever say so and so is a good guy" because you never know these people. You didn't know Steve Garvey, or Kobe Bryant or Kirby Puckett. You didn't know Jerry Sandusky and the rest of the folks involved.
You don't know any of these people. We don't know John Thompson III or Pops or Jack DeGioia. For all we know, JTIII killed someone last week for disagreeing with him. Probably not, but it's something to keep in mind.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 9, 2011 12:32:17 GMT -5
For the past decade or so, Paterno has been an embarrassment to Penn State. He's clearly holding on to a job he has no ability to perform anymore. And with this news, he is revealed as an absolute disgrace — a disgusting human being.
Rationalize for him all you want. Buy the doddering old man act all you want. He has acted despicably, immorally and has abjectly failed the common good of a community that worships him. He'll get what he deserves in the next life, which isn't too far off for him.
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 9, 2011 12:34:51 GMT -5
One comment on one minor point: It doesn't make it right, but McQueary would have never worked in college coaching again, and never in Pennsylvania coaching anywhere. He still should have reported it to the police. But the coaching fraternity concept is also ridiculous. No, McQueary will never work in college coaching again now. If he coaches one more game for Penn State, there's going to be outrage, and I can't imagine what people are going to shout at him in an opposing stadium. He's easy to pick out of a crowd. If there's ever going to be a poster child for why you should do the right thing rather than covering your own ass and laying low, it's going to be him. You can argue him being blackballed all you want, but I can't envision that happening for this. If there's an excuse for going outside of chain-of-command, it's this.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 9, 2011 12:44:55 GMT -5
And yet, the assistant who ratted out Dave Bliss still has no job but Bliss does. I realize Bliss' crime was less vile than this crime, so you may be right, but the idea that going outside the chain of command is irrelevant for non-sports ethical issues isn't true. I'm not saying you're saying that argument, but basically we're to the point where -- "is this more offensive enough than what Bliss did to keep that from happening?"
I'm not excusing McQueary. It was more of a parallel that I thought of that frankly brings back the disgust I have for the general rules of the coaching "community."
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Nov 9, 2011 12:45:07 GMT -5
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 9, 2011 12:49:08 GMT -5
And yet, the assistant who ratted out Dave Bliss still has no job but Bliss does. I don't believe there's any comparison you can make here between Abar Rouse taping conversations to protect himself and how McQueary would have been treated for stopping the rape of a child. Rouse doesn't have a job because people think he is sneaky, underhanded, and weak - he taped conversations and that's the fault people have with him and that's why he's seen as a liability, not because he went outside chain-of-command. Would he have been blackballed like this if he had not taped Bliss and let the dominoes fall? Would he experience the same sort of blackballing at the high school level going for a head coaching job - rather than the assistant jobs he has tried for? McQueary will not have a job going forward because people will think basically he's spineless and weak.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 9, 2011 12:53:46 GMT -5
I heard Paterno's address to the crowd on the news last night, and all I can say is, ugh. He really seems to not grasp the enormity of what's transpired here. What's more, if Paterno really cares about the team, what's his best course of action? I say to retire immediately. He's going to lead these kids into Columbus and Madison? It's going to be a complete circus. I think he owes it to the team to retire and let the players get on with their lives. They certainly didn't do anything wrong.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Nov 9, 2011 13:04:20 GMT -5
A lot of PSU alumns shifted their giving from the catholic church after all the info came out about the priests cover-ups to other places including PSU which saw a marked increase in donations, how ironic.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 9, 2011 13:07:36 GMT -5
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Nov 9, 2011 13:11:59 GMT -5
Woah.....one of the articles says Sandusky victims closer to 20. Geesh. Just awful.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Nov 9, 2011 13:13:20 GMT -5
I feel for McQueary. Paterno runs the program. You see that, you assume that Paterno will make everything right, because he's *Paterno*. If you see Sandusky around, you assume that Paterno talked, and it was horsing around - maybe you tell yourself you didn't see things right. You can rationalize a lot of things.
It takes a lot of guts for a junior person to go against orders, which is why the parallel for this that springs to mind is cases in Vietnam where junior officers received illegal orders and yet felt massive pressure to carry them out. Some people refused and blew the whistle, but it's very hard.
The blame has to go to Paterno. If you create a system where you run things, you have to run them right. Paterno did not.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 9, 2011 13:23:38 GMT -5
I feel for McQueary. Paterno runs the program. You see that, you assume that Paterno will make everything right, because he's *Paterno*. If you see Sandusky around, you assume that Paterno talked, and it was horsing around - maybe you tell yourself you didn't see things right. You can rationalize a lot of things. It takes a lot of guts for a junior person to go against orders, which is why the parallel for this that springs to mind is cases in Vietnam where junior officers received illegal orders and yet felt massive pressure to carry them out. Some people refused and blew the whistle, but it's very hard. The blame has to go to Paterno. If you create a system where you run things, you have to run them right. Paterno did not. How do you not pull that pervert off a 10 year old boy? I can just imagine his conversation with his dad later. "Hey Dad, I was just over at the football offices and walked in on Coach Sandusky sodomizing a 10 year old. What's for dinner?"
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