JPM32
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 216
|
Post by JPM32 on Mar 10, 2005 20:18:27 GMT -5
Before I say anything I just want to say that unless they pull out a miracle win over the Huskies I understand why the Hoyas are going to be left out of the tourney. They had a chance down the stretch, their fate was in their hands, and they blew it. However, I want to ask the members of this board if they can explain to me why a few teams are going to be getting in over us. The absolute #1 team on my list is the NC State Wolfpack. Everyone seems to say they are going to the tourney and I have absolutely no idea why. Look at their resume and see if you can figure it out. They went 17-12 in the regular season. They had a losing record in conference play. They only have ONE win over a tourney bound team, and that was against Georgia Tech, a likely 8-9 seed, at home, and without B.J. Elder!! Their best non-conference win was a 7 point victory at home against a pathetic Purdue team. They went 0-2 against the Big East, losing by double digits to St. John's and at home against WVU. And, possibly worst of all, they lost to UVA. At home. This team is getting in over Georgetown? ? WHY??? Someone fill me in on what I am missing. The other teams they seem to be tourney bound for no apparent reason. Iowa St. 17-10 (9-7) in the perenially overrated Big 12. They have losses at home to the juggernauts of Colorado and Nebraska on their resume. UCLA 18-9 (11-7) in the Pac-10, hardly the Big East itself. They dropped their first conference tourney game in Los Angeles to the feisty Beavers of Oregon St. I like what Ben Howland is doing there but they are a year away. Stanford 17-11 (11-7) in Pac-10. Again not nearly as tough a conference as the Big East. I like to call them "Notre Dame West" as all of their quality wins have come on their home floor. Georgetown as well all know went 16-11 this year, 8-8 in the Big East, which in my mind is without a doubt the best conference in America, top to bottom. They have a pair of quality wins on the road against Pittsburgh and Villanova, two tournament bound teams. They also have that win over West Virginia which is looking better and better with each passing day. It is easy to say that the Hoyas don't deserve to get into the tournament and I agree with a lot of the reasons people are giving. I'm just saying that when you consider who appears to be in line to get in over us... it doesn't make any sense. What makes any of the above teams more deserving of a tourney nod than the Hoyas?
|
|
Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
|
Post by Big Dog on Mar 10, 2005 21:06:54 GMT -5
How about UCLA going in and walloping Notre Dame at ND, something the Hoyas couldn't do. That game gives the Pac-10 teams a huge leg up. Dems da breaks.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
|
Post by NCHoya on Mar 10, 2005 21:11:46 GMT -5
I agree, the other teams we are competing against are sucking it up. We played our best game in our last game, that should count for something, but it will not. I think people are really overlooking all the mid-majors who played so much better than any of these big conference bubble teams including us. I think they are the ones the committee will turn to. I am thinking teams like UAB and such.
Let's be excited about a probable run in the NIT and a chance to see our Hoyas play someone outside this damn conference! I think an extended season can really do our young guys some good, tournament experience is priceless even in the NIT.
|
|
HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
Posts: 1,329
|
Post by HOYAPLAYA on Mar 10, 2005 21:18:10 GMT -5
I say we make this the "Can anyone explain this to me?" post...
Can anyone explain to me...
where the hell was this Darrel Owens that we've seen the past two days during the Big East schedule?
why I'm sitting here thinking about how well Ray Reed played in the game tonight and starting to wonder if he won't be seeing more minutes next year as opposed to less?
why I stood in my living room and applauded my Hoyas for their effort after the buzzer went off?
and finally... why the hell NC. St, Iowa St., UCLA and Stanford get in over us. I would bet that NC St. would have been about 4-12 or 5-11 in our league this year.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Mar 10, 2005 21:24:38 GMT -5
How about Minnesota who has one good win-- at home against Wisconsin. Otherwise they got waxed by every team worth mentioning in a TERRIBLE Big 10--for all the talk of "body of work" how about the "body of a CONFERENCE". You get past Illinois and Michigan State and the league is marginal at best.
