FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 29, 2011 12:14:45 GMT -5
This is a very...curious...development. Think that's the right word.
A few disclosures/caveats here: (1) I'm on the board of the Hoya Hoop Club and sometimes write/Tweet things on their behalf; (2) I don't speak here for either the HHC or the Ticket Office...if you want definitive answers, the Ticket Office is who to call...my comments are based on things I've heard in the past and where possible can confirm to be true; (3) Also, important point: the HHC board doesn't have anything to do w/ ticket pricing to my knowledge.
Okay...
To add to what's been said, I have heard on multiple occasions from Steve Alleva that for certain sections of the Verizon Center, there is greater demand for seats than there are seats available in a given year. As you can imagine, the good, center of the court seats don't turn over as often, and people are frequently looking to upgrade.
You'll probably (I don't have any ticket info in front of me) notice that those donation levels attached to sections are minimum donation levels. So if, for instance, you're in a $500 section, that's the minimum donation required to keep that seat if you have it.
That being said, Steve had noted previously that many people in the good seats at the Verizon Center are in fact paying, and have paid for years, well beyond the minimum level required. Somebody in a $1000 seat may in fact be paying $1500, $2000, even $5000 a year. Unclear whether they do it because they can afford it and want to make that donation, or because they originally acquired it for that amount and kept paying yearly, either by choice or agreement as a condition of originally acquiring the seat.
As others have noted, there is a "wait list"--unclear if it's written somewhere or not, but generally demand >>> supply for premium seats. Thus, if someone is willing to pay $2000 for an open $1000 seat, that's who they'll seek out. Indeed, it appears from stories in this thread they are approaching people with a certain $$$ amount in mind to upgrade.
I can offer one anecdote that might add to this saga: my girlfriend told me yesterday that several of our friends are moving their seats across their court (a Young Alum section) into my section (118...a mix of YA and regular, but still $50 donation level). They are not being charged any kind of premium to upgrade.
Leads me to believe that the 5-10x figure being quoted people likely has to do with the scarcity/desirability of the specific seat(s) being requested. Perhaps those tickets were previously held by someone paying at that level. Perhaps the Ticket Office is coming up with a number that...though we don't have access to all the data...is actually "market value" in that limited marketplace. Maybe the Ticket Office is pulling a number out of their hat.
In any case, it still seems really steep for a one-time donation.
We (the HHC board) heard a presentation recently from the Ticket Office on the new renewal brochure and renewal procedures this year. Upgrading seats generally as a topic didn't come up, that I recall. I do know, as I said above, from past remarks that what I said above should be largely accurate.
The differing explanations given to the posters above do seem to confuse the matter. My thought is someone should ask the Ticket Office directly and maybe even suggest a formal reason/explanation be written and posted somewhere in the literature.
Unfortunate minor public relations kerfuffle here. Really too bad, from what I gathered hearing from the Ticket Office, they're taking several steps this year aimed at improving their division of labor, customer service, and capacity to do bigger and better things. Think those will come to bear, and hopefully this will be sorted out.
One side point that's relevant: this is either the 5th or 6th consecutive season, IIRC, that has come w/o an across the board increase in donation levels. The vast majority of per-game ticket prices for season ticket holders either stayed the same or went up $1/game (some of the courtside seats went up either $5 or $10...can't remember). When it comes to cost per game of a season ticket, with donations factored in, we're still in the middle of the pack in the Big East.
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turbohoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 320
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Post by turbohoya on Jun 29, 2011 12:38:48 GMT -5
That Gtown basketball is EXTREMELY cheap vs. peers is a known fact - if you don't believe me try to buy seats similar to your Hoya ones at many schools we hope to compete with and you will find that what we charge is on the very low end. I once had a Lousville guy sit next to me at Verizon who told me that his donation level for that type of seat was over 10 times what I have to donate to hoop club...
That said, punishing faithful fans looking to upgrade is beyond moronic. Looking at the donation chart it's pretty clear that we don't have enough season ticket fans to fill lower bowl consistently anywyas so I am not sure what the ticket offic is trying to do keeping people in lower paying seats... Shouldn't they be incentivizing, like first year half off your donation if you commit to say 3 years type deal?
