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Post by villacats on Sept 20, 2011 19:38:05 GMT -5
+1 RBHoya. I'm glad somebody is thinking constructively. Most of my fellow VU fans are running around in circles screaming that we've got to stay in the BCS or else we're doomed. I've been steaming ever since I heard Swofford lay claim to the Garden. As far as I'm concerned northeast hoops belongs to us, and I want to see it fought for. I think this could be sold as the CITY GAME. Could appeal to TV, casual fans and recruits as well. You can market a VU-St Johns game as Philadelphia versus New York, trust me when I say people in Phila would root for ladies bowling if it means a shot at beating NY. I know Milwaukee-Chicago is the same way, and potentially Dayton-Cincinnati. As to your heritage point, here's an old favorite that's a good read for those of you new to it that reminds us where we came from: sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1064557/index.htm
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 20, 2011 20:20:48 GMT -5
What RB articulated above is basically what I've been yelping about for the last 48 hours. Thus, I agree with him wholeheartedly.
Those who advocate hanging on to "big boy" conferences are missing the point. That position is moot. The train has left the station. The ship has sailed. We are not wanted. We have no football. If not this year, then in 2 years. Or in 4 years. But it is over for all intents and purposes.
We need to turn a negative into a positive.
We need to control our destiny by aligning with like-minded, basketball schools to re-build a traditional Big East.
Those who advocate sitting back and not acting with urgency strike me as incredibly short-sighted and I honestly can't believe it. The University should be in full-on crisis mode.
The time is now. The University must act decisively asap.
There are a myriad of reasons to act now. One of them is that it will be nearly impossible to attract elite recruits during any period of uncertainty about the future of the University's basketball program.
If the University announces next week the formation of a new, improved, elite basketball conference with like-minded programs, outstanding young coaches, an emphasis on loyalty, tradition, ethics, high academic standards, competing in major U.S. markets with a conference tournament in MSG, then the impact of the dissolution of the former conference on recruiting may be mitigated.
If we stand pat during this swirling vortex and allow our destiny to be shaped by the decisions of others, then we lose control of everything. And the perception will be that Georgetown, the poor child, was dropped into a state of mid-major basketball.
We must believe we have a superior hoops model. We need to tout it. We need to do it now. We can do it.
And to those who are tired of me repeating myself. Too f'ing bad. I am passionate about this because I love the program. And I feel it in every bone of my body that this is the way to proceed.
Shame, shame, shame on us if we seek out an unsustainable, cobbled hodgepodge of football/non-football teams that promote meaningless rivalries, instability, disloyalty, and geographic idiosyncrasies. I believe that to be the worst outcome possible.
Let's build a better mousetrap and sell it to the world.
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Post by fsohoya on Sept 20, 2011 20:34:51 GMT -5
What RB articulated above is basically what I've been yelping about for the last 48 hours. Thus, I agree with him wholeheartedly. Those who advocate hanging on to "big boy" conferences are missing the point. That position is moot. The train has left the station. The ship has sailed. We are not wanted. We have no football. If not this year, then in 2 years. Or in 4 years. But it is over for all intents and purposes. We need to turn a negative into a positive. We need to control our destiny by aligning with like-minded, basketball schools to re-build a traditional Big East. Those who advocate sitting back and not acting with urgency strike me as incredibly short-sighted and I honestly can't believe it. The University should be in full-on crisis mode. The time is now. The University must act decisively asap. There are a myriad of reasons to act now. One of them is that it will be nearly impossible to attract elite recruits during any period of uncertainty about the future of the University's basketball program. If the University announces next week the formation of a new, improved, elite basketball conference with like-minded programs, outstanding young coaches, an emphasis on loyalty, tradition, ethics, high academic standards, competing in major U.S. markets with a conference tournament in MSG, then the impact of the dissolution of the former conference on recruiting may be mitigated. If we stand pat during this swirling vortex and allow our destiny to be shaped by the decisions of others, then we lose control of everything. And the perception will be that Georgetown, the poor child, was dropped into a state of mid-major basketball. We must believe we have a superior hoops model. We need to tout it. We need to do it now. We can do it. And to those who are tired of me repeating myself. Too f'ing bad. I am passionate about this because I love the program. And I feel it in every bone of my body that this is the way to proceed. Shame, shame, shame on us if we seek out an unsustainable, cobbled hodgepodge of football/non-football teams that promote meaningless rivalries, instability, disloyalty, and geographic idiosyncrasies. I believe that to be the worst outcome possible. Let's build a better mousetrap and sell it to the world. I'm with you on this -- I think a hoops-centric league is inevitable, but I don't think we can or should declare its existence in a week or two. For one thing, too much is still unanswered to likely get other schools to commit to it. You also can't throw together a new conference, complete with PR campaign, in a couple of weeks (though I hope there have been contingency plans under consideration for years.) Perhaps most important, having even just a few more years connected to a BCS league to try to get facilities and commitments in order (all under the radar, of course) would be hugely helpful.