And one thing on Playa's comments about Ray Reed, I think you can't get too carried away with one game either way, but the thing Ray has to learn is that if he'd play this way--knowing his role--every game, he'd be one of the most valuable players on the team and get a lot of minutes--nothing better than a stopper and guy who can rag the basketball. That's as valuable as it comes. So I hope Ray learns his role is important and accepts it because he outplayed Williams the last 5 minutes of the game and really led our comeback with his defense.
Darrel Owens, please play like this if you return next year. I loved his demeanor on the floor and confidence. He's got the talent and always has--of course he might have just started to feel comfortable knowing his role and the offense more. Still, if he returns, play as confident as you did in BET because I loved effort and intelligence on court.
GREAT JOB GUYS!
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 10, 2005 21:39:47 GMT -5
NC State's (provided they lose to Wake) and our resumes look identical -- except they have two more games (a win and a loss versus Top 50-100 types) and the teams that beat them (UNC, Duke, Wake) are better than the teams that beat us (BC, Cuse, UConn, Illinois).
Whoopty-doo.
|
|
SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,402
|
Post by SaxaCD on Mar 10, 2005 21:54:05 GMT -5
The only difference: They were picked by some to be top 25 before the season began. It's amazing how much meaningless pre-season polls can play on the minds of people talking about tourney teams. I don't think ANY team with a losing conference record should ever get into the NCAA tournament. As a matter of fact, I'd propose it as a rule.
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,245
|
Post by hoyarooter on Mar 10, 2005 22:10:13 GMT -5
1. NC State - because Tony Bethel is on the team. Oh, and also because they play in the almighty ACC, which is, as we all know, only 1/2 step below the NBA.
2. Iowa State - I think their performance in the Big 12 tournament will determine their fate. They have some very good wins and very bad losses.
3. UCLA - see Big Dog's post. Also, the loss to Oregon State became meaningless as the year went on, because Oregon State was 8-1 in the conference at home. Of course, there was also today's loss to Oregon State, so I don't know where that leaves the Bruins.
4. Stanford - 11 wins in the Pac 10, beat UCLA twice, and continued to play well even after losing their leading scorer.
5. Minnesota - 20 wins, including 10 in the Big 10? I don't know, I think Minnesota is the weakest of this group. I think Iowa is better than Minnesota, but how do you put them in and leave Minnesota out?
|
|
|
Post by showcase on Mar 10, 2005 23:01:08 GMT -5
Seems like the teams that we're competing with for the last few spots (only nominally, I know) have a much more uneven performance. Sure, the Hoyas lost two games they shouldn't have as the season wound down, but they had a more even performance over the season as a whole, whereas some of these other teams like ISU have had really big wins and really big losses.
Shouldn't the committee really be looking for teams that have a better chance of playing up to their potential in any given game? Guess it won't make a difference, since I'd be surprised if any of these teams make it barring an impressive performance by those that are still ing the running).
|
|
JPM32
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 216
|
Post by JPM32 on Mar 11, 2005 0:38:14 GMT -5
The only difference: They were picked by some to be top 25 before the season began. It's amazing how much meaningless pre-season polls can play on the minds of people talking about tourney teams. I don't think ANY team with a losing conference record should ever get into the NCAA tournament. As a matter of fact, I'd propose it as a rule. Bingo. It's so unfair. And I hear ya Bigdog about that UCLA win over the Irish. But I still dont think those Pac 10 teams should be going to the Dance over us. Neither of them would be able to go 8-8 in the Big East. While we're on the subject....how about Texas? Other than that one huge win over Oklahoma St. their resume was weak going into the Big 12 tourney where they lost by double digits to Colorado... do they really deserve a bid more than we do? UConn would beat them by 20.
|
|
david
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 157
|
Post by david on Mar 11, 2005 0:55:37 GMT -5
texas does not belong on the list. despite two big wins over ok state, they havent been up for it. they just lost to colorado earlier tonight in the 1st round of the big 12 tourney ... i dont think they will get in.