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by skyhoya on Jun 29, 2011 13:50:34 GMT -5
I have a pair available that I advertiswd earlier in 112 at the $750 donation level. I will resell to loyal HOYAs fans at my cost. I bought these seats to control the number of opposing fans next to me. PM me.
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gujake
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by gujake on Jun 29, 2011 14:20:36 GMT -5
I think it is when you want to move up to a higher donation level, but of course all of the information comes over the phone and doesn't appear to be written down ... so who knows what the policy is. Yeah, the policy itself is debatable. But not having the policy written down and publicly available somewhere is pretty inexcusable in my opinion. So is giving different explanations about the policy.
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Post by westendhoya on Jun 29, 2011 17:51:38 GMT -5
If the home schedule on Casual is legit I wouldn't get too down about it...
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 29, 2011 18:35:54 GMT -5
That said, punishing faithful fans looking to upgrade is beyond moronic. Looking at the donation chart it's pretty clear that we don't have enough season ticket fans to fill lower bowl consistently anywyas so I am not sure what the ticket offic is trying to do keeping people in lower paying seats... Shouldn't they be incentivizing, like first year half off your donation if you commit to say 3 years type deal? I agree with everything you're saying about the need to reward/encourage long-term (and future long-term) fans, and to get more Hoya fans into better seats w/ higher donation levels. Both highly desirable goals. That being said, there's an important distinction here. You note (correctly) that we seem to have trouble filling the lower bowl. We sell a lot of season tickets, to be sure, but a certain chunk are actually bought by out-of-towners who only come on weekends, scalpers, opposing fans looking for one game/selling the rest. There's also a decent amount of changeover in the Young Alum section (including mine)--recent grads tend to change locations/careers/financial situations a lot. But that's the lower bowl as a whole--$7,500 minimum donation down to $50 minimum. Two stories in this thread (one told to me second hand) indicate other folks aren't being charged any extra to move, upgrade, or add season tickets. The original case in question though involves the $750 and $1000 sections...which includes just the lower half of 101, 110, 112, and 121 (the sections behind and across from each bench). Looking at the ticket donation brochure, there are only 16 rows of $1000 minimum donation seats in the Verizon Center. Considering the quality of the seats, the limited total number, and making an educated guess into the demographics of season ticket holders...I'm guessing that very few in these sections become available each season. So there's low supply. As I noted above, I've heard many times from the horse's mouth that many people in the higher-end sections are donating well beyond the minimum level. I've also heard in past years that those premium seats aren't going to be available at the minimum level. The other thing to keep in mind: Georgetown's season ticket base jumped a lot since JTIII was hired. There are about 4 sections full of Young Alumni that are 6 years or less removed from Georgetown, and many fans that came back or came for the first time since 2004. As these folks now earn more money and look to upgrade, there's going to be a bigger demand for the more expensive seats, but very little supply. Hence the markups. I still think the costs being quoted are rather steep, and "not a good look" from a PR standpoint. But I kinda get why it exists. Of course, taking this a few years down the road... We haven't increased donation levels much in several years. I see the natural result of this glut of newer fans in $50-$300 sections looking to upgrade w/ nowhere to go b/c of limited supply being... ...in a few years, those $50-$300 sections will become $200-$500 sections. I know I've resigned myself that the clock is ticking on 118's extremely cheap going price (I sit in Row A for $50 a year going on six years now).
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 29, 2011 18:42:19 GMT -5
But not having the policy written down and publicly available somewhere is pretty inexcusable in my opinion. Now that I do have the ticket brochure in front of me: On the inside, top of the center page, last bullet (it's directly above the color code for which sections are which donation level), this is the text: "The per-seat donation levels outlined below are the minimum gifts required for both new and renewing season ticket holders. For premium seats, however, new season ticket packages and upgrades may require an additional, larger one-time donation. For more information on premium seats, please call (202) 687-HOYA."I promise I'm not trying to be an apologist for the ticket office here. ;D Truth be told, I've had this brochure for two weeks and tonight was the first time I noticed that disclaimer. I do think, generally, that more information and more outreach/communications to fans is always better. I pick up some info here and there from my limited role in things Hoop Club related, so I try to share where it helps or provides another perspective. Hope it's useful.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Jun 29, 2011 20:14:01 GMT -5
Thanks FL, the info is most definitely useful. That disclaimer does make me feel somewhat better. I had not noticed it either.