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The Stig
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,844
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Post by The Stig on Sept 20, 2011 20:45:10 GMT -5
Why build a new conference? Even if the football schools leave, the Big East name, the contract with MSG, and the exit fees the football schools will have to pay are worth salvaging. Not to mention you'll have 8 fine basketball programs to start your conference with.
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Post by fsohoya on Sept 20, 2011 20:53:37 GMT -5
Why build a new conference? Even if the football schools leave, the Big East name, the contract with MSG, and the exit fees the football schools will have to pay are worth salvaging. Not to mention you'll have 8 fine basketball programs to start your conference with. We should obviously keep the name if possible, but the league will still be very different.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,922
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Post by NCHoya on Sept 20, 2011 21:44:01 GMT -5
I understand the sentiment for stability, everyone likes security, but we are going to be able to make much more money by riding out SU/Pitt for another 2 seasons and then moving along with the hybrid conference that will have a TV contract. I just do not understand the rush to move to this basketball only conference that will undoubtedly result in less money for the University.
I would like to think this may "wake up" our adminstration and reinvest in the program and athletic dept in general. Right now, I do not feel like Gtown could compete resource-wise as a program without a strong conference affiliation. Take the next 4 years to invest and be ready for the inevitable. But until this inevitable situation arises, why rush it? I would assume every other non-fball school feels the same way.
There are not enough teams to add to not accomodate the non-fb schools. They will get to 10 probably by adding 3 programs - UCF, Memphis and Houston/ECU. Yes, Gtown and the non-fb schools will have nearly no input into who to add, but who really cares. If they get Memphis I would be happy from a bball standpoint.
Just no reason to rush things right now, I cannot believe it but it appears cooler heads are prevailing right now. Now its time to reflect on what d-bags Pitt and SU were to leave out of panic.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Sept 20, 2011 21:47:45 GMT -5
Not a Catholic League, but the best I could come up with in the last few hours (and it echoes a lot of what RB and Ranch are saying).
Step 1: Band the BE basketball only schools (7: GU, Nova, SJU, SHU, Marquette, Prov., Depaul) together and ensure they are united. This is what I hope Reed and DeGioia at this very moment.
Step 2: Propose to ND that this united group of 7 will try to recruit 4 other non-D1 football schools to create a conference of 12 that would house their non-football sports. This would allow ND to maintain their football independence, which is the key to gaining their support.
Step 3: Not sure what legal ramifications are involved here, but if this banded group of 8 refuses to be involved with any B12 merger/absorption plan, then I think (assuming UConn and Rutgers are off to the ACC) the remaining 4 BE football schools (Lville, Cinci, USF, WVU) are out of luck. Either merge with the B12 on your own or go knock on C-USA's door. Sorry.
Step 4: Recruit 4 schools that fit the following mold: 1) non D-1 football, 2) good basketball history with recent success, 3) within reasonable geographical proximity of the Northeast, and Midwest east of Chicago, and 4) a b-ball stadium that will accommodate BE standards. The top 4 on my list are: Butler, Xavier, Temple, Dayton. If you can't get those 4, then you may have to dip into the well a little bit and start hunting in the Mid-Atlantic (St. Joe's, Mason, VCU, ODU, etc.). But let's assume we can get those 4.
Step 5: Conference alignment. 12 teams, two 6-team divisions (West and East, Midwest and Coastal, however you want to describe it). West division is comprised of: Marquette, ND, Depaul, Butler, Xavier, Dayton. East division is comprised of: GU, Nova, SJU, SHU, Prov. and Temple. Play your division opponents 2x each, your non-division opponents 1x each for a total of 16 league games. BET tournament (in MSG) goes back to the format it had when it was 12 teams: everyone makes it to NYC and a single bye for the top 4.
Benefits: Reduction of unnecessary travel, maintenance of some historical BE rivalries, possibility of creating new rivalries based on geographical proximity (ND-Butler, etc.), maintenance of some A-10 rivalries (Dayton vs. Xavier, etc.), EMPHASIS ON BASKETBALL, support from ND in exchange for helping them to maintain football independence, keeping the Big East brand and the BET in NYC
Drawbacks: Absolute necessity to sustain excellence throughout conference in the first few years in order to sustain relevance, difficulty in acquiring TV deal
Maybe this is all a pipe dream. But it looks decent enough to me on paper that I would support such a plan if I saw it posted by someone else.
EDIT: Temple is in the MAC for football. But if we don't have a problem with letting them stay there, then it shouldn't be an issue.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Sept 20, 2011 22:22:37 GMT -5
Ranch I really can't disagree with you, in fact your positivity is the only thng i can find any solace in on the board the last few days.
I've said it before, If Georgetown and the other non footballs don't already have plan A,B, and C already to go both individually and as a conference then all the shouting is for not. They have known this day was coming for over ten years and if they didn't then they found out in 2004.