|
|
|
Post by Fan Of The Game on Mar 11, 2005 1:47:26 GMT -5
Well Nevada is now taking at at-large bid from somebody.
|
|
HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
Posts: 1,329
|
Post by HOYAPLAYA on Mar 11, 2005 7:15:22 GMT -5
And watch the Conference USA tourney because Charlotte and Cincy are single-handedly trying to add a bid for their conferences with last night's performances.
|
|
HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
Posts: 1,329
|
Post by HOYAPLAYA on Mar 11, 2005 7:23:01 GMT -5
And one thing on Playa's comments about Ray Reed, I think you can't get too carried away with one game either way, but the thing Ray has to learn is that if he'd play this way--knowing his role--every game, he'd be one of the most valuable players on the team and get a lot of minutes--nothing better than a stopper and guy who can rag the basketball. That's as valuable as it comes. So I hope Ray learns his role is important and accepts it because he outplayed Williams the last 5 minutes of the game and really led our comeback with his defense. Definitely true about the one game thing, but if he can get a reputation for being a good on the ball defender, then you'll be surprised how many of those fouls that we're overagressive/stupid this year, won't be called next year. Ray Reed is an example of someone who needs to be in the gym shooting 100's of jump shots a day until next season. That is the only way that he will play next year unless Sapp and Thornton just aren't all they are cracked up to be. Also, if he can knock down an occasional 3, then I see no reason why Wallace should start over him next year. I like Wallace but he just doesn't keep up on the defensive end and an improved Reed could be a better option due to his ability to create points/turnovers with his defense. He's got a long ways to go, but I think the competition next year will make them all better. Depth isn't just for being able to bring someone in when someone is having an off night or getting into foul trouble, it's also about the ability to match up against a skilled player every day in practice so that your moves become second nature come game time.
|
|
GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
|
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 11, 2005 9:37:20 GMT -5
UCLA is fine with me. The OSU loss didn't change my mind that they should be in. They're 11-7 in the Pac-10 and as such I have no problem with them being in. And now, the rundown that I bored everyone with last night:
Pac-10 UCLA, Stanford, Washington (3)
Big Ten Michigan St., Wisconsin, Minnesota, (3)
C-USA Depaul, Cincy, Charlotte (3)
SEC Miss St., LSU, Florida, Alabama (4)
Big East BC, 'Nova, 'Cuse, Pitt, WVU (5)
ACC GA Tech, Duke, Wake (3)
Big XII Oklahoma, OSU, Texas, Texas Tech, Iowa St. (5)
WCC St. Mary's (1)
MVC Southern Illinois (1)
WAC Nevada (1)
So there you have it, 29 bids filled. The last five will be had by the following teams:
Indiana, VA Tech, Maryland, NC State, Notre Dame, UAB, Georgetown, GW, New Mexico, a MAC team
Basically 10 teams for 5 spots. Here's the story:
Maryland: ESPN loves them to go. Don't buy it sports fans. If they get a bid the selection committee will be burned by every team that didn't get in. 7-10 in conference is bad enough but 4-9 on the road does them in. I don't think they get a bid. If they do, start an investigation.
NC State: If they beat Wake, they go. If not, the hype on them is exactly that--hype. They beat up on creampuffs in the OOC (best win was Louisiana Lafayette at home), didn't leave North Carolina until almost Christmas, and managed to go 7-9 in-conference (8-10 if they lose to Wake). The committee would have to love the ACC as much as ESPN. I don't think they do.
VA Tech: Disturbingly bad on the road(3-9) where they lost to VMI. Did manage to go 8-8 in-conference. A GA Tech win makes things interesting.
A MAC Team: Just the title should rule this option out. The MAC teams are so good, you can insert any of the seemingly 40-some 11-7 MAC teams with mediocre resumes in this space. Buffalo might have the best shot but their big wins are Miami of Ohio at home, a home win over Miami of Ohio, and that one win they had at home over Miami of Ohio.
UAB: Tough call here but if Depaul is in, I have to say the Blazers deserve a bid. Zero top 50 wins in a down conference. 20 wins and 10 conference wins might put them over the hump.