That being said, I do wish they would just be more transparent about the policy. The "may require" part makes me wonder if they want to keep the policy flexible so they can extract as much money as possible from the premium seats. Is it subjective based on the seat and/or the person asking for the seat? Or are there specific rules for certain seats/sections? Are different people in the ticket office allowed to interpret the policy differently? Do they start with a certain donation $ amount and then decrease it if nobody bites? Are friends of the ticket office able to upgrade without paying the additional donation? There is no way to tell.
So, when you surprise a loyal fan by asking him to pay an additional $7500 for a seat, and then you give him a shoddy explanation that seems to differ from the actual reason, I can certainly understand why he would be Editeded.
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jun 29, 2011 21:15:20 GMT -5
Thanks FL, the info is most definitely useful. That disclaimer does make me feel somewhat better. I had not noticed it either. That being said, I do wish they would just be more transparent about the policy. The "may require" part makes me wonder if they want to keep the policy flexible so they can extract as much money as possible from the premium seats. Is it subjective based on the seat and/or the person asking for the seat? Or are there specific rules for certain seats/sections? Are different people in the ticket office allowed to interpret the policy differently? Do they start with a certain donation $ amount and then decrease it if nobody bites? Are friends of the ticket office able to upgrade without paying the additional donation? There is no way to tell. So, when you surprise a loyal fan by asking him to pay an additional $7500 for a seat, and then you give him a shoddy explanation that seems to differ from the actual reason, I can certainly understand why he would be Editeded. Come now, Jake. Surely you know by now that transparency is not exactly the SOP at Georgetown Just go ahead and assume it's somewhat akin to preferred admissions: the answer to all of the above is "it depends." It depends on who, it depends on where, it depends on how many, and so on. Opaqueness makes it that much more difficult for Big Shot B to call angrily and demand that he get X tickets at price Y because Big Shot A did. And then Big Shot C will get wind of this and insist he's way more important and has been a Georgetown fan for longer and his cousin was in the DeGioias wedding and his uncle was on the SFS Board of Visitors for 12YEARS and he had better get these tickets or... In other words, while the lack of transparency frequently drives me insane, I can't say that I don't understand it.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Jun 29, 2011 22:34:03 GMT -5
Haha, of course. And sure, I understand there are benefits to being opaque.
But there are also risks. If you hide something from your customers, you have to know you are going to surprise and upset some people when they find out about it. That is especially true when it involves a significant amount of money. And, if you compound that problem by offering a poor explanation, you get a situation like you find here with the policy being revealed and discussed on Hoyatalk.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Jun 30, 2011 6:16:39 GMT -5
good point s dhall re the minimum has not been raised for years and this policy which seems to be clear in the brochure seems to be a key point in keeping the minimums the same.. florida you make good points which seem fair and balanced as our your game reports..and lastly as someone pointed out to me the MAIN PERSON who has kept us at least up and raised more money for our BBALL TEAM is steve alleva SOOOO ill not be moving but there is some logic here and florida and others point that we have like the cheapest seats in the big east sad but true its all about supporting coach and team soooo goh hoyas glad this discussion occurrred to make some good points on both sides go hoyas and KENNER IS FREAKINGFREE AND STARTS JULY 2ND GO HOYAS ps and our players DONT get paid for kenner OR the regular season neither nope go hoyas
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Jun 30, 2011 6:17:40 GMT -5
ps im on the hoop board and wasnt clear on this policy either but its now in print in the brochure sooo gohoyas
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rosslynhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rosslynhoya on Jun 30, 2011 7:40:25 GMT -5
I don't want to sound overly critical (for once) but I don't think there's any way a normal person would read FLHoya's emboldened statement and think that "premium seats" includes everything in the lower half of 100 and 101. Floor seats, of course, and maybe the rows immediately behind the bench, but designating over 500 other - very good - seats as "premium" seems fairly weaselly to me.