To this day other than investing in an outstanding young coach ( that we got almost by default) what signs has anyone seen that we have made towards preparing for this day.
Where are the financial resources going to come from to go out and sell both Georgetown and the new league. This isn't 1979 where Dave Gavitt could drive over to Bill Rasmussens house and ask him to put on 10 Big East game on esp during the week for 5k a pop and then get Aetna to underwrite most of the leagues expenses for the first year.
Honestly, I seriously doubt there is anyone at the school with the ability, knowledge and drive to make it happen. Some have stated here that Tranghese could do what is needed but even after listening to the Francesca interview i have a hard time putting any faith in the man most responsible for the leagues demise plus the fact that his only objective in his last few years was to provide a soft landing for Providence.
My major problem with jumping right now into this Catholic Conferenceis is that there will be far too many programs operating with the same if not worse financial resources as we have and have been going along for the ride for way too long. Thats not going to be acceptable going forward.
In the End thats not what is really important to me , the league itself is secondary. what Georgetown does out of the gate when this starts up will be very important. If they along with a Nova or StJohns or a Xavier if they come in can establish the same type of dominance that Cinci and Memhis did in the pre 2005 cusa we will be more than alright.
I'm just not sure that we have the people in place to take us there..
Ranch can you take a 4 or 5 year leave of absence??
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Bando
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I've got some regrets!
Posts: 2,431
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Post by Bando on Sept 21, 2011 1:00:17 GMT -5
I understand the sentiment for stability, everyone likes security, but we are going to be able to make much more money by riding out SU/Pitt for another 2 seasons and then moving along with the hybrid conference that will have a TV contract. I just do not understand the rush to move to this basketball only conference that will undoubtedly result in less money for the University. I would like to think this may "wake up" our adminstration and reinvest in the program and athletic dept in general. Right now, I do not feel like Gtown could compete resource-wise as a program without a strong conference affiliation. Take the next 4 years to invest and be ready for the inevitable. But until this inevitable situation arises, why rush it? I would assume every other non-fball school feels the same way. There are not enough teams to add to not accomodate the non-fb schools. They will get to 10 probably by adding 3 programs - UCF, Memphis and Houston/ECU. Yes, Gtown and the non-fb schools will have nearly no input into who to add, but who really cares. If they get Memphis I would be happy from a bball standpoint. Just no reason to rush things right now, I cannot believe it but it appears cooler heads are prevailing right now. Now its time to reflect on what d-bags Pitt and SU were to leave out of panic. I don't think anyone advocating the Catholic (or really, bball-only) conference was disagreeing with you. Speaking for myself only, I was just trying to advocate proactiveness and making the best of a bad situation. Seriously, what actually ended up happening tonight was the least likely thing I thought could happen.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
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Post by GUHoya07 on Sept 21, 2011 1:33:58 GMT -5
I'd like to add my name to the list of people agreeing with RB's points on the previous page.
I'm so sick of being a slave to the football schools. The Big East was founded as a basketball conference, and I'd love to see it free of football once and for all. If the football schools are gone, but we keep the Big East name and add some major basketball programs as has already been suggested I think it could be a great situation for us.
If we remain tied to these football schools I fear they'll always be looking for greener pastures and we'll never have stability.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 21, 2011 7:00:11 GMT -5
We can do this. It will take someone with vision to look-through the short-term noise and ramifications and recognize that we can be part of a pure, elite hoops conference that is the envy of college basketball and the landing spot for top high school talent.
I might have contributed to this a few days ago, but obviously we need to shed the "Catholic Conference" moniker because it really wouldn't take that form as envisioned. Also, the ability to retain the Big East name (and recipient of any SU, UConn, Pitt departure penalties) and MSG rights for our conference tournament is obviously part of the vision.
UNC Coach to TJ Warren - "Boy, it would be awfully tough to pick the Hoyas right now. I don't even know what conference they will be in in 3 years when you are a Junior and looking to impress the NBA scouts."
Crushing.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Sept 21, 2011 7:26:37 GMT -5
In my mind, what has occurred clearly is not as good as if the Big-12 imploded and the remaining schools (conveniently good basketball schools) joined us, thereby keeping 1-A football in the mix and reinvigorating basketball. And this still leaves the possibility that UConn and Rutgers leave anyway, leaving the football schools needing to join the Big-12 but with no room for the basketball schools.
But if (and it's a big if) UConn and W.Va. stay and a football league is cobbled together (I really don't care how), it is still better than preemptively striking out on our own (which we can do at any time and presumably have fully planned for). Sure, it, too, could fall apart eventually, but then we make the same move Ranch is planning for now.
An unintended but wonderful benefit would be sticking it to the ACC: they can't really want to stay at 14 (although they will say they will). They were hoping to have their cake and eat it to by waiting for ND and Texas and thinking they could poach UConn and Rutgers at any time. They may still be right on the latter; we'll see. But it's looking like Texas will stay and N.D. will see no reason to make a move. That could leave them stuck.
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