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Post by daymondmyles on Dec 14, 2013 16:13:38 GMT -5
52, 22 and 10? That's ridiculous. How bad was the other team?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2013 16:20:07 GMT -5
Is this some sort of sick joke? We're really not going to offer a 6'9 shot-blocker that just went for 52, 22, and 10 in a game, is being recruited by Florida, and oh yeah, he's Alonzo Mourning's son?! He's a legitimate player. The fact that the Gators are recruiting him is validation enough for me. It almost feels like he's being disadvantaged for being Zo's son at this point, like we're actively avoiding the nepotism. I for one say that if you can easily land a 6'9 kid who's likely still growing, then you do it. We're not lighting the world on fire over here, and we need a future big man to protect the paint. This just doesn't make sense to me anymore, given that it doesn't seem that Trey is still a mid-major talent. There are a lot of top tier centers in the '15 class, and we're in the mix with quite a few of them. (more so than in past classes in my opinion.) Staff probably feels we have a good chance for getting a top 50 guy to play the pivot, especially if we can show josh smith's improvement under our system and use the IAC and a strong '14 and '15 class to build around. I don't know much about the Trey Mourning situation-- he seems to be a project center that is developing nicely -- but is still in the 3 star level. The 50 point game tells me he's in a ridiculously easy league more than it suggests he's a top level player. My sense is that the staff would love to have him as a walk-on but aren't ready to offer him a schollie. It has less to do with nepotism and more about who else do we have coming in. From Trey's side it's about how important is the prestige factor of getting a schollie versus walking-on and what are Trey's expectations for playing-time. Obviously Zo can pay for his education out of pocket so it's not about that per se. Whether or not Trey wants to play at the school his dad played at -- and remains a big-time figure -- is another issue. Pat Ewing Jr. didn't want to at first either. Either way a mystery prospect like Trey is usually a late signee so I wouldnt expect anything to happen for a while. That article I linked earlier made it sound like Florida was mildly interested not in hot pursuit. The philosophical question will be do the Hoyas try to get a one and done center to put around Peak-White-Copeland-Derrickson like Stone or the Greek guy or even Maker in '16 or do we push for an early decision from a guy like Cimino and hope Bradley Hayes is the center we need him to be in 2 years. I predict we wind up with something in between, probably Dickerson, and then we wind up having a project like Cimino or Trey as the back-up. I'd be fine with that....
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KirbyKeger
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Post by KirbyKeger on Dec 14, 2013 16:38:32 GMT -5
A much more level headed post than my own, Denny. As you said though, it's just not that likely that we secure one of the top tier centers in '15. We've been in on so many (Nerlens, Dakari, etc.), and we just can't seem to get the ball across the goal line. You might be right about Dickerson being the end result.
Regardless, I think we're in dire need of big man depth. Moses and Josh are both gone after next season at the latest, along with Mikael. sS of right now, that leaves us with only Hayes capable of playing the five. I'm pulling for Bradley, but he hasn't shown much to this point. I just don't like playing the waiting game with big men, only to be burned by top tier guys going to Kentucky. My hunch is that Trey will be better than our typical mystery-man spring signee. Worst case scenario, in three years, we'll all be angrily asking why we didn't pursue Trey Mourning. More likely scenario, we'll be asking why we didn't get more big man depth in place in case we didn't hit the home run.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2013 17:25:31 GMT -5
A much more level headed post than my own, Denny. As you said though, it's just not that likely that we secure one of the top tier centers in '15. We've been in on so many (Nerlens, Dakari, etc.), and we just can't seem to get the ball across the goal line. You might be right about Dickerson being the end result. Regardless, I think we're in dire need of big man depth. Moses and Josh are both gone after next season at the latest, along with Mikael. sS of right now, that leaves us with only Hayes capable of playing the five. I'm pulling for Bradley, but he hasn't shown much to this point. I just don't like playing the waiting game with big men, only to be burned by top tier guys going to Kentucky. My hunch is that Trey will be better than our typical mystery-man spring signee. Worst case scenario, in three years, we'll all be angrily asking why we didn't pursue Trey Mourning. More likely scenario, we'll be asking why we didn't get more big man depth in place in case we didn't hit the home run. Trust me, if Trey Mourning winds up starting for a final-four bound Florida team this whole board will be right there with you with righteous indignation. And I do think you have a good point about locking somebody up sooner rather than later to avoid the mystery meat we've been stuck with at center the last few recruiting cycles. I am a little more bullish on our chances of signing a quality big. There's more depth of talent in the next two classes, and we're involved with more of them than we have been before. According to my informal count here are the candidates: '14 Cimino Anas Mahmoud Michal Cekovsky Tim Rowe Zach Hane All these guys have been mentioned by EtomicB. They're all definitely diamonds in the rough if you will and I guess taking them depends on how you feel about risking a schollie on another project. I def hear what EtomicB is saying about depth. You have to measure that against being stuck with another Hayes for four years though or risking a Bolden-like transfer. If you think you can get a top big in '15 and a better backup then I'd say hold-off. If not, then yeah, Cimino makes a lot of sense. '15 Diamond Stone (I feel like things have cooled but we're still involved) Elijah Thomas (havent heard much one way or another in a bit, but he should still be a priority) Noah Dickerson (hearing some good things as he's already visited) Chance Commanche (Just getting involved now, we'll see) Georgios Papagiannis (Also just starting to get involved) Doral Moore (We've checked in on him a few times this fall. We're probably in decent shape here) Skal Labissiere (Not sure what our status is) '16 Thon Maker (everyone wants this kid, but we're in as good shape as can be this early on) anway, at the risk of repeating myself, I think we end up with dickerson from that list to be our center. A lineup of Crawford or Mann at PG, Peak at SG, White/Copeland/Derrickson at F and Dickerson at center will compete for banners. staff is close to making it happen.... I've seen some of these players, but not all. Am curious from some of the recruiting gurus/insiders about where we stand with some of these guys and whether I'm missing something.....
