vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Sept 20, 2011 15:49:06 GMT -5
Bando, its not that people see it as a great evil...its that it is a HUGE stadium that even in the top BBall conference in the country, we do not sell out more then 25%. The games that we DO sell out are usually UConn, Cuse, Pitt, L'ville, and WVU...there goes 3 of those. I agree that McD is much too small for where we are but at the same time, it is beginning to look like Verizon MAY be too big. Over the past couple of seasons our games have routinely surpassed 10,000 people in the stands. We aren't the best fans in the world but we can't keep on lowballing ourselves. I agree with Bando, as of right now I plan on attending every home game I can this season, even the extremely crappy ones like NJIT and Howard. I can do this thanks to the fact that I can just hop on the red line and get there in minutes. If 8,000 fans in the seats is the break even #. We should not have a problem in the near term consistently meeting or breaking that number whatever our future conference may look like.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Sept 20, 2011 15:52:26 GMT -5
*Trying hard to stop posting*... Not to be the "Told ya so" guy, but I am glad to see some people coming around to the need for a place to play games on-campus (and not just a practice facility). I've thought/feared for 5 or 6 years now that a day of reckoning would come, where we'd be split from the football schools and forced to fend for ourselves. And in that scenario, I feel MUCH more optimistic about our chances for success if we have a renovated McDonough that is capable of hosting men's games. NOT a big, new shiny stadium like the Pete or Comcast. But basically, knocking out some walls in McDonough to add in additional and steeper risers to cram more people in. It will not be pretty or state of the art, but it could be a great environment for some home games and would make us a much more stable program. Many people blew off the idea, telling me that McD was too hard to get to, we needed to stay in Verizon. I tried to explain that Verizon is great for a schedule packed with Cuse and UConn and Pitt, but might not be so great if our conference blows up. Here we are. Plus side, there is still a small amount of time if we act fast. Some semblance of the BE is going to exist for another year or two. We can hopefully survive another year or two beyond that by playing in Verizon (with a few McD games per year) before the air starts to come out of the balloon and the attendance starts to dwindle. That SHOULD be enough time to get something done, if the permits and whatnot were in place. Somehow, I doubt it. I suspect we're looking at several years of curtained off upperdecks at Verizon. If we're playing games at an expanded McDonough, then we really are a mid-major. Even a 6000 seat arena would kill season ticket sales (only 100 alumni allowed to go to games!), and the transportation situation would be a complete clusterf---. I continue to be amazed that people see the big enough, on top of a transportation hub Verizon Center as some sort of great evil. We should stay at Verizon for the big games, when people are actually going to come. For the weeknight games against SHU, PC, Depaul etc., have them on campus. The students will take a lot of the seats, preferred parking for the heavy hitters and frequent shuttles from Roslyn Metro for all the other ticket holders. I don't hate Verizon at all, it's just inefficient to rent it out several times per year only to have large swaths of empty seats in the lower bowl (let alone upstairs).
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Sept 20, 2011 15:52:47 GMT -5
I think we'd be looking at shutting down the upper deck a la 2005 for all but a few games. That may make things easier by taking people who would normally be upper deck scraps and putting them in club level type seats. That really isn't the end of the world.
DFW mentioned that we have to hit a certain number (8K I believe) just to break even. We have a billionaire alum who hasn't been the most vocal supporter of Gtown in Ted Leonsis (at least not as vocal as you'd expect from an alum who owns the building we play in). Now may be the time to come to him and ask for a "donation" in the form of a better contract at Verizon.
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KennaHoya
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Post by KennaHoya on Sept 20, 2011 15:58:30 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I just do not see the zoning approvals and permits being forthcoming for an on-campus McDonough that is much different than it is today. And up until the past few days at least, the plans seem to call for renovating McDOnough and the tennis courts for an intercollegiate athletic facility. In other words, thinking we could see an on-campus place to play televised conference games that have any real crowd at all is less likely than (1) joining the Ivy League and (2) UCon deciding to consider anything other than what is in their own best interests just to stay in the Big East.
