SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 6, 2011 17:09:49 GMT -5
It's a philosophy, one I agree with, that living in the United States comes with inborn advantages that have been paid for by generations of people in resources, time, money and blood. Everything we do is somewhat inter-related and pretending that every person who succeeds did it on their own is ridiculous. It makes no policy statements. It posits a philosophy. ... Now, what does that translate to policy? There's a lot of thought between A and B. But philosophically, there's a big gap, too, between people who believe their success is 100% or close to attributed to their actions and people who believe that you are building off of others and that we function together. Really? That's what you take from a politician painting a picture of the rich getting rich on the back of infrastructure and services that "the rest of us paid for"? A philosophy of inter-reliance devoid of policy implications? No, what I am drawing from is the quote itself, and and what I get is a description of philosophy or view of the world that has very real policy implications, but those implications are varied and can result in a whole range of specific policies. Like I said, I'm not going to comment on Warren's exact internal motivations or her entire worldview. But the quote has taken a life of it's own, and for many people, it has nothing to do with any particular policy implication you're throwing out there. The sentiment isn't scary to me at all, and people who are raging against it should understand why so many people seem to agree with it. The picture you are painting -- "That's what you take from a politician painting a picture of the rich getting rich on the back of infrastructure and services that "the rest of us paid for"?" that's not really in there. You're bringing a lot in to that interpretation. -------------- I do agree with Boz that the rest of us is bad phrasing and I would never want to say it that way. |
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hoya4ever
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Post by hoya4ever on Oct 6, 2011 18:09:32 GMT -5
The phrase that really sticks in my craw in this statement is that one. "The rest of us." So, if she had said "we all paid for," what would your assertion be then? I am trying to understand both sides of this and am having trouble with both. You, of course, understand that the government paid for the roads and, to do that, it taxed everyone. So you pay fro the privilege to create the roads, then you pay for the continuing income that you get from using them. |
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pash
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Post by pash on Oct 6, 2011 21:28:33 GMT -5
So, if she had said "we all paid for," what would your assertion be then? I think, like, Boz, that the "the rest of us" is really the ugly part. It makes the whole statement an "us and them" thing. If you just say "the rich also benefit from stuff we've collectively paid for" or "the rich also benefit from the stuff they've mostly paid for", there's not much there. But it's obvious, if you're not wearing SF's context blinders, what Warren's purpose was in saying what she did. The "us and them" implication was the whole point. I am trying to understand both sides of this and am having trouble with both. You, of course, understand that the government paid for the roads and, to do that, it taxed everyone. So you pay fro the privilege to create the roads, then you pay for the continuing income that you get from using them. . And the subtext plainly seems to be "from each according to his ability". Which, our general acceptance of mildly progressive taxation notwithstanding, is controversial. Hence the controversy. |
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Oct 6, 2011 21:53:03 GMT -5
I love how sensitive the whole non-pc conservative movement becomes when it is convenient.
Also, there is absolutely no "from each according to his ability" subtext there. You pulled it out of thin air.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Oct 7, 2011 9:00:48 GMT -5
She sets up a very convenient vicious circle. Let's increase the power and reach of the government, and once the government is more involved in our daily lives, we can then say that each individuals owes more and more of his or her success to the government, and then the government can take more of each individual's wealth.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 7, 2011 9:27:54 GMT -5
I would just like to add that I too am grateful that Elizabeth Warren did not take her clothes off to pay for college.
;D
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 7, 2011 11:18:40 GMT -5
I would just like to add that I too am grateful that Elizabeth Warren did not take her clothes off to pay for college. ;D That was an absolutely idiotic thing for Brown to have said, and it is getting a lot of play here. And let's be honest about the double-standard - if Elizabeth Warren had taken off her clothes in college, she would have no chance of being nominated or elected. |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 7, 2011 11:35:38 GMT -5
Poppycock.