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Dec 14, 2013 18:45:37 GMT -5
Don't forget Sylvester Ogbonda '15 class..
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Dec 14, 2013 18:47:34 GMT -5
I know, it's not like GU hasn't taken projects before and helped develop them into good players. But the main thing is the defense.. Scratching my head over this one...
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 14, 2013 19:41:59 GMT -5
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Dec 14, 2013 21:11:27 GMT -5
The notion that we should recruit a player based on another school looking hard at them is the reason we ended up with Bolden. If the staff can't make their own determination based on their own viewing then we are hosed.
Either way I still say if he is a Mourning we offer him regardless. His father is a HOF and he is a legacy. End of discussion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2013 21:18:10 GMT -5
The notion that we should recruit a player based on another school looking hard at them is the reason we ended up with Bolden. If the staff can't make their own determination based on their own viewing then we are hosed. Either way I still say if he is a Mourning we offer him regardless. His father is a HOF and he is a legacy. End of discussion. ENJ, you don't think taking Trey and then having him sit the bench or even transfer out wouldnt cause bigger problems in the long-run? Not, saying you're wrong, just saying the staff needs to, and likely is, taking a very holistic view of this and is gonna try to make the best decision for the program. I do expect there will be a lot of transparency with Zo about their plans.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 14, 2013 23:26:27 GMT -5
The notion that we should recruit a player based on another school looking hard at them is the reason we ended up with Bolden. If the staff can't make their own determination based on their own viewing then we are hosed. Either way I still say if he is a Mourning we offer him regardless. His father is a HOF and he is a legacy. End of discussion. Disagree with the second part. Actually, I would consider it an insult to Alonzo to offer his son on Zo's behalf. Zo is involved with the university and, by all accounts, worked for everything he got. By offering his son a scholarship because he's Alonzo's son, in a weird way, devalues the scholarship that Alonzo earned if, in fact, the staff doesn't believe that Trey deserves one. Sentimentally, I truly hope that Trey ends up a Hoya and I hope he thrives. But I really don't like the idea of giving him a scholarship because his dad is a Hall of Famer and one of the all-time great Hoyas. Alonzo worked his butt off for both of those distinctions. And those are distinctions to be earned, not given.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 15, 2013 0:06:09 GMT -5
The notion that we should recruit a player based on another school looking hard at them is the reason we ended up with Bolden. If the staff can't make their own determination based on their own viewing then we are hosed. Amen. If Trey was given a schollie and didn't play well these same folks screaming for us to recruit him would be the first wanting him to be squeezed out of II's eight man rotation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2013 0:18:34 GMT -5
The notion that we should recruit a player based on another school looking hard at them is the reason we ended up with Bolden. If the staff can't make their own determination based on their own viewing then we are hosed. Amen. If Trey was given a schollie and didn't play well these same folks screaming for us to recruit him would be the first wanting him to be squeezed out of II's eight man rotation. Yup, agree with this. This is why I said the staff will very much make a decision based on all the factors, playing ability being the primary one....