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Post by HometownHoya on Sept 20, 2011 16:24:06 GMT -5
Bando, its not that people see it as a great evil...its that it is a HUGE stadium that even in the top BBall conference in the country, we do not sell out more then 25%. The games that we DO sell out are usually UConn, Cuse, Pitt, L'ville, and WVU...there goes 3 of those. I agree that McD is much too small for where we are but at the same time, it is beginning to look like Verizon MAY be too big. Over the past couple of seasons our games have routinely surpassed 10,000 people in the stands. We aren't the best fans in the world but we can't keep on lowballing ourselves. I agree with Bando, as of right now I plan on attending every home game I can this season, even the extremely crappy ones like NJIT and Howard. I can do this thanks to the fact that I can just hop on the red line and get there in minutes. If 8,000 fans in the seats is the break even #. We should not have a problem in the near term consistently meeting or breaking that number whatever our future conference may look like. VC, I'm not disagreeing with you at all. We continuously outdraw what it would take to fill up McD...so thats not an option. Currently we have been surviving at Verizon because we have had such a high product and high level off competition. Yes we could stay there if we "break even" at 8,000, but is it worth having very little ticket sales revenue to play in Verizon? Obviously all this depends on where we end up in the future of CBB and who we are playing. I'm just saying that there are more then just McD and Verizon in DC.
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Post by centercourt400s on Sept 20, 2011 16:25:32 GMT -5
A problem for any new conference would be meeting the NCAA's requirements for an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament. Apparently there is a "continuity requirement" that for a conference to receive an automatic bid seven of its members must have played together for at least eight years. "I'm not sure how a new conference could meet the requirements if they haven't been in existence for at least eight years," Steve Mallonee (the NCAA's managing director of academic and membership affairs) said. "Right now this is all fair discussion that we really don't have answers to. How all of this realignment affects automatic qualifiers is something we have to watch." espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6996090/is-time-non-fbs-schools-big-east-unite-college-basketballBeing in a conference without an automatic bid would be a huge loss of prestige for all ex-Big East members.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Sept 20, 2011 16:33:21 GMT -5
(Hope this does not become a facilities thread ) A few other quick hitters on our potential new league: -Avoid calling it any variation of "The Catholic Conference". That will alienate a chunk of the country. If possible, add one or two members that are not Catholic schools and don't make it a point of focus in the league. Simply keeping the BE name if all the football schools jump ship is ideal. -Don't add more teams than we have to. 2 more teams for a 10 team league, play everybody twice would be great. No reason to go to 12, 14 or 16 right now. Doing so will just make the league smell more mid-majorish. -We MUST fight the mid-major label tooth and nail. We need to convince the world that we are, as Bando said in another thread, "a Basketball Major".... A high major basketball league without the football, not a mid-major basketball league. -When recruiting, sell this aspect. Sell kids on the fact that these schools (except ND) are basketball schools. At the BCS schools, football is king and the football players are the big men on campus. At our schools, we live and die with our hoops teams, and the basketball players are the undisputed stars. As a side note, look at the high school basketball ranks... Where do all the top basketball players go? That's right, to the private, Catholic schools. Smaller campus, better academics, better support system etc. Usually located in urban areas. Why can't college be similar? -Market the league as old school, tradition-oriented. All of these other leagues have emerged exclusively around greed and football. Our schools have kept our noses out of that nonsense. We'll be playing a lot of the same schools we've been playing for decades. Hype the Nova/Georgetown rivalry, the Georgetown/St. Johns history (sweater game etc.). Emphasize tradition and purity, the soul of the game, as a contrast to the hodgepodge, geographically sprawled and football-centric modern superconferences. -Hook in with an emerging tv network. I think one of the big reasons for fear about this league is that we won't be on tv. The superconferences will use football to leverage major deals with ESPN, who will then offer them all of the good timeslots for basketball as well. Fine. As I mentioned in another thread, lots of media outlets are looking for programming that people want/need to watch live, rather than on DVR, and that's creating demand for college sports (see the