When even Mika Bryzynski says it's more or less harmless and just joking around -- and this is a woman who will get offended at the drop of a hat -- I think people are making much ado about very little.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 8, 2011 4:08:10 GMT -5
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Oct 8, 2011 7:36:51 GMT -5
IMO, this is much ado about nothing on both sides. I can only hope that kc's original post was designed to generate discussion about (take a shot at) Warren, which it certainly has done, and is in keeping with his posting style. I hope that even he realizes that there is nothing "scary" in that quote, though he does up the ante with this gem: What?  The woman was just talking, and she's only human. Could it have been phrased just a little differently? Of course, but it's conversation, not a written document. No proofreading and spell check. She's just a person. Brown probably should have kept the joke about her to himself and those close to him, but he isn't perfect either. Though he's a senator, he's just a person, too. How many times have all of us cracked somewhat derogatory jokes at the expense of others? Answer? Lots. Why? Because they're funny! IMO, that one does not cross the line. Hell, I look forward to Boz doing it a few times a day, even if it's at my expense! ;D Nice job at generating discussion, kc. Now, diss-cuss on. |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Oct 8, 2011 10:58:47 GMT -5
IMO, this is much ado about nothing on both sides. I can only hope that kc's original post was designed to generate discussion about (take a shot at) Warren, which it certainly has done, and is in keeping with his posting style. I hope that even he realizes that there is nothing "scary" in that quote, though he does up the ante with this gem: What? The woman was just talking, and she's only human. Could it have been phrased just a little differently? Of course, but it's conversation, not a written document. No proofreading and spell check. She's just a person. Brown probably should have kept the joke about her to himself and those close to him, but he isn't perfect either. Though he's a senator, he's just a person, too. How many times have all of us cracked somewhat derogatory jokes at the expense of others? Answer? Lots. Why? Because they're funny! IMO, that one does not cross the line. Hell, I look forward to Boz doing it a few times a day, even if it's at my expense! ;D Nice job at generating discussion, kc. Now, diss-cuss on. She was just talking? Seriously? She's running for the Senate and we're supposed to dismiss what she said because "she was just talking?" Maybe she should carry a teleprompter around with her everywhere. But I don't think anyone would stoop that low. |
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Oct 8, 2011 11:23:11 GMT -5
Just talking in the sense of how her statement was phrased. The essence of what she said is on point, IMO.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 24, 2011 16:01:46 GMT -5
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Oct 28, 2011 9:58:38 GMT -5
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Oct 28, 2011 10:07:18 GMT -5
She might make a better national candidate, considering where her support is coming from: "Nearly 70 percent of the $3.14 million the Harvard Law professor raised in the last quarter came from out of state, according to figures provided by the campaign." articles.boston.com/2011-10-20/news/30302718_1_eric-schneiderman-campaign-fund-campaign-filingsHere's Brown's info: "Brown raised $1.58 million in the July, August, and September quarter, bringing his campaign fund to $10.5 million, according to filings. His campaign says it received 7,135 donations last quarter, most of which - 5,498 - were from Massachusetts" |
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 28, 2011 11:09:55 GMT -5
She might make a better national candidate, considering where her support is coming from: "Nearly 70 percent of the $3.14 million the Harvard Law professor raised in the last quarter came from out of state, according to figures provided by the campaign." So in other words, her contributions are primarily from out-of-state, just like Scott Brown's were in 2010? |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 28, 2011 11:15:29 GMT -5
You gotta' love Dana Milbank and his kneepads/pom-poms.
Since she claims to be the inspiration for OWS, I wonder if any reporters will ask her if she endorses the violence, drug use and alleged sexual assaults at some of those demonstrations.
You know, how every candidate that the Tea Party was behind was asked to answer for that movement's most extreme elements.
Nah, probly not.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Oct 28, 2011 11:18:32 GMT -5
She might make a better national candidate, considering where her support is coming from: "Nearly 70 percent of the $3.14 million the Harvard Law professor raised in the last quarter came from out of state, according to figures provided by the campaign." So in other words, her contributions are primarily from out-of-state, just like Scott Brown's were in 2010? Got a link for this? I'm finding articles about him getting outside help near the end of his campaign but I can't find an article that does a breakdown like the article I cited. |
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Oct 28, 2011 11:25:30 GMT -5
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 28, 2011 11:30:23 GMT -5
Got a link for this? I'm finding articles about him getting outside help near the end of his campaign but I can't find an article that does a breakdown like the article I cited. I also don't think she'd be a great national candidate. |
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;D