EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 30, 2011 9:03:43 GMT -5
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 30, 2011 14:38:15 GMT -5
This was followed quickly by Ron Paul's presidential candidacy being taken out by......some questions and answers.
Like I said, you really do have to admire the guy for, if nothing else, the fact that he is unwavering in his principles.
But this is not going to win him many supporters, particularly Republican supporters, outside of the pure libertarians.
He does make you think though.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 30, 2011 15:21:40 GMT -5
There are a lot of problems with this whole thing. Obama has basically asserted the right to kill an American citizen anywhere without due process or any check on his ability to do so. Bush killed an American citizen too, but since that guy wasn't targeted (he was collateral damage), this is very different. This is not a power an American president should have.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 30, 2011 15:35:36 GMT -5
There are a lot of problems with this whole thing. Obama has basically asserted the right to kill an American citizen anywhere without due process or any check on his ability to do so. Bush killed an American citizen too, but since that guy wasn't targeted (he was collateral damage), this is very different. This is not a power an American president should have. Oh, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that Ron Paul does not have a legitimate point. He is basically saying the same thing that you are, bando. And it is problematic. But such a square peg position does not fit very well into the round "miniature American flags for all" hole of presidential politics.
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 30, 2011 20:51:34 GMT -5
He's not an American as far as I'm concerned.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 1, 2011 6:10:22 GMT -5
He's not an American as far as I'm concerned. You mean Obama, right? kidding, just kidding
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Oct 1, 2011 9:45:09 GMT -5
There are a lot of problems with this whole thing. Obama has basically asserted the right to kill an American citizen anywhere without due process or any check on his ability to do so. Bush killed an American citizen too, but since that guy wasn't targeted (he was collateral damage), this is very different. This is not a power an American president should have. Oh, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that Ron Paul does not have a legitimate point. He is basically saying the same thing that you are, bando. And it is problematic. But such a square peg position does not fit very well into the round "miniature American flags for all" hole of presidential politics. True on all points. One thing I respect about Ron Paul is that he would have said the exact same thing if Bush had given the order. Even as a lefty myself I have to admit that there's quite a few people on my side of the spectrum who would have thrown a tantrum if Bush had given the order, but aren't saying much now since it was Obama who did it. As for me, I understand the ethical/legal concerns, but I still consider this good news. If somebody is in our custody, I believe we need to give them due process, regardless of their citizenship. But if somebody is at large and planning attacks on us, and the one and only way to eliminate that threat is to kill them, I find it hard to object to doing so. It's like a policeman chasing down a heavily armed criminal. Ideally the policeman wants to catch and arrest the criminal, but if the criminal pulls out a grenade and is about to toss it into a crowd, I don't think many people would criticize the policeman for shooting them.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Oct 1, 2011 11:17:15 GMT -5
He's not an American as far as I'm concerned. There are processes to legitimately revoke an American citizen's citizenship, you know. Sen. Lieberman suggested last year that we investigate reforming the system to make it more streamlined and transparent, but was shouted down by the progressives. With this cherry popped/precedent firmly established, I hope Mitt and Rick have started compiling a list of people who aren't really Americans as far as they are concerned.
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Post by strummer8526 on Oct 1, 2011 12:58:58 GMT -5
He's not an American as far as I'm concerned. There are processes to legitimately revoke an American citizen's citizenship, you know. Sen. Lieberman suggested last year that we investigate reforming the system to make it more streamlined and transparent, but was shouted down by the progressives. With this cherry popped/precedent firmly established, I hope Mitt and Rick have started compiling a list of people who aren't really Americans as far as they are concerned. I'm not a presidential candidate. If I were , then maybe who I personally consider "American" would matter a bit more and I'd be a bit more careful about how and when I express such opinions. Mitt and Rick should obey the laws of this country.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 1, 2011 13:33:02 GMT -5
So should your hero Barry O. I can just imagine the Left collective horror if W had pulled this move. Mr. Obama has just appointed himself judge jury and executioner. I personally applud this action but am amazed at the selective ethics/morality of Barry's supporters on the Left.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Oct 3, 2011 13:30:04 GMT -5
So should your hero Barry O. I can just imagine the Left collective horror if W had pulled this move. Mr. Obama has just appointed himself judge jury and executioner. I personally applud this action but am amazed at the selective ethics/morality of Barry's supporters on the Left. You mean like me, who just criticized it? Or Glenn Greenwald? I mean, all the opposition to this is coming from the left (save Ron Paul), so I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Oct 3, 2011 13:35:02 GMT -5
He's not an American as far as I'm concerned. There are processes to legitimately revoke an American citizen's citizenship, you know. Sen. Lieberman suggested last year that we investigate reforming the system to make it more streamlined and transparent, but was shouted down by the progressives. With this cherry popped/precedent firmly established, I hope Mitt and Rick have started compiling a list of people who aren't really Americans as far as they are concerned. The processes as they stand right now all involve defection to another state. al Qaeda isn't a state and thus can't be defected to. You could add NGOs to that, I guess, but that could possibly lead to a slippery slope ("You've pledged to Socialist International/the UN/etc., you're no longer an American!")
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 3, 2011 14:52:27 GMT -5
Where are Reid, Pelosi, Schumer and every jackass who would be bleating like sheep if Bush did this?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 3, 2011 15:04:08 GMT -5
Jackasses bleating like sheep?
I don't know where they are either Elvado, I just thought that phrase was kinda' funny.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Oct 3, 2011 15:40:09 GMT -5
Where are Reid, Pelosi, Schumer and every jackass who would be bleating like sheep if Bush did this? Every bit of sympathy you may elicit on the main board is completely lost with all the hateful garbage you spit on this board.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Oct 3, 2011 15:41:36 GMT -5
Where are Reid, Pelosi, Schumer and every jackass who would be bleating like sheep if Bush did this? Every bit of sympathy you may elicit on the main board is completely lost with all the hateful garbage you spit on this board. So you're saying you wish ill will on his kid?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 3, 2011 16:31:37 GMT -5
Where are Reid, Pelosi, Schumer and every jackass who would be bleating like sheep if Bush did this? Every bit of sympathy you may elicit on the main board is completely lost with all the hateful garbage you spit on this board. You are on very dangerous ground with that one. You could learn a bit about grace, class and understanding from my six year old.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Oct 3, 2011 18:01:11 GMT -5
I think our opinions about Elvado's political views and our support for his kid should be kept as far apart as possible. I don't think I've agreed with a single thing he's ever written on the Blue & Gray Board, but I'm still pulling for Harry, like we all should be.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 3, 2011 18:08:58 GMT -5
Amen and thank you. I can assure everyone that wishing my son well as he fights this battle is simply that. I have never had a political litmus test for who gets to pray and/or hope for my son's recovery.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Oct 3, 2011 19:10:37 GMT -5
I think our opinions about Elvado's political views and our support for his kid should be kept as far apart as possible. I don't think I've agreed with a single thing he's ever written on the Blue & Gray Board, but I'm still pulling for Harry, like we all should be. I have nothing but well wishes for his son. But the only way I know Elvado is as an internet message board persona. And whatever sympathy he has elicited as an online character from me is totally lost when he says crude things on other boards. My statement had everything to do with Elvado, the online character, and nothing to do with his son or his condition.
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