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Dec 15, 2013 7:51:49 GMT -5
Are people really giving credibility to a "gator country" blog? They have no idea. Zo is a Trustee of Georgetown and a significant donor and ambassador for the school. He and his son are in DC on a regular basis. Both have visited the White House and met with Obama, with Zo playing golf with him recently in Florida. If Trey wants to come to Georgetown and be part of the team, he will do so. I guess that JTIII is simply being honest with them saying that he will need to earn playing time, while maybe other schools are giving him the standard "you are the greatest" pitch.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 15, 2013 11:21:47 GMT -5
It's possible that they are about winning. If they can save Georgetown a scholarship and Trey is really good that would effectively give the Hoyas an extra scholarship when he is here.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Dec 15, 2013 11:58:43 GMT -5
I feel you. But the point is...I'd take Trey over Moses although I know Moses has more experience....and I know Trey has a ton of work to do; like someone said, this smells of the Noah situation.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 15, 2013 12:43:32 GMT -5
A much more level headed post than my own, Denny. As you said though, it's just not that likely that we secure one of the top tier centers in '15. We've been in on so many (Nerlens, Dakari, etc.), and we just can't seem to get the ball across the goal line. You might be right about Dickerson being the end result. Regardless, I think we're in dire need of big man depth. Moses and Josh are both gone after next season at the latest, along with Mikael. sS of right now, that leaves us with only Hayes capable of playing the five. I'm pulling for Bradley, but he hasn't shown much to this point. I just don't like playing the waiting game with big men, only to be burned by top tier guys going to Kentucky. My hunch is that Trey will be better than our typical mystery-man spring signee. Worst case scenario, in three years, we'll all be angrily asking why we didn't pursue Trey Mourning. More likely scenario, we'll be asking why we didn't get more big man depth in place in case we didn't hit the home run. Trust me, if Trey Mourning winds up starting for a final-four bound Florida team this whole board will be right there with you with righteous indignation. And I do think you have a good point about locking somebody up sooner rather than later to avoid the mystery meat we've been stuck with at center the last few recruiting cycles. I am a little more bullish on our chances of signing a quality big. There's more depth of talent in the next two classes, and we're involved with more of them than we have been before. According to my informal count here are the candidates: '14 Cimino Anas Mahmoud Michal Cekovsky Tim Rowe Zach Hane All these guys have been mentioned by EtomicB. They're all definitely diamonds in the rough if you will and I guess taking them depends on how you feel about risking a schollie on another project. I def hear what EtomicB is saying about depth. You have to measure that against being stuck with another Hayes for four years though or risking a Bolden-like transfer. If you think you can get a top big in '15 and a better backup then I'd say hold-off. If not, then yeah, Cimino makes a lot of sense. '15 Diamond Stone (I feel like things have cooled but we're still involved) Elijah Thomas (havent heard much one way or another in a bit, but he should still be a priority) Noah Dickerson (hearing some good things as he's already visited) Chance Commanche (Just getting involved now, we'll see) Georgios Papagiannis (Also just starting to get involved) Doral Moore (We've checked in on him a few times this fall. We're probably in decent shape here) Skal Labissiere (Not sure what our status is) '16 Thon Maker (everyone wants this kid, but we're in as good shape as can be this early on) anway, at the risk of repeating myself, I think we end up with dickerson from that list to be our center. A lineup of Crawford or Mann at PG, Peak at SG, White/Copeland/Derrickson at F and Dickerson at center will compete for banners. staff is close to making it happen.... I've seen some of these players, but not all. Am curious from some of the recruiting gurus/insiders about where we stand with some of these guys and whether I'm missing something..... I think you're wrong when you state the staff is on more bigs than ever before. In 2012 & 13 the staff missed on Upshaw, Ochefu, T. Parker, Gavin Ware, Noel, Akoy Agua, Jimmy Taylor, Meeks, Dakari ect... In 2014 the staff went all in on Elbert and missed. They tried to make a hard push for Onuaku, that failed. They tried to get involved with Welsh too. After Onuaku & Welsh it's like the staff packed up for the year and that doesn't make any sense to me. That's a lot of misses over the past few season's to be so confident the staff will pull a top big in 2015. If Dickerson is your fall back plan then things are very scary on that front cause he'll have many many options. As I stated in another thread take a look at the other programs that were on Elbert's final list and you'll see that they all signed a big except G'town and all those kids aren't "projects" either. Hayes & Bolden were projects because they're not skilled at anything, they just have good attributes that could turn into something. Kids like Cimino or Cekovsky have actual skills but need to get bigger, stronger ect. I admit I'm biased, i just want to see the system run with a 5 man who can space the floor and be a change of pace from the low block guys. The program hasn't had that since Jeff left. As for Trey, he didn't look out of place in the short clip at the NBA top 100 clip and his mid-range game seems tight in the longer clip that was posted. He looks all of 6-9, he moves well too.. I think the staff should monitor him.. It does concern me that there's very little chatter about him out there and none by any of the top recruiting guys. I'd also be concerned about dealing that closely with "family", it worked out with PE Jr but that was after a transfer from another school. Zo's statement about how he thinks his son is capable of playing in the McDonalds game is a red flag to me.. I say tread lightly..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2013 13:59:14 GMT -5