major contracts that have been given out to conferences in the last few years). NBC and Fox have been trying to get in on this action. One or both of these networks could find themselves on the outside with conferences seemingly consolidating. Might one of them roll the dice on a basketball league--one with terrific brand recognition (Big East) and some schools with national name appeal? Even TNT may be interested, as they are now involved with the NCAA tourney but don't show college hoops all year. In an ideal world maybe the NBA will go the way of the NHL after its lockout and we can encroach on some of that programming time. On top of that, we should be able to keep ties with local stations like MASN or SNY. Since the other BE powerplayers seem ACC bound, they can enjoy Raycom and their Sunday night games. For games that aren't going out nationally, the neo-BE should be able to use local outlets to get games shown in markets where it has teams. Supplement with a few national games on CBS or ESPN (OOC or otherwise) and we should have plenty of coverage. -Leverage the power of the internet (mentioned by SFHoya elsewhere). This is the direction media is heading. I'd like to explore ways to stream games, if television is impossible. Ultimately television and the internet are going to converge, and much of what you sit in your living room and watch on a tv will come from the web. If we can find a way to be pioneers/leaders in this emerging format like we were with ESPN and the rise of cable tv, we could see similar results. -Hold on for dear life to MSG. I've heard we've got it under contract a few more years. Gotta try to maintain it by living up to it. The first few years of the new conference will be crucial. If we're still putting 5 or more of our 10 teams in the dance, winning out of conference and getting our share of tv time, we'll be quite alright and maybe we can hang onto MSG. Obviously Cuse and UConn fill it better than any of the other schools left, but make them outbid us for it. If we lose MSG eventually, please stay out of Newark. Verizon, Wells Fargo or the new arena going up in Brooklyn would all be better bets. Maybe the new Brooklyn arena could be our new big stage. More as they come to me.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Sept 20, 2011 16:39:31 GMT -5
A problem for any new conference would be meeting the NCAA's requirements for an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament. Apparently there is a "continuity requirement" that for a conference to receive an automatic bid seven of its members must have played together for at least eight years. "I'm not sure how a new conference could meet the requirements if they haven't been in existence for at least eight years," Steve Mallonee (the NCAA's managing director of academic and membership affairs) said. "Right now this is all fair discussion that we really don't have answers to. How all of this realignment affects automatic qualifiers is something we have to watch." espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6996090/is-time-non-fbs-schools-big-east-unite-college-basketballBeing in a conference without an automatic bid would be a huge loss of prestige for all ex-Big East members. IIRC, this is our 7th year with Marquette and Depaul. If the 27 month's to leave thing holds up for one extra year, we're good. Even if it didn't, we'd just be out the autobid next season, correct? Obviously whoever won the conference tourney would be an NCAA lock anyway, but it'd just be sort of a weird parenthetical thing.
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Cambridge
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Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Sept 20, 2011 16:44:15 GMT -5
A problem for any new conference would be meeting the NCAA's requirements for an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament. Apparently there is a "continuity requirement" that for a conference to receive an automatic bid seven of its members must have played together for at least eight years. "I'm not sure how a new conference could meet the requirements if they haven't been in existence for at least eight years," Steve Mallonee (the NCAA's managing director of academic and membership affairs) said. "Right now this is all fair discussion that we really don't have answers to. How all of this realignment affects automatic qualifiers is something we have to watch." espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6996090/is-time-non-fbs-schools-big-east-unite-college-basketballBeing in a conference without an automatic bid would be a huge loss of prestige for all ex-Big East members. IIRC, this is our 7th year with Marquette and Depaul. If the 27 month's to leave thing holds up for one extra year, we're good. Even if it didn't, we'd just be out the autobid next season, correct? Obviously whoever won the conference tourney would be an NCAA lock anyway, but it'd just be sort of a weird parenthetical thing. They joined in 2005.
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Post by HometownHoya on Sept 20, 2011 16:46:01 GMT -5
All great points RB!