Indiana: Awful road record and poor league strangely counteracted by being Indiana. They're likely in.
GW: Another tough call here, but without another bad loss might sneak in just because there is nobody else.
New Mexico: AKA "The team I hate worse than the ACC schools" because they have an enormous home court advantage, and play in a truly terrible MWC where they lost four games. Still, there might be nobody out there to take this bid from them if they make the conference final.
Notre Dame: Death reports greatly exaggerated for the Irish. They have some big wins (BC, UConn, @wvu, @indiana) and while the road record is suspect, there are worse choices for a bid.
Georgetown: You know this one. Struggled down the stretch but still got to .500 in the Big East. Top 25 road win versus 'Nova and another top 50 versus Pitt. Add Notre Dame and WVU wins and a blowout of turtle-killing Clemson and the Hoyas have a resume with only one thing missing: a few more wins.
The caveat here is of course this all means nothing and the selection committee goes straight RPI. In that case, pick your favorite Missouri Valley Conference team to cheer for a get ready for an oddly talented NIT.
|
|
FOTP
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,435
|
Post by FOTP on Mar 11, 2005 10:02:37 GMT -5
Bingo. This is what I've been talking about on other threads. It will be 10 teams for a handful of spots and we'll be in the mix.
When you remove the name from the top we have an outside chance.
The teams we're competing with are wildly flawed IMO. We are too, don't get me wrong, but I just can't accept the talking heads who automatically assume we're not getting in.
The committee surprised people every year with a team or two.
I'm not saying we're 50/50, but I do think we have a 5-10% of sneaking into the last spot or two.
I'm going to hope. Nothing wrong with a little hope.
|
|
JPM32
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 216
|
Post by JPM32 on Mar 11, 2005 10:18:23 GMT -5
While we are on the topic of bubble teams... did anyone else find Texas beating Oklahoma St. in Stillwater last Saturday a little TOO strange?
I mean I had watched Texas hosting OU on Big Monday earlier that week (and I mean really watched, I had bet a lot of money on the Horns -2) and they got absolutely demolished. They couldn't do anything right. The announcers were talking about how the team had been playing so poorly recently because of several injuries they had incurred.
So needless to say when I heard the same Horns team had gone into Stillwater, in front of the ESPN Gameday crew mind you, and beat the Pokes, who had the longest home winning streak in all of college basketball, I was completely stunned. Just floored by the result of that game. How could that possibly have happened? I guess Texas had found their stride? Eventually I let it go...another team was off the bubble and into the Dance... lets move on.
However, when I saw that last night in the Big 12 tournament that the Colorado Buffaloes, a pitiful team that would likely finish dead last in the Big East, had beat Texas by double digits on a neutral floor, it threw up red flags. What is going on here???
I am about to propose something radical. Call me crazy or just paranoid if you want. I am proposing that the Big 12, in order to ensure a 6th bid to the NCAA tournament had Oklahoma St. lie down in front of the national audience and let Texas win. Whats the downside there? The Pokes will still get a high seed if they do well in the conference tournament. And the Horns are going Dancing despite a very medicore resume and a first round exit in the conference tournament. Anyways... thats what I think.... I know it sounds ridiculous, but I really think its a possibility.