This whole situation really seems like a hustle to squeeze a little extra cash out of an unsuspecting mark. If you turn down the pitch and boost your giving level but refuse to make a super-donation, do you really still get stuck sitting behind donors who are giving significantly less than you?
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Post by thejerseytornado on Jun 30, 2011 7:53:48 GMT -5
i consider myself normal and would say that there are at least 500 "premium" seats in an arena with over 15,000 seats, and that includes more than the rows behind the bench (which aren't necessarily that good. they're behind the bench where people stand + being so close makes it hard to see action on the other end of the floor. depends on what you want).
not to defend the policy, per se, but that part of its isn't out of the realm of possibility.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jun 30, 2011 8:53:28 GMT -5
Had a meeting with a guy who is a UK alum this morning. Hoops came up. He mentioned the price to get into the lower bowl of Rupp is $500,000. Then the tickets are $300 per game.
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by skyhoya on Jun 30, 2011 9:16:19 GMT -5
But going to a UK game, you can usually see several lottery picks perform. @ a GU game you get to watch the modified Princeton with true scholar athletes.
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jester
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Post by jester on Jun 30, 2011 9:41:01 GMT -5
UK basketball has and likely will continue to be of high quality (athletes, if nothing else). Gtown has been boom or bust. I am guessing you would get a lower bowl and make up your cost by scalping tickets.
On the other hand - 7500 is a bargain! Buy your Hoyas low now!
Realistically there is much more to do in DC than Lexington and I doubt even with a Final Four product tickets reach that price - but clearly we have gotten to the point where there is a market for charging premiums - which reflects the frustration when the team is good enough you want to take advantage of it, but inconsistent enough and struggled only six yrs ago that it still remains unfathomable to others.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jun 30, 2011 11:13:19 GMT -5
In Washington, you take clients to Redskins/Wizards/Capitals/Nationals games. Your company/law firm/Evil Lobbying Cabal has season tickets to some or all of those. Far fewer do that with Georgetown basketball.
In Lexington, your company/law firm/Evil Lobbying Cabal (Kentucky state capitol is <30 miles from Lexington) gets seats at UK basketball games.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jun 30, 2011 13:16:46 GMT -5
In Washington, you take clients to Redskins/Wizards/Capitals/Nationals games. Your company/law firm/Evil Lobbying Cabal has season tickets to some or all of those. Far fewer do that with Georgetown basketball. In Lexington, your company/law firm/Evil Lobbying Cabal (Kentucky state capitol is <30 miles from Lexington) gets seats at UK basketball games. Fair enough, no other game in town, that's a real possibility. But are there that many state lobbying firms/corporate HQs in Kentucky with $1 mil to drop on two seats, $2mil on 4? I have no idea, there may be. Horse racing, tobacco, bourbon, sure. I have a buddy who is the lobbyist for Kentucky Medical Assn. (docs) and he's never talked about going to a game (I assume they don't have tix, could very well be wrong). IMO, there are probably a fair amount of actual UK alums dropping that $. And also, IMO- Hoya basketball is a better product than 3 of those DC teams, despite our late season struggles the last 3 years. (Caps currently excepted, perhaps Wiz and Nats making strides.) Hoya basketball has more tradition than 3 of those teams (Skins currently excepted, though as noted in another thread, Snyder is doing his best to destroy that brand). So, in this cost conscious era, why isn't Georgetown Basketball a more frequent choice? It's a good entertainment value. I would think we already have a fair amount of firms that own season tickets (anyone know if that info is available?). Those of you who are at firms with tickets at other venues, is something that ever gets discussed? Just curious. Agreed DC and Lexington could be apples and [insert other fruit here, I refuse to say it], but it would be interesting to see if we could improve our market share for the corporate entertainment dollar. Money for the practice facility (to say nothing about endowing the remaining 12 scholarships) is going to have to come from somewhere.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by mapei on Jun 30, 2011 18:02:34 GMT -5
I do not recall getting my invoice for renewal yet. Has everyone else received theirs? If mine just got misplaced or misdelievered or something, is there a quick fix on the web to make sure my required deposit is submitted on time?
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