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Sept 20, 2011 16:51:44 GMT -5
I've said this before, but it bears repeating: a CYO league will be the beginning of the end of any major college basketball at Georgetown. With less TV revenue and declining local interest, Georgetown basketball will resemble that of Holy Cross. Why would Gtown basketball have to resemble Holy Cross in this scenario? Why not Xavier or Gonzaga?
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Post by aleutianhoya on Sept 20, 2011 16:52:10 GMT -5
The auto bid / years in conference rule is, like all things NCAA, subject to waiver. To not grant one to schools in this circumstance (that all came from "major" conferences no less) would be petty even by NCAA standards. In any event, it's not our biggest concern.
It's fascinating to me that UConn isn't even attending the meeting (or at least isn't attending at the highest levels which amounts to the same thing in terms of perception). Why? This certainly sends the message that they're gone, and perhaps they want to show the ACC just how committed they are, but the ACC doesn't care about that. The only reason it makes sense is if they're 100% assured of an ACC bid and by all accounts, that's just not the case. The ACC would drop them in a heartbeat if Texas and N.D. came calling. So, if you're willing to do this -- which tells the BE schools you're gone anyway -- why not at least come and listen, and be part of the planning, particularly if you need to crawl back in bed with them. You could say up front what everyone knows -- that your goal is an ACC bid but you'd be in the BE if it doesn't come. It's not like the others in the room are going to kick you out.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Sept 20, 2011 17:01:54 GMT -5
Whatever you call it, a 10-team conference with Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul, and let's say Butler, Xavier, and Dayton would have a lot of great basketball games during the season that basketball fans would want to see and would get 4 to 6 NCAA bids every year.
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CWS
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Post by CWS on Sept 20, 2011 17:03:49 GMT -5
Is there a NCAA limit to how many OOC games can be played? If we went to a smaller conference we'd have a lot more room in our schedule, ideally to schedule some big name schools. Hard, I know -- i.e., once everyone else's conference schedule starts, they'd have no space to schedule us; and, of course, hard to schedule anything at Verizon.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Sept 20, 2011 17:04:05 GMT -5
IIRC, this is our 7th year with Marquette and Depaul. If the 27 month's to leave thing holds up for one extra year, we're good. Even if it didn't, we'd just be out the autobid next season, correct? Obviously whoever won the conference tourney would be an NCAA lock anyway, but it'd just be sort of a weird parenthetical thing. They joined in 2005. Right, so: 1. '05-'06 2. '06-'07 3. '07-'08 4. '08-'09 5. '09-10 6. '10-11 (last year) 7. '11-12 (this year) 8. '12-'13 (next year)
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Bando
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I've got some regrets!
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Post by Bando on Sept 20, 2011 17:06:40 GMT -5
I'd like to associate myself with RBHoya's remarks.
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KennaHoya
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Post by KennaHoya on Sept 20, 2011 17:27:36 GMT -5
Once you get past all of the no-and-next-to-no chance options, I think RBHoya has hit where Georgetown will have to be. Go ahead, "explore" the ACC, hope that UCon and ND stay for more than a year or two, try to join the Ivy League, but tomorrow when you wake up and it does not happen . . . make the most out of where you are and your strengths. I really agree on avoiding any religious affiliation context for labeling the league, keeping the league at 10 (only add traditional basketball powers in the unlikely event they show up), and finding a network like Fox/FSN or NBC/Versus. I think the schools will have to market like RBHoya says, and commit real dollars to their coaches and basketball facilities (this is not a facilities discussion but a coaches/recruiting point).
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Sept 20, 2011 18:28:23 GMT -5
I agree with RBHoya's comments. I think the best way to get to that end result may be to sit still and let things happen around us. Let the football schools leave the Big East, and once they're gone simply add a couple of schools like Butler and Xavier to the remaining Big East. That way you keep the Big East name, the MSG contract, and the high-major reputation. Oh, and don't forget about those exit fees the football schools will have to pay to leave the Big East - splitting those with the remaining BE schools should take some of the sting away from this.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Sept 20, 2011 18:35:41 GMT -5
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CTHoya08
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Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Sept 20, 2011 18:45:20 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly with RB's post, and those following it.
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