Trust me, if Trey Mourning winds up starting for a final-four bound Florida team this whole board will be right there with you with righteous indignation. And I do think you have a good point about locking somebody up sooner rather than later to avoid the mystery meat we've been stuck with at center the last few recruiting cycles. I am a little more bullish on our chances of signing a quality big. There's more depth of talent in the next two classes, and we're involved with more of them than we have been before. According to my informal count here are the candidates: '14 Cimino Anas Mahmoud Michal Cekovsky Tim Rowe Zach Hane All these guys have been mentioned by EtomicB. They're all definitely diamonds in the rough if you will and I guess taking them depends on how you feel about risking a schollie on another project. I def hear what EtomicB is saying about depth. You have to measure that against being stuck with another Hayes for four years though or risking a Bolden-like transfer. If you think you can get a top big in '15 and a better backup then I'd say hold-off. If not, then yeah, Cimino makes a lot of sense. '15 Diamond Stone (I feel like things have cooled but we're still involved) Elijah Thomas (havent heard much one way or another in a bit, but he should still be a priority) Noah Dickerson (hearing some good things as he's already visited) Chance Commanche (Just getting involved now, we'll see) Georgios Papagiannis (Also just starting to get involved) Doral Moore (We've checked in on him a few times this fall. We're probably in decent shape here) Skal Labissiere (Not sure what our status is) '16 Thon Maker (everyone wants this kid, but we're in as good shape as can be this early on) anway, at the risk of repeating myself, I think we end up with dickerson from that list to be our center. A lineup of Crawford or Mann at PG, Peak at SG, White/Copeland/Derrickson at F and Dickerson at center will compete for banners. staff is close to making it happen.... I've seen some of these players, but not all. Am curious from some of the recruiting gurus/insiders about where we stand with some of these guys and whether I'm missing something..... I think you're wrong when you state the staff is on more bigs than ever before. In 2012 & 13 the staff missed on Upshaw, Ochefu, T. Parker, Gavin Ware, Noel, Akoy Agua, Jimmy Taylor, Meeks, Dakari ect... In 2014 the staff went all in on Elbert and missed. They tried to make a hard push for Onuaku, that failed. They tried to get involved with Welsh too. After Onuaku & Welsh it's like the staff packed up for the year and that doesn't make any sense to me. That's a lot of misses over the past few season's to be so confident the staff will pull a top big in 2015. If Dickerson is your fall back plan then this things are very scary on that front cause he'll have many many options. As I stated in another thread take a look at the other programs that were on Elbert's final list and you'll see that they all signed a big except G'town and all these kids aren't "projects" either. Hayes & Bolden were projects because they're not skilled at anything, they just have good attributes that could turn into something. Kids like Cimino or Cekovsky have actual skills but need to get bigger, stronger ect. I admit I'm biased, i just want to see the system run with a 5 man who can space the floor and be a change of pace from the low block guys. The program hasn't had that since Jeff left. As for Trey, he didn't look out of place in the short clip at the NBA top 100 clip and his mid-range game seems tight in the longer clip that was posted. He looks all of 6-9, he moves well too.. I think the staff should monitor him.. It does concern me that there's very little chatter about him out there and none by any of the top recruiting guys. I'd also be concerned about dealing that closely with "family", it worked out with PE Jr but that was after a transfer from another school. Zo's statement about how he thinks his son is capable of playing in the McDonalds game is a red flag to me.. I say tread lightly.. Why don't I revise my statement to say I'm more confident in the current recruiters to land a big than I was before... Agree with pretty much all the rest. (Think I made pretty much the same points on Trey)
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 15, 2013 14:59:16 GMT -5
Agree, denny. Let's give the new staff a chance to hit or miss on the top C talent of the next classes. With all the head coaching changes in college bball, I just hope this staff sticks together for a nice number of years.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Dec 15, 2013 16:17:24 GMT -5
How exactly would he save us a scholarship? If other schools are recruting him, isn't he a counter?
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Dec 15, 2013 16:44:35 GMT -5
The notion that we should recruit a player based on another school looking hard at them is the reason we ended up with Bolden. If the staff can't make their own determination based on their own viewing then we are hosed. Either way I still say if he is a Mourning we offer him regardless. His father is a HOF and he is a legacy. End of discussion. ENJ, you don't think taking Trey and then having him sit the bench or even transfer out wouldnt cause bigger problems in the long-run? Not, saying you're wrong, just saying the staff needs to, and likely is, taking a very holistic view of this and is gonna try to make the best decision for the program. I do expect there will be a lot of transparency with Zo about their plans. First off does he want to be a Hoya? If yes then you offer him a scholly. Ewing should never have been allowed to wear another jersey. Don't make the same mistake here.
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