|
|
Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
|
Post by Cambridge on Mar 11, 2005 10:38:45 GMT -5
Our updated resume: Avg RPI Win: 156.9 Avg RPI Loss: 50.3 Win-Loss: 17-12 OCC: 8-3 Last 10 Games: 4-6 RPI: 72 (61 old RPI) Conf RPI: 3 Record by RPI: Overall: Totals | RPI 1-25 | RPI 26-50 | W-L Records | RPI 51-100 | RPI 101-150 | RPI 150+ | 17-12 | 1-7 | 2-0 | Overall | 3-2 | 3-1 | 7-1 | 9-5 | 0-3 | 1-0 | Home | 1-0 | 2-1 | 6-1 | 4-5 | 1-3 | 1-0 | Away | 1-1 | 1-0 | 0-1 | 3-2 | 0-1 | 0-0 | Neutral | 1-1 | 1-0 | 1-0 |
Out of Conference: Totals | RPI 1-25 | RPI 26-50 | OOC | RPI 51-100 | RPI 101-150 | RPI 150+ | 8-3 | 0-1 | 0-0 | Overall | 2-1 | 0-1 | 6-0 | 5-2 | 0-1 | 0-0 | Home | 0-0 | 0-1 | 5-0 | 1-0 | 0-0 | 0-0 | Away | 1-0 | 0-0 | 0-0 | 2-1 | 0-0 | 0-0 | Neutral | 1-1 | 0-0 | 1-0 |
Conference: Totals | RPI 1-25 | RPI 26-50 | BE Play | RPI 51-100 | RPI 101-150 | RPI 150+ | 9-9 | 1-5 | 2-0 | Overall | 1-2 | 4-0 | 1-1 | 5-3 | 0-2 | 1-0 | Home | 1-1 | 2-0 | 1-0 | 3-5 | 1-3 | 1-0 | Away | 0-1 | 1-0 | 0-1 | 1-1 | 0-1 | 0-0 | Neutral | 0-0 | 1-0 | 0-0 |
Results by RPI: RPI | Opponents | Score | RPI | Opponents | Score | RPI | Opponents | Score | RPI | Opponents | Score | 4 | Illinois | 59-74 | 34 | @ Pitt | 67-64 | 66 | @ ND | 64-70 | 104 | Temple | 57-75 | 8 | @ BC | 49-64 | 50 | WVU | 67-60 | 66 | ND | 55-54 | 128 | N Seton Hall | 56-51 | 12 | @ UConn | 64-83 | | | | 76 | @ Davidson | 76-51 | 128 | Seton Hall | 61-51 | 12 | N UConn | 62-66 | | | | 93 | N Clemson | 75-60 | 139 | @ Rutgers | 61-56 | 12 | UConn | 59-66 | | | | 94 | N Oral R. | 63-81 | 139 | Rutgers | 62-55 | 14 | @ Nova | 66-64 | | | | 95 | Provodence | 65-68 | 162 | @ St. John's | 67-76 | 14 | Nova | 56-67 | | | | | | | 162 | St. John's | 66-57 | 21 | @syracuse | 73-78 | | | | | | | 217 | Penn St | 66-53 | | | | | | | | | | 257 | N L.B. St | 57-51 | | | | | | | | | | 269 | Norfolk St | 78-70 | | | | | | | | | | 277 | San Jose St | 58-40 | | | | | | | | | | 296 | Citadel | 69-34 | | | | | | | | | | 322 | Howard | 79-56 |
Last 10 Games: 8 | @ Boston Coll | 49-64 | 128 | Seton Hall | 61-51 | 139 | @ Rutgers | 61-56 | 50 | West Virginia | 67-60 | 66 | @ Notre Dame | 64-70 | 162 | @ St. John's | 67-76 | 14 | Nova | 56-67 | 12 | @ UConn | 64-83 | 95 | Providence | 65-68 | 128 | N Seton Hall | 56-51 | 12 | N UConn | 62-66 |
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,427
|
Post by MCIGuy on Mar 11, 2005 11:05:53 GMT -5
The Hoyas lost six of their final seven games. Included in those losses were two against St John's and Providence who aren't going even to the NIT. I'm not sure the other teams you mentioned performed as badly at the end of the season.
|
|
bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
|
Post by bmartin on Mar 11, 2005 12:28:58 GMT -5
The last four or five teams in will be teams who would not get bids in a normal year. With automatic bids and deserving at-larges I could only come up with 59 teams that I think have earned a bid. So the last 6 teams or so (an undeserving team may "earn" an automatic and knock a deserving team to at-large) will be teams with what would otherwise be NIT resumes - at or near .500 league records with a few good wins and a few bad losses. Everyone of those other teams in play for these gift bids have losses similar to the St. John's or Providence losses